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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Ellington Darden

Spud,

Generally, you've done a great job of describing the nine principles of HIT. And yes, intensity and form are the two that throw most trainees for a loop. But what I was also trying to get across in "The Secret" was the fact that almost no one can get an accurate assessment of what's happening to his body during a workout, much less back off and clearly see his own physique as it actually is. We all tend to have distorted views on both of these factors. So even if you had all nine HIT principles (including intensity and form) completely mastered, you could still be significantly short of your physical potential.

Once again, we all need help.

Ellington
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jack32

timwolf wrote:
Dr. Darden,

Since I live in Pennsylvania, coming to Orlando would be out of the question.

I live about sixty miles from Main Line Health and Fitness in Bryn Mawr. Would you recommend Roger Schwab or one of his staff to help me with the four elements you stated? I have always wanted to have someone very knowledgeable take me through a true HIT workout. Having someone accurately assess what I truly need would be even better.

Thanks!

Tim


Tim,
I train at Roger's and have done part time instructional work as well on the weekends.
If you're going to venture to Roger's facility & be trained 1 on 1, be sure to secure the services of John Parr.

I've known John for some time and can say that he will do a great job w/ you.

He competed back in the early 90s and trained under Mike Mentzer's eye in California at that time.

He is a true H.I.T. warrior.
BTW- This is a tremendous facility.
As I mentioned in prior posts, Roger "collects" used, vintage Nautilus pieces, much like the antique car collector.
Best Wishes,
Jack

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winstonnmccay

Im confused. If its true that none of us knows exactly whats going on with ourselves during a workout, how will someone else know? From what I have read about Casey, he learned next to nothing from Arthur Jones so his example means little. In fact, any example of geneticaly superior bodybuilders means little.

If not ourselves than who? Granted we as humans have an infinite capability to lie to ourselves to a certain degree. In the end it was either all us or it wasnt. If WE are not getting results then WE missed something. Most of us in this forum know if we killed ourselves in the gym. We know if we let our diet slip. We know if we didnt get enough sleep.

The difference between our getting results and not is our understanding and application of what we have learned.

No offense Dr. Darden but I think your wrong. Saying one cannot fulfill their potential without anothers judgement is akin to saying one cannot fulfill their potential without Nautilus machines. Th machines will make it easier and possibly get you there quicker but a loaded barbell and a squat rack will do the same.

Again I mean no disrespect and I thank you for years of information and motivation.
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Ellington Darden

winstonnmccay wrote:
Im confused. If its true that none of us knows exactly whats going on with ourselves during a workout, how will someone else know? From what I have read about Casey, he learned next to nothing from Arthur Jones so his example means little. In fact, any example of geneticaly superior bodybuilders means little.

If not ourselves than who? Granted we as humans have an infinite capability to lie to ourselves to a certain degree. In the end it was either all us or it wasnt. If WE are not getting results then WE missed something. Most of us in this forum know if we killed ourselves in the gym. We know if we let our diet slip. We know if we didnt get enough sleep.

The difference between our getting results and not is our understanding and application of what we have learned.

No offense Dr. Darden but I think your wrong. Saying one cannot fulfill their potential without anothers judgement is akin to saying one cannot fulfill their potential without Nautilus machines. Th machines will make it easier and possibly get you there quicker but a loaded barbell and a squat rack will do the same.

Again I mean no disrespect and I thank you for years of information and motivation.


You are right. There are a few, a very few people who can train on their own . . . who can understand and apply the principles precisely and achieve the best-possible results.

The vast majority, however, are stuck, confused, and easily misled. They have trouble understanding and applying.

What I have in mind is for those who have trouble understanding and applying the principles. And even those who do may still not be accomplishing their goals efficiently.

Ellington

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broadwaynyc

Sounds like a great idea, Dad!

Amy
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Tomboe

Ell,

Your remarks about the need for coaching are extremely astute. Ironically, it is, as you say, something that has been in front of our noses all along. In defense of your desire to make people independent, we forget the situation regarding supervision in the early Nautilus facilities was completely different than today. People were personally trained for several initial workouts and then needed to be weaned from being personally trained. How many people remember that Nautilus facilities were originally completely controlled environments? Originally, proper form was enforced by staff at these facilities and there was "group personal supervision" by staff of anyone in the facility working out.......not at all the case now. This has been the case for so long that the original environment has been completely forgotten.

A thought that immediately occurred to me when I read your comment is that perhaps there is a deeply embedded aspect to our psyche's or beings that requires a sense of conflict in our physical stimulation/exercise. THe personal trainer provides the "conflict" or subconscious opponent needed for maximal response.

In other words, having a personal coach/trainer is somehow like a fight for survival and that pushes a lever in our minds/bodies that causes an increased response to exercise stimulation??

As to the truth about the need for "conflict" in exercise, I cannot say with certainty. However, I have extensive experience personally training people as well, and I would say that it is certainly true that, overwhelmingly, direct personal coaching gets the best results by far, hands down. The only exception is when the person being trained is being coached by a person of considerably less expertise.

I sincerely wish I had someone of at least, my own level of expertise to personally train me. I have been trying to train someone these last few months to be my personal trainer. I am particularly good at training myself and have made good progress on my own. I also know that I would certainly make much faster/better progress with a personal trainer of comparable skill.

Really interesting remarks,

Best Regards

Tomboe
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rtestes

Mississippi, USA

Dr. Darden

You said "I've decided to offer private, three-hour workshops from my new home gym in Orlando. I want to help. I want you to achieve GREAT results, the best-possible results, from HIT.

Stay tuned to this Web site for all the details on how to take advantage my training workshops."

Did I miss details?
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Ellington Darden

Tomboe,

Your remarks are on-target. Thanks.

Ellington
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Ellington Darden

rtestes wrote:
Dr. Darden

You said "I've decided to offer private, three-hour workshops from my new home gym in Orlando. I want to help. I want you to achieve GREAT results, the best-possible results, from HIT.

Stay tuned to this Web site for all the details on how to take advantage my training workshops."

Did I miss details?


retestes,

Sorry for the delay. The details will be posted next week.

Ellington

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Roma2007

Unfortunately some of us don't have easy access to a real gym with proper equipment--and we don't have the opportunity to be coached in HIT. I started sbout 30+ years ago--I did HIT really. I'm asthmatic--I have a 20 min. expiration--so I trained around it.
I read books and had some classic courses.You can't lift any where near max on your own with most exercises because of safety (no spotter).

But when I finally went to a hard core gym when I was about 40--I lifted much heavier weights than the other women (including those on steroids).

I never acquired much mucle mass--some shape to my back and chest. I've heard with HIT this can happen--you can get a lot stronger--but not really equally muscular.

So some us--we made do without a coach (I did have this personal trainer at gym--two occasions--second time I saw her--she's on steroids)

All those old time strong men did they have coaches? I'm not saying it isn't better to have a coach.

I'm saying some us can monitor our form and make corrections etc. maybe because we're more natural athletes.
I enjoyed the new book.
But how many of the featured athletes in it are on steroids? OK maybe they did HIT.

I intend to get a power rack box--no need for spotters--can can do negs with a barbell, etc. So I can use heavy weights safely.
sorry for the long post--"reality check" thing
Roma
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jack32

Dr. Darden,
I can still recall the one and only personal session I had at Roger Schwab's MLH&F, many years ago.
I had the "displeasure" of being put through a Kevin Tolbert HIT session.
Quite an experience, to say the least.
Glad to say I survived it.
Jack
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petersurf

Hy Dr. Darden

I?m new to in this forum and to the HIT system, and would like to say that nothing makes more sense for me now than the ideas of Arthur jones and yours, its just logical and makes me thing about everything I?ve ever learned about strenght training.

I work as a trainer at a gym in Germany, and since 2 months began with a HIT routin with one of my clients; he?s 70 years old.

He is very happy about the routin and the results are coming fast.

My question is: What are your reccomendations about elders taking part in a HIT training?

Thanks a lot and
best regards
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Joe Mullen

Florida, USA

What a great offer you have made to the fitness consumer!

There is not a person on the face of the earth that has more legitimate knowledge, experience, passion or insight than you do.

I wish you the very best with this endeavor. It has the possibility to blossom into a licensing arrangement with those who truly understand what you can offer and can commit to cary the torch forward.

That licensing arrange has the power to impact the field of exercise like no one has ever done, except for Arthur Jones.

I wish you the very best!

Highest Regards;

Joe Mullen
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humrepair

Florida, USA

First, I would like to thank Dr. Darden for bringing up this topic.My own personal opinion is that the trainer is more important than the training equipment.I used to be preoccupied with using the best equipment available and while I would prefer using MedX/ Nautilus machines, I think that finding a trainer who can push you to the limit using correct form with a well thought out program would be the most valuable tool.

Finding this type of trainer is unfortunately not that easy.I will second Jack's recommendation of John Parr at Roger Schwab's place in Bryn Mawr.A real nice guy and extremely knowledgeable.Unfortunately Roger's gym is a long way from my current home in Florida.

My question for Dr. Darden is...if you are doing short seminars they will be invaluable to people unfamiliar with proper H.I.T... the students familiar with H.I.T. would still benefit greatly but..what happens after the seminar? This is a commitment to a lifestyle.How do you train yourself back at your own gym without a Dr.Darden? How often would a Dr. Darden refresher be necessary?

Back in the early 80's The Nautilus folks at Deland put me through my toughest ever workout.When I got back to Philly I was inspired but had to train myself.Besides the knowledge gained over the years I'm still faced with the fact that there aren't many good H.I.T. trainers around.

Oh yeah, I hope Jim Flanagan is helping you outfit your gym.What a place he has!
Neil
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stlsteve

Well, it can't be much of a secret since AJ said the same thing 30 years ago. The comment about the Nautilis Center is accurate, and I believe I learned a great deal about intense training there. Very few men have the potantial to be competitive body builders. Many that have the potential, choose other sports.

I don't want to be a body builder, even though I am a mesomorph with long muscles and short tendons.I am 69 years old.I train as hard as I can to failure. My best is all I can do. AJ & LDarden are my only experts.
Dr.D why isn't your nick name " Duke"?
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drog

timwolf wrote:
Dr. Darden,

Since I live in Pennsylvania, coming to Orlando would be out of the question.

I live about sixty miles from Main Line Health and Fitness in Bryn Mawr. Would you recommend Roger Schwab or one of his staff to help me with the four elements you stated? I have always wanted to have someone very knowledgeable take me through a true HIT workout. Having someone accurately assess what I truly need would be even better.

Thanks!

Tim


Tim I know what you mean I'm in upstate NY and I know of no (other than myself)HIT personal trainer.I do go to Philly occasionally and would really like to see what they have going on at Main Line as I've read good things in Dr Dardens latest book and on their wbsite,but Roger Scwab has been hard to get a hold of.

I do find this website helpful in just letting me know there are others out there using HIT,and getting some good tips and feed back of others who train people using HIT
As a matter of fact where I am I NEVER see anyone using anything close to HIT(exept myself and my clients)
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drog

Great article! Just when I that there was nothing new to consider.
After having trained for 40 years and worked most of my adult life in the Fitness Business, I don't even take my own advice!

I can train others,motivate,observe, evaluate,recommend, and anticipate their objections to what I recommend , but an honest look at what I actually do myself shows that I'm just as guilty as those I talk to when it comes to applying what I know to be true or even what I believe to be true.

I agree you can not train yourself but If you have to then this article may shed some light on how to do it better,maybe not great results but better than we're getting
Thanx again for a real eye opener
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john38

Oklahoma, USA

I've quit posting on here for a while because the current posters are so full of crap it's unbelievable. With all do respect this is the most ignorant post so far! So now people can't even train themselves? We all need to have partners or a trainer is that the idea behind this? Bull! If you have the fortitude and the desire you can train yourself consistently and with fantastic results!

And so no one can train themselves except Arthur Jones, the almighty Jones! He is rolling over in his grave right now. Can someone explain to me how he trained Casey Viator at the CE? I'll tell you how with proof! He sat in a chair reading the paper and when he saw Casey slacking (or what he perceived as slacking) he said something to piss him off and get a few more reps. My proof? Casey's book saying just that and pics of Casey training with Jones sitting in the background in a chair reading the paper! Do you really think the man was yelling and screaming telling whoever he trained to get off his ass and work?

Watch him train Coe on these videos at Utube and Cyberpump. I think everyone on this damn post is clueless on training themselves and clueless on what Jones really did and how he trained people. I also think credit should go to Viator because if it weren't for his training attention and focus, nautilus would never have happened. Holy Crap people grow up and get the facts and get a life!
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Ellington Darden

John38,

The pictures you are referring to of Jones training Casey were taken in 1978, not 1971. I can assure you that Jones trained Viator in 1971 by getting in his face and not by sitting in a chair reading a newspaper. I know because I was there.

Jones could train himself, that's true. Unfortunately, very, very few people can train themselves. If you can, great. If a few others can, then I'm pleased for them also.

What I'm talking about are the masses who cannot train themselves, at least not consistently.

Nautilus equipment, in my opinion, would have still happened without Viator's success. It would have just taken longer.

Ellington
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john38

Oklahoma, USA

Not to be disrespectful but no matter when the pics were taken they show that he was not jumping up and down like an idiot screaming at Viator. I have several pics from the CE and he's doing the exact same thing. The only one near casey is Plese and even he didn't break a sweat.

And on top of that you would have to say that Viator was lying in his book. On top of watching him train Coe, the pics from the Military academy and such show you are perpetrating a tall tale.

Training is a state of mind and when someone with the prestige that you hold tell these hapless AJ wantabees that they can't even train themselves even consistently (which is not true and you know that) is slapping these children in the face. Fact of the matter is Jones methods have been twisted to the point of fantasy and none of these people realize it.

That's even apparent with yourself since you decided to forgo the masses and sell your new book on the web for an outrageous price so you've basically whored out what jones used to do for free. All need to make a living but what happened to spreading the word?

Have you become so disillusioned that You are content just pleasing this small click of people who cite infomercials as a source of learning? What happened to the original HIT?
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Ellington Darden

John38,

I never said Jones was jumping up and down acting like an idiot. He was stern, forceful, and could certainly raise his voice. What Jones did is not easy to see in a photograph.

The Boyer Coe tapes were made many years after Jones had lost most of his "fire."

Thanks for your opinion, which you are entitled to, but I'll stick to mine: the vast majority of HIT guys cannot train themselves, not consistently.

And concerning my new book, if you've bought it and read it -- and don't think it's worth $40 -- PM me and I'll refund your money.

Ellington

PS: Since you mentioned Casey's book, "Total Fitness," which was self-published and sells for $30, compare it to my book. Compare the number of pages, the approximate words, the number of photos, and the overall design and quality?
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john38

Oklahoma, USA

Very true about Casey's book but Casey never had a publisher and is not as experienced or as polished a writer as you. Mentzer never got published commercially until after he died and his books are still expensive. So I understand about self publishing and it can be expensive. But not in your case.

I've enjoyed several books you've written and have even passed the information along so friends could buy their own copy because they were affordable. Your last book sold really well and I'm sure they would've had no problem publishing this one and HIT would've gotten a terrific boost from it. But I digress.

Fact is no one on this forum has properly presented HIT and it's benefits without adding some bizarre twist that brings nothing to the table. You have half wits telling us about new rep schemes, Another half-wit living in his own mind saying he's gonna write a book about it which will amount to nothing.

Creatine loads that'll just leave you with diabetes and cramps and empty praises for a man they knew nothing about and have no clue to the extent of his influence. I honestly believe if he could Jones would crawl out of his grave and punch all of you in the mouth with a hearty f*** you!

I hate to be so blunt but truth is this is a forum of egos and dreamworlds, not HIT. That's why I don't post unless it's really dumb and hurtful on people. And now you tell them they have no control and cannot train without help. That's just not so and it should be retracted because it only brings HIT down.

As far as Jones training people I've offered enough proof as to where you've offered none. Where's the hard proof? the pics, the videos,not just tall tales of days gone by.
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Ciccio

You are THIS John, aren't you?
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john38

Oklahoma, USA

Boy I wish! what a great form, and that helmet! What a chick magnet! I'm just concerned about the state of exercise and how it's being bastardized. The john you're referring to really doesn't have much to do with HIT other then selling Jones stuff and some custom bars. So for the record, no I'm not the Helmet!

John
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ac01

HI

I totally agree with john38. We have a similar number of people in the uk, some gym owners who propose to known everything about early nautilus, arthur jones, viator's early training etc. On speak to such people it seems that there ideas are based on someones diluted ideas/books of AJ'S early writings and ideas.
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