MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
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Bob Marchesello
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Jeff Turner
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Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
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Ted Tucker
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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Dan_The_man

It shouldn't take someone to train once every 7 days to bring this forum to life? What's happening here? Someone say anything. Be spontaneous. Don't repeat what you've read. Say what you've done, are doing. What you agree or don't agree with. Say you eat Doughnuts for a living, but for goodness sake if something doesn't start happening soon I'm gone as well. This is a joke. This site has been stagnant for years. Is this the end of exercise?

If you don't agree with HIT a bit like me fine, but surely it's a pleasurable experience to feel the chest muscles, or whatever muscles they be stretching and then contracting. Watching new veins develop before your eyes as you do a wrist curl? I guess not...
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Grant D.

Dan

Stagnation and lack of progress has led to bewilderment amongst hitters for decades. Terms like hardgainer, aerobics, lean, nutrition, friction, machine, partials, zone, etcetera all pop up in attempted explanations to trigger a response. Even klowns like turprin are relevated to mythical status and what he does is insane and the furthest thing from SOA exercise on this site.

Concpets like ...

INTENSE FOCUS
MINIMAL MOTION
REDUCED VOLUME
EXTENDED RECOVERY
AVOIDING ROBAT

... cannot be that hard to "figure out" after 40 years! Ever here of Dr. Darden and 303030?
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Was Grant hacked? That sounds even more mentally stunted than his usual posts? Typically, at least his spelling and grammar are OK if not Doug Henning-ish in their exuberance.

Dan: What is there to say? We've said it all. This ain't Rocket Science.

Every once in a while, something new comes along and generates good conversation for a while.

I can tell you what I'm doing now, but it isn't too far away from what I've told you a dozen times before.

I don't eat donuts for a living, but sometimes my midsection feels like I have a part-time job at the sweet shop. I'm trying DIM right now to diminish estrogen in my life, but no great effects a couple weeks in. I'll give it a few weeks more to see.

Androsta no longer sold at some brick-and-mortar nutrition chains. I may have to get it online. At almost 55, I have no great or magical expectations, but a 'noticeable effect' would be good enough for me.

I did the AFT for a while to good effect. Then, I added a HIT set or two each workout to change it up.

As of the last 3-4 weeks, I am alternating all-HIT workouts with all-AFT-type workouts. The split is:
Quads-Arms
Calves-Hams-Torso

I switch to Push-Pull split from time to time, but still keep upper AND lower body work in every workout.

As I said on 'Tren..' thread, my HIT workouts include 50% sets or strip sets or a 20% drop* on a main exercise. The second exercise is usually 10-20 rep straight HIT, stopping at the last rep I can do in good form.
(*I'll expand on this if anyone asks, in the interest of Conversation. It is a happy median between AFT and one HIT element I bring into my HIT workouts)

Best Regards,
Scott

P.S. Dan, you can leave if you must but check back in (you've done it before) and see if anything new shakes loose.

I find this forum better than most I've seen, where people Talk to themselves --- people say things and you can see from the posts that follow their posts were NOT read.
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Average Al

Dan_The_man wrote:
It shouldn't take someone to train once every 7 days to bring this forum to life? What's happening here? Someone say anything. Be spontaneous. Don't repeat what you've read. Say what you've done, are doing. What you agree or don't agree with. Say you eat Doughnuts for a living, but for goodness sake if something doesn't start happening soon I'm gone as well. This is a joke. This site has been stagnant for years. Is this the end of exercise?

If you don't agree with HIT a bit like me fine, but surely it's a pleasurable experience to feel the chest muscles, or whatever muscles they be stretching and then contracting. Watching new veins develop before your eyes as you do a wrist curl? I guess not...


Are there any other active forums or boards with a specific focus on HIT? BBS had a steady stream of visitors, but that is gone now, and it isn't clear if McGuff is going to try bring back a discussion forum.

I think part of the problem with HIT and discussion forums is that there is only so much you can say.

The basic idea is pretty simple: substitute intensity of effort for volume, use controlled speed of movement with a focus on using load to fatigue the muscle (instead of just trying to move a lot of weight), using one set to failure on a particular exercise or body part. When progress stalls, reduce the frequency or number of exercises, and try to make failure more intense. For all the arguing about details, that is pretty much it.

So you try it, and it works to some extent. If you are happy with the results, what is there to talk about? And if you aren't, where do you go? Mostly back to more conventional approaches, I suppose.

The only real complexity comes from the use of machines to improve the efficiency of exercise. Arthur Jones made himself rich by convincing lots of gym owners to replace cheap barbells with relatively expensive cammed machines. He was so successful that almost every commercial fitness center now has far more machines than free weights (though a barbell resurgence seems to be underway).

So you can certainly go down the rabbit hole of arguing about the nuances of machine design. But this ends up being kind of a niche audience. Most people just end up using whatever machines are available at where ever they train. You have a few people who are trying to make a business out of selling new machine designs (X-Force, RenEx, ARX), and they are quite happy to talk about how great their machines are. But unless you've got major disposable income, or someone near you happens to put these into a fitness center, you aren't going to be able to use these yourselves. You've got a few people on this forum who are collectors of vintage gear, acquired cheaply. Seems like a fun hobby if you have the space and money for it. But again, a niche audience.

As for me: I work out twice a week at a typical commercial gym. I use both machines and free weights. On a few exercises (squats, deadlifts, overhead press, bench press) I still train to move more weight. Other exercises (mostly compound and isolation machines) I focus more on fatiguing the muscle, going to failure with a more controlled cadence. On some exercises (mostly single joint movements) I will use one set to failure. On other exercises (mostly compound movements), I will use a couple of sets to failure, or couple of similar exercises in succession (e.g., machine chest press followed by dumbbell chest press). I continue to try to get stronger, but am realistic about what is possible, and am aware that it is more important to avoid getting injured, and to preserve the health of my joints.

For me, a little more volume in the form of multiple sets or exercises seems to give somewhat better results that trying to continually ramp up the intensity effort while sticking to just a single set of one exercise for a particular body part. I find that trying to reach a high level of intense of effort, particularly with long time under load, is just difficult to sustain.

Also, chasing after gains and big guns seems to be more of a thing for young people. I'm old, past 60, and am mainly trying to avoid turning into a fragile, disabled elderly person.







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Nwlifter

I wish it was more active too.

I think the problem is, in the past, if there were some who 'heard it all and read it all', they posted rarely but there were always new people, and younger people (we used to be them!) posting new ideas and asking questions. Now, it seems it's just 'us', the remaining die hard lifters from the past who post here.
The forum is a weird mix now where a person actually get's nuked for liking the very theme of the forum (HIT and specifically Darden and Jone's style).

I've googled and visited a bunch of forums in the last few months and the only one that is really active anymore is BB.com (ugh). All the good forums, the hardcore ones are just super slow like this one. A few people post once in a while most threads have 'last post' dates of years go. It's really depressing!

Another thing too, it seems like WAY back in time, lifting was more a cultish thing for just a few, people thought gaining muscle was weird. Then in the 60's it took off, in the 70s it was really getting popular. In the 80's, even movies liked to use big bodybuilder types for roles (think of all Arnie's movies, Dolf, ect), being big was 'cool' and was in people's faces all the time. Big muscled people were the super heros. A the grocery store, the magazine rack had M&F, Flex, Ironman, Muscular Developement, Natural BBing, MM2K... tons of mags on it. Now the movies rarely have BB-ers in them, the magazine racks reveal the interest with nary a BB mag in site....it's back to being more a lesser popular thing now :(

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sgb2112

Video killed the radio star & Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter killed forums.

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HeavyHitter32

I started that I believe was the second HIT discussion forum on the Web back in 1997 called, "The Anaerobic, High Intensity Exercise Forum". Was anyone else around then to remember it? It came out right after "Zap's" board which I think was the very first HIT forum.

Drew Baye, Johnston, and a few others posted on mine occasionally. It lasted until about 2000 as I got tired of maintaining it and my views from hardcore HIT started to change. Some of the guys from the "Garage Gym" board would come over to argue sometimes as they were more Brooks and Hardgainer followers. On any rate, I always noticed that I had to keep it active by posting new posts, articles, etc. otherwise it would just go dry. I suspect Dr. D is rather busy to keep up the forum to that degree and that is the main reason I stopped myself.
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Ellington Darden

Thank you "Average Al" for your definition of HIT. I'd like to use some of your thoughts in my next book, with your permission of course.

Ellington
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

---Scott---
The forum needs new blood but then the same old worn out questions come up. There's only so many ways to lift a dumbbell or do a pullover and most of the routines have been gone over again and again until you're sick of hearing it. I come on here because Ellington is my last vestige to the Nautilus I love so much. When he leaves this business it will be like Jones or Mentzer leaving. All these other trainers short of Bill Simone or Brian are goofs as far as I'm concerned and I'll stop looking at forums. I could care less what other folks do as ive just about tried it all. what they do has little effect on what I do but I do love to see videos of someone actually training . It's fun to see the intensity and form etc they use. More of that would help this forum. And I still treasure peaks into the past of the good old days of Nautilus ! Never before seen pictures are wonderful !
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Nwlifter

Yeah to some, the questions would be worn out, but to the new people, it was be 'new and exciting' territory for them. I'm sure when many here were in that stage, people who were older back then, thought we were repeating and rehashing what they thought was old and already 'solved'.

Me, I'm rare I guess, I still find training exciting and interesting, I still find studies, information and people's experiences just as stimulating as I did 35 years ago when I first started. I guess I just love training at my core, it never gets old or 'boring' to me.

To me, nothing is 'solved' yet, some have found what works for them the best (I've found many things and found it's how you do them, more than 'what' you do) and to me, that is fascinating. Once a person builds walls, their view is obstructed by those walls and their whole world becomes that small room.

I'm still waiting for someone to do something like the colorado experiment, with a group of willing trainees, doesn't have to be THAT exact routine, but something really controlled, something that would shake things up a bit.


entsminger wrote:
---Scott---
The forum needs new blood but then the same old worn out questions come up. There's only so many ways to lift a dumbbell or do a pullover and most of the routines have been gone over again and again until you're sick of hearing it. I come on here because Ellington is my last vestige to the Nautilus I love so much. When he leaves this business it will be like Jones or Mentzer leaving. All these other trainers short of Bill Simone or Brian are goofs as far as I'm concerned and I'll stop looking at forums. I could care less what other folks do as ive just about tried it all. what they do has little effect on what I do but I do love to see videos of someone actually training . It's fun to see the intensity and form etc they use. More of that would help this forum. And I still treasure peaks into the past of the good old days of Nautilus ! Never before seen pictures are wonderful !


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Dan_The_man

Forums aren't dead there's a lot of them that are thriving, but in the UK the popular ones are full of people sharing their cycle and supplier information, drug use is so rife training is now secondary. Some guys don't bother training at all if they can't get hold of their 'steds'.

I used to like bodybuilding because it was so niche, but now it's gone mainstream, and so has the drug use and thuggary.

I don't believe it's a case of if you do HIT and it works for you it's a FULL STOP. Or it doesn't work so I'm off. You can still celebrate your success like Turpin who doesn't even train HIT.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Nwlifter wrote:
Yeah to some, the questions would be worn out, but to the new people, it was be 'new and exciting' territory for them. I'm sure when many here were in that stage, people who were older back then, thought we were repeating and rehashing what they thought was old and already 'solved'.

Me, I'm rare I guess, I still find training exciting and interesting, I still find studies, information and people's experiences just as stimulating as I did 35 years ago when I first started. I guess I just love training at my core, it never gets old or 'boring' to me.

To me, nothing is 'solved' yet, some have found what works for them the best (I've found many things and found it's how you do them, more than 'what' you do) and to me, that is fascinating. Once a person builds walls, their view is obstructed by those walls and their whole world becomes that small room.

I'm still waiting for someone to do something like the colorado experiment, with a group of willing trainees, doesn't have to be THAT exact routine, but something really controlled, something that would shake things up a bit.


entsminger wrote:
---Scott---
The forum needs new blood but then the same old worn out questions come up. There's only so many ways to lift a dumbbell or do a pullover and most of the routines have been gone over again and again until you're sick of hearing it. I come on here because Ellington is my last vestige to the Nautilus I love so much. When he leaves this business it will be like Jones or Mentzer leaving. All these other trainers short of Bill Simone or Brian are goofs as far as I'm concerned and I'll stop looking at forums. I could care less what other folks do as ive just about tried it all. what they do has little effect on what I do but I do love to see videos of someone actually training . It's fun to see the intensity and form etc they use. More of that would help this forum. And I still treasure peaks into the past of the good old days of Nautilus ! Never before seen pictures are wonderful !



---Scott---
I would hope for something better than the Colorado experiment where they took a guy who had been already big, got injured and lost a ton of weight and then ate like a pig and worked out hard to regain what he had and then some. Hardly inspirational.

Don't get me wrong, I still love to work out, it's the next thing to sex . You just get tired of hearing is one set better than three , etc, etc, . The only interesting thing on here in a long time was Dardens X force stuff but then again he used mostly guys who were already big . It would be really nice to see it start with some bean pole kid and watch him pile it on some muscle even if it took years , which it would.
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tsg2513

Florida, USA

Dan_The_man wrote:
It shouldn't take someone to train once every 7 days to bring this forum to life? What's happening here? Someone say anything. Be spontaneous. Don't repeat what you've read. Say what you've done, are doing. What you agree or don't agree with. Say you eat Doughnuts for a living, but for goodness sake if something doesn't start happening soon I'm gone as well. This is a joke. This site has been stagnant for years. Is this the end of exercise?

If you don't agree with HIT a bit like me fine, but surely it's a pleasurable experience to feel the chest muscles, or whatever muscles they be stretching and then contracting. Watching new veins develop before your eyes as you do a wrist curl? I guess not...


The "sport" of bodybuilding (if you could call it that) is dead to most of us that visit or post to this site. We've gone from it being a somewhat healthy "cult-like" activity to something that no longer resembles bodybuilding/weight-training of the past century. The last good magazine was Ironman when it was owned by the Rader's.

I love to train as much today as I did 40 years ago when I first started but I have no desire to read what is going on in the competitive bodybuilding scene. From the neck down, they ALL look about the same. Big, bloated comic book cartoon physiques only obtainable if one is willing to shorten their life-span. Most of these guys will not make it to 50 years old...how sad to give ones life for some worthless trophies.

Yes, I have competed over the years but only in drug tested shows but even then, I was at times, skeptical of the validity of the testing. I will continue to train because I not only like the way it makes me look and feel but because I want to live a long, healthy and productive life.

I do not post often but when I do, it is usually only on this site because I feel like most of those that visit and post on this site have a genuine respect for the site and it's members (although not everyone is respectful of others).

I hope this site continues on and thrives but that can only happen if individual's motives are not to self-promote and critique others because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Happy Training!

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Nwlifter

Good post!

tsg2513 wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
It shouldn't take someone to train once every 7 days to bring this forum to life? What's happening here? Someone say anything. Be spontaneous. Don't repeat what you've read. Say what you've done, are doing. What you agree or don't agree with. Say you eat Doughnuts for a living, but for goodness sake if something doesn't start happening soon I'm gone as well. This is a joke. This site has been stagnant for years. Is this the end of exercise?

If you don't agree with HIT a bit like me fine, but surely it's a pleasurable experience to feel the chest muscles, or whatever muscles they be stretching and then contracting. Watching new veins develop before your eyes as you do a wrist curl? I guess not...

The "sport" of bodybuilding (if you could call it that) is dead to most of us that visit or post to this site. We've gone from it being a somewhat healthy "cult-like" activity to something that no longer resembles bodybuilding/weight-training of the past century. The last good magazine was Ironman when it was owned by the Rader's.

I love to train as much today as I did 40 years ago when I first started but I have no desire to read what is going on in the competitive bodybuilding scene. From the neck down, they ALL look about the same. Big, bloated comic book cartoon physiques only obtainable if one is willing to shorten their life-span. Most of these guys will not make it to 50 years old...how sad to give ones life for some worthless trophies.

Yes, I have competed over the years but only in drug tested shows but even then, I was at times, skeptical of the validity of the testing. I will continue to train because I not only like the way it makes me look and feel but because I want to live a long, healthy and productive life.

I do not post often but when I do, it is usually only on this site because I feel like most of those that visit and post on this site have a genuine respect for the site and it's members (although not everyone is respectful of others).

I hope this site continues on and thrives but that can only happen if individual's motives are not to self-promote and critique others because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Happy Training!



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PTDaniel

This board caters to a fringe element that belongs to a fringe culture. It's audience is extremely small, so post volume is bound to be low.
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Turpin

This forum has always had good advice and decent intellect ( save for the recurring idiot(s) who come and go ).
I don't post / contribute or debate as much these days , simply because I am not intent on forcing my opinion on others and simply content in doing what I do. I DO post ( albeit infrequently ) on my training log but since my chosen method does not meet with the general ethos of which the forum was intended ( H.I.T ) I prefer not to push the issue.

T.
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HeavyHitter32

Turpin wrote:
This forum has always had good advice and decent intellect ( save for the recurring idiot(s) who come and go ).
I don't post / contribute or debate as much these days , simply because I am not intent on forcing my opinion on others and simply content in doing what I do. I DO post ( albeit infrequently ) on my training log but since my chosen method does not meet with the general ethos of which the forum was intended ( H.I.T ) I prefer not to push the issue.

T.


Spoken like a class act.
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sirloin

Hi Dan,

To be honest, I find this forum to be somewhat clicky, its mostly middle aged / older members...not a bad thing mind you, reading many of the conversations and debates here has been educational and given me food for thought. It's also nice that this is a forum geared toward the natural trainee.

I preferred the Bill Sahli forum when it was active, it wasn't as clicky, there were posters of all ages there and different sections, moreover Bill went into great detail and relished answering any questions or queries people had.

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Average Al

Ellington Darden wrote:
Thank you "Average Al" for your definition of HIT. I'd like to use some of your thoughts in my next book, with your permission of course.

Ellington


Of course, I would be honored. Though I think I got these ideas from you in the first place!
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ATP 4 Vitality

Dan_The_man wrote:
Say what you've done, are doing. What you agree or don't agree with.



Dan,

I'm upgrading a Next Generation Nautilus Abdominal machine. I'll use caster wheels, new paint, new pads, and see if any new bearings are needed. I'm going to get creative on the shields....don't know exactly how or which direction that creativity will take....but I like this machine....smooth....with a large weight stack. I don't like the clam shell designs due to abdominal active insufficiency, and the abdominal muscles can't be divided into low and upper abs.

I have 2 heart rate monitors, and I've determined my maximum heart rate is lower than what calculated rates would have lead me to believe. Sub-maximal heart rate training on an Assault Air bike has brought good results.

After watching Pro-bb's do a reduced rep range, and thinking about DeSimone's congruent exercise paradigm, I've tried a slow repetition with the eccentric held mid range isometrically, followed by several bb-ing "pulse reps." Works exceeding well and feels good. But....there is no magical rep scheme or workout...that I know.


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StuKE

I am the most haphazard (with my training schedule)that I have been since I starts at 12-13. I miss more workouts than I actually do. Not good. It's a mix of busy family life, lack of direction and injuries / issues. Not an excuse I know, needs sorting out!
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