MB Madaera
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Chris Madaera
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Keelan Parham
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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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'Say It Ain't So, Joe'
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ATP 4 Vitality

"Say it ain't so, Joe," so wrote Charley Owens of the Chicago Daily News in 1920. The Chicago White Sox baseball team had lost the World Series in 1919 to the Cincinnati Reds. Shoeless Joe Jackson, one of baseball's greatest left-handed hitters, along with seven other White Sox players were accused of accepting $5,000 each to throw the World Series. Everywhere fans of baseball had trouble fathoming what these players had done. The predominant reaction was utter disbelief.

I had a similar feeling of disbelief when I read this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/27690566

I go way back with negative (eccentric) training. I read with glee all of Arthur Jones's articles on eccentric training. I believed him. I also believed Ellington Darden's many books that included eccentric training. I promoted eccentric training. I practiced eccentric training. I dismissed Renex's anti-eccentric articles because they lacked facts and logic. John Little once wrote he got similar result with several types of training techniques including eccentric only training, but his best results came from Power Factor training. Then, I heard Luke Carlson state clearly that he had produced verified study results that show eccentric training is no better than regular training. His study is included. I surmised that "pulse reps" use more ATP energy due to more contractions per unit time, and thus result in more fat loss due to higher energy consumption.

"The Times They Are A-Changin'

Bob Dylan
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
"Say it ain't so, Joe," so wrote Charley Owens of the Chicago Daily News in 1920. The Chicago White Sox baseball team had lost the World Series in 1919 to the Cincinnati Reds. Shoeless Joe Jackson, one of baseball's greatest left-handed hitters, along with seven other White Sox players were accused of accepting $5,000 each to throw the World Series. Everywhere fans of baseball had trouble fathoming what these players had done. The predominant reaction was utter disbelief.

I had a similar feeling of disbelief when I read this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/27690566

I go way back with negative (eccentric) training. I read with glee all of Arthur Jones's articles on eccentric training. I believed him. I also believed Ellington Darden's many books that included eccentric training. I promoted eccentric training. I practiced eccentric training. I dismissed Renex's anti-eccentric articles because they lacked facts and logic. John Little once wrote he got similar result with several types of training techniques including eccentric only training, but his best results came from Power Factor training. Then, I heard Luke Carlson state clearly that he had produced verified study results that show eccentric training is no better than regular training. His study is included. I surmised that "pulse reps" use more ATP energy due to more contractions per unit time, and thus result in more fat loss due to higher energy consumption.

"The Times They Are A-Changin'

Bob Dylan


---Scott ---
In the first place, If you believe for a minute that pro sports aren't rigged then and now god help you. Like the super bowl wasn't rigged to make for a great ending. Like pro wrestling is the only fraud, ha ha.?
So they talked about the Benefits of negative way back and now you see an article about atp or some such slop and now all they said back then was fake??? Concentric and eccentric movements are all very useful. If you haven't figured that out on your own through trial and error over the years you never really lifted.
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Average Al

It is pretty well established that eccentrics are very good for making your muscles sore. Valid or not, people often use soreness in the days after a workout as an indicator of how good the workout was. If you buy into that, it would be pretty easy to convince yourself that eccentric emphasize training was superior to other approaches.
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Crotalus

If you believe for a minute that pro sports aren't rigged then and now god help you. Like the super bowl wasn't rigged to make for a great ending.

I remember one year one team was up 3-1 in the World Series and mentioned to my Dad how the one team could wrap it up that night in just five games.

He looked at me like I was nuts.

" You don't think it's going to end tonight do you ?? It's going to go seven games .... do you have any idea how much hot dog, beer and pretzel money they'll lose, not to mention the shirts and other bullshit they sell .... besides the parking fees if goes five games instead of seven ? " The series went seven games, LOL.

Another time we were watching a game and a player missed a seemingly easy out, resulting in his team losing the important game . I mentioned that error probably cost him the MVP that year and probably they're chance at the championship. He responded " ... but just think how much he made for missing that ball ! "

I thought he was out of his mind then but now knowing how corrupt everything is, I hate to think he was probably right.

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HDLou

Something you aren't factoring in with negative only training is the extra toll it takes on the body's recover which is something that wasn't done if the study you posted. You cant trained as frequently with negative only as you can with a traditional positive/negative training and expect good results.
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g0ld3nuncw

North Carolina, USA

Conspiracy theorist please stop. Major sports are obviously very profitable. The only way they could become unprofitable is for the public to lose confidence that the games are legit. So all these games have been 'fixed'? And in all these years and all of the people that it would take to pull off such an act, no one has come out on 60 minutes and told how it all happens? Not saying a fight or tennis match is not occasionally fixed, (even college basketball occasionally),individuals can be bought off, but pro team sports simply have too much to lose to employ rigging outcomes. The NFL is multi billion $ industry for goodness sakes.
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Ellington Darden

I believe that negative repetitions, in their many forms, have a huge place in strength training and bodybuilding. I will justify it all in my new book, but I still don't have a publisher behind it.

Ellington
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Average Al

Ellington Darden wrote:
I believe that negative repetitions, in their many forms, have a huge place in strength training and bodybuilding. I will justify it all in my new book, but I still don't have a publisher behind it.

Ellington


What will the main theme be for the new book?
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Ellington Darden

Average Al wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
I believe that negative repetitions, in their many forms, have a huge place in strength training and bodybuilding. I will justify it all in my new book, but I still don't have a publisher behind it.

Ellington


What will the main theme be for the new book?


How to get dramatic muscular growth by combining old and new negative training techniques.

Ellington

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DSears

I proved the value of eccentrics, at least to myself, a long time ago. I was in my early 20's and coaching high school basketball at a rural school with very little weight training equipment. I had used Nautilus in college and really believed in it. I built several pieces of equipment at my dad's machine shop so we'd have something to use. One of the machines was a knock off of the Nautilus hip and back but with a fused arm instead of being duo-poly. It had more friction than I wanted so I trained by lifting as much as possible on the positive and having my training partner climb on the weights to add about 175 more pounds of negative load.

After several weeks of that training, combined with sprints and a lot of time in the gym, my jumping exploded. I put at least 6 inches on my vertical jump and could dunk with a two foot jump at a height of about 6'1". I had tried almost every technique known to man to improve my jump and that was the only one that made that much difference. I had used the standard Nautilus duo-poly hip and back for two years and it had improved my jumping a little but not that much.

When I left that job I didn't have anywhere to store the machine so I gave it to a friend. As soon as I quit doing that movement and emphasizing the eccentrics my jumping went back to where it had always been.
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ATP 4 Vitality

https://www.hindawi.com/...ri/2015/193741/


Taken word for word in the conclusion:


"Eccentric exercise is characterized by high force generation and low energy expenditure as compared to concentric and isometric exercises"

Notice the "low energy expenditure"

This is a fact.

Test this for yourself.....do a slow 15 second positive followed by a 15 second eccentric....but....stop midway and start doing pulse reps. You will quickly F-E-E-L fatigue set in much more quickly. These pulse reps, much like reps of most professional bb's, use more ATP per unit time, and cause more lactate to be produced.

Turn & Burn
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NewYorker

New York, USA

"I surmised that 'pulse reps' use more ATP energy due to more contractions per unit time, and thus result in more fat loss due to higher energy consumption. "

One of the main premises of bodybuilding is that fat loss is achieved indirectly through increases in muscle mass and not directly.

If you want to lose fat directly by burning more energy, then jog. Never
heard of a pulse contraction. Doesn't sound like much fun, but might get you avoided at the gym.

Eccentric training is worth a try as part of your fitness routine. If you can do it safely. (and that's a big if)
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ATP 4 Vitality

NewYorker wrote:
"I surmised that 'pulse reps' use more ATP energy due to more contractions per unit time, and thus result in more fat loss due to higher energy consumption. "

One of the main premises of bodybuilding is that fat loss is achieved indirectly through increases in muscle mass and not directly.


Typical change the subject debate tactic of redirecting the attention to another subject area. I implied that increased ATP usage might lead to more fat loss as COMPARED to eccentric reps, but no one really knows.


If you want to lose fat directly by burning more energy, then jog.


Wrong... every heard of a diet.....bb's have been using this for a long time which eliminates the need for burning more energy/ATP. A proper diet will trump any rep system for fat loss.



Never heard of a pulse contraction. Doesn't sound like much fun, but might get you avoided at the gym.


Ever seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=CK5JklIsaRg




Eccentric training is worth a try as part of your fitness routine. If you can do it safely. (and that's a big if)


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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

If you want to lose weight, don't jog or do pulse reps --- just put less stuff in your piehole.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Crotalus wrote:
If you believe for a minute that pro sports aren't rigged then and now god help you. Like the super bowl wasn't rigged to make for a great ending.

I remember one year one team was up 3-1 in the World Series and mentioned to my Dad how the one team could wrap it up that night in just five games.

He looked at me like I was nuts.

" You don't think it's going to end tonight do you ?? It's going to go seven games .... do you have any idea how much hot dog, beer and pretzel money they'll lose, not to mention the shirts and other bullshit they sell .... besides the parking fees if goes five games instead of seven ? " The series went seven games, LOL.

Another time we were watching a game and a player missed a seemingly easy out, resulting in his team losing the important game . I mentioned that error probably cost him the MVP that year and probably they're chance at the championship. He responded " ... but just think how much he made for missing that ball ! "

I thought he was out of his mind then but now knowing how corrupt everything is, I hate to think he was probably right.



===Scott==
Everything is corrupt these days from sports right up to the top of government only they are much better at making it seem legit.People are stupider than ever, "gee I saw it on the internet so it must be true!"
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Dan_The_man

The internet in general isn't as good as it once was since it's gone mainstream. In the late 90s early naughty's it was great. There were so many different search engines, chat mediums, everything. Now it's a lot more controlled.
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NewYorker

New York, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
"I surmised that 'pulse reps' use more ATP energy due to more contractions per unit time, and thus result in more fat loss due to higher energy consumption. "

One of the main premises of bodybuilding is that fat loss is achieved indirectly through increases in muscle mass and not directly.


Typical change the subject debate tactic of redirecting the attention to another subject area. I implied that increased ATP usage might lead to more fat loss as COMPARED to eccentric reps, but no one really knows.


If you want to lose fat directly by burning more energy, then jog.

Wrong... every heard of a diet.....bb's have been using this for a long time which eliminates the need for burning more energy/ATP. A proper diet will trump any rep system for fat loss.



Never heard of a pulse contraction. Doesn't sound like much fun, but might get you avoided at the gym.

Ever seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=CK5JklIsaRg




Eccentric training is worth a try as part of your fitness routine. If you can do it safely. (and that's a big if)



LOL ... I am not debating and have no ax to grind. Just pointing out some facts.

How do you burn calories through exercise without ATP usage.

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ATP 4 Vitality

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/12580660


Proof that rep speed matters as regards ATP utilization and lactate production.

Quote:

"Total net energy expenditure from oxidative processes was 45% higher for the Tradition resistance training than SuperSlow. The significant post exercise lactate difference was almost 2 times greater following the Traditional than after the SuperSlow."


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S.M.Punisher

My working (unscientific) conclusion for the moment is:

Partial reps (mostly in the bottom to mid range) for pump / sarcoplasmic growth at high frequency (high metabolic stress);

Full range / negative only for strength / myofibrillar growth at low frequency (high force/tension).

Not mutually exclusive. And supersetting partial-rep sets with different exercises and zones allows for training a muscle across its full range anyway.
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ATP 4 Vitality

g0ld3nuncw wrote:
Conspiracy theorist please stop. Major sports are obviously very profitable. The only way they could become unprofitable is for the public to lose confidence that the games are legit. So all these games have been 'fixed'? And in all these years and all of the people that it would take to pull off such an act, no one has come out on 60 minutes and told how it all happens? Not saying a fight or tennis match is not occasionally fixed, (even college basketball occasionally),individuals can be bought off, but pro team sports simply have too much to lose to employ rigging outcomes. The NFL is multi billion $ industry for goodness sakes.


Facts:

World Cup soccer is without a doubt the biggest sport in the world. World Cup soccer dwarfs NFL football.

World Cup soccer might be the most corrupt sport in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...corruption_case

The only rival for soccer might be the game of world politics. Too bad they can not square off in the ring.

Logic:

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything"

Mark Twain
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

. So all these games have been 'fixed'?

==Scott==
You are right, not every game is fixed. There are some games that just aren't worth bothering with. There's not alot of money to be made betting on who wins most micro pee wee T-ball games, ha ha
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ATP 4 Vitality

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...icles/22328004/


Brad Schoenfeld writes:

"HOW SLOW IS TOO SLOW"

"The only study to directly assess muscle growth in superslow versus traditional training supports this hypothesis. Over a six-week study period, a traditional-speed group increased muscle cross-sectional area by 39 percent compared to only 11 percent in a group performing reps at a tempo of 10 seconds up, four seconds down. (see above study) These results held true despite an almost fivefold greater time under tension for the superslow group."

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