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Jeff Turner
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Jeff Turner: "I Want to Get Lean."
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txiron

Jeff,

You sound so sure of the extreme muscular gains (20 lbs or more in 6-7 weeks) that your clients have made.
Honestly, that sounds amazing considering the condensed time frame.
So as to not be labeled a "hater" or a cynic I am asking you directly.
Can you provide a rough outline as to how you achieved those great results?
I appreciate your time and wish you good luck regarding your training with Dr. Darden.
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RX Exercise

North Carolina, USA

Jeff,

Good luck and keep up the great work!


Sincerely,
Craig Murway
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

txiron wrote:
Jeff,

You sound so sure of the extreme muscular gains (20 lbs or more in 6-7 weeks) that your clients have made.
Honestly, that sounds amazing considering the condensed time frame.
So as to not be labeled a "hater" or a cynic I am asking you directly.
Can you provide a rough outline as to how you achieved those great results?
I appreciate your time and wish you good luck regarding your training with Dr. Darden.


Txiron
Thanks for your encouragment and question. I do understand how hard it is to believe but I assure you it is true. I did this with Dave m. Twice. I kept very accurate bodycomps and tape measure stats on both subjects. You know what the differences I found with these two were?

1.)Way better than average genectics(probably the most important for size) 2.)These two would not shut off. They train harder than 98% of the people I train and I have trained a lot of people.

The workouts were not special. As I have said before, it is not the workout but the stimulus(again along with your genetics) that makes the difference. Full body workouts with large muscle groups and we would every so often throw in a special arm or chest routine but usually just 6-8 multi-joint exercises.

We trained slow, brief, but all out. At the end of the sessions they were lucky to be able to lay down. They both became very strong and we really pushed the weight. In fact, after the last 7 weeks with Dave M, he was using 730lbs on the Superslow leg press for 4-6 good reps. They were not perfect 10-10 but were no faster than 7-7. I also made sure that they ate more calories.

Dave was eating close to 5500calories by the end of his second go round. More lean muscle more energy spent. I also think you need to realize that not only were these guys geneticly gifted but both were over 6' 2". Dave M is 6'4". They have alot of frame to add tissue.

In my experience all clients have gotten very good results- will they all gain 22lbs of lean tissue in 7-8 weeks? No. But within their genetic makeup they will change very quickly in a short time frame, with very little time spent training.

I have been training this way and also all my clients too for over 23 years. We have no contracts at my studios and do people really think that my clients would keep coming back and paying me to train them if they did'nt see good results? I hardly think they would want to just give me money for no return. Some of my clients have been with me for over 10 years.
Jeff
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

StrengthWay wrote:
Jeff,

Good luck and keep up the great work!


Sincerely,
Craig Murway


Thanks Craig,
I weigh in on Saturday A.M. and hope to lose alittle more this week. This has been a tough week with the Christmas holiday and such. You can't not have fun right?

Of course by fun I mean eat cookies, pies, mashed potatos etc. Ha ha! Actually I stayed pretty close to what my calorie intake should be and did my cool water. I of course did my workouts -so we will see!
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spud

Will there be standardized before and after photos once this is over?
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Ellington Darden

spud wrote:
Will there be standardized before and after photos once this is over?


Jeff took several BEFORE shots . . . so we should have some interesting comparisons in March of 2008.

Ellington

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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

My name is Rick, and yes, it's New Year's resolution day... I had triple bypass surgery on June 13, 2007. I've been working out in a hit manner for over 25 years, and started working out again, 12 weeks after my surgery, and am already back to the same weights I was using before my surgery. I'm just coming off a scheduled layoff which is being extended to at least this coming Sunday due to a bit of a sore throat that feels like a cold coming on.

However, tomorrow, I'm starting to diet seriously and I plan to lose about 20 pounds by March 13, when I leave for a cruise. My plan is to weigh 180 (6' tall, 49 years old) and I will weigh in my starting weight in the morning, but I'm guessing I'm between 195 and 200 now. Here is the plan... (notes are also for others who will be joining me)

Challenge to Jeff: Let's see if I can't be a control group for someone working out without a coach!
Breakfast
Shake (2 scoops whey protein, 3-4 tsp fish oil, 1 tsp olive oil, 8 oz
frozen berries, 1 scoop splenda unless protein already artificially
sweetened, add fiber if desired) 400 calories
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Mid morning shake (1 scoop Metabolic Drive and 1 tsp olive oil) (skip for
ladies except for week 3, one scoop only) 150 calories wk 3 add 1 scoop (
Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)


Lunch
Michelina 250 calories
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Mid afternoon shake (same as mid morning) 150 calories wk 2 and 3 add 1
scoop
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)


Dinner 500 calories (only meal you have to calculate; use equivalent weight
watcher points if desired)
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Evening snack Michelina 250 calories

If 2 Michelina dinners total less than 500 calories make up difference with
metabolic drive, + add fiber to any meal as desired/needed.

Drink as much extra water as possible but try to drink it all by 5 PM so
you're not up half the night. Get to bed an hour early. Only strength train
2 or 3 times a week (safe, slow but intense, one set of 5 to 10 exercises)
or add one 20 minute casual walk per day. Keep bedroom cooler at night. (if
you screw up a meal, forgive yourself and don't use it as an excuse to
screw up the next one) (tell everyone your goal to keep you honest)

Wk 1 men 1700/ladies 1550
Wk 2 men 1800/ladies 1650
Wk3 men 1900/ladies 1750

Wk1 Jan 2 weight:
Wk2 Jan 13 weight:
Wk 3 Jan 20 weight:

Wk1 Jan 27 weight:
Wk2 Feb 3 weight:
Wk3 Feb 10 weight:

Wk1 Feb 17 weight:
Wk2 Feb 24 weight:
Wk 3 Mar 2 weight:

Wk1 mar 9 weight:
Mar 12 weight:
Mar 13 off to cruise at ideal weight and reward yourself for doing a good
job! While on cruise, plan next phase of goal to finish 2008 in best shape
of your life!!

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admnautilus

Washington, USA

s153015 wrote:
My name is Rick, and yes, it's New Year's resolution day... I had triple bypass surgery on June 13, 2007. I've been working out in a hit manner for over 25 years, and started working out again, 12 weeks after my surgery, and am already back to the same weights I was using before my surgery. I'm just coming off a scheduled layoff which is being extended to at least this coming Sunday due to a bit of a sore throat that feels like a cold coming on.

However, tomorrow, I'm starting to diet seriously and I plan to lose about 20 pounds by March 13, when I leave for a cruise. My plan is to weigh 180 (6' tall, 49 years old) and I will weigh in my starting weight in the morning, but I'm guessing I'm between 195 and 200 now. Here is the plan... (notes are also for others who will be joining me)

Challenge to Jeff: Let's see if I can't be a control group for someone working out without a coach!
Breakfast
Shake (2 scoops whey protein, 3-4 tsp fish oil, 1 tsp olive oil, 8 oz
frozen berries, 1 scoop splenda unless protein already artificially
sweetened, add fiber if desired) 400 calories
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Mid morning shake (1 scoop Metabolic Drive and 1 tsp olive oil) (skip for
ladies except for week 3, one scoop only) 150 calories wk 3 add 1 scoop (
Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)


Lunch
Michelina 250 calories
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Mid afternoon shake (same as mid morning) 150 calories wk 2 and 3 add 1
scoop
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)


Dinner 500 calories (only meal you have to calculate; use equivalent weight
watcher points if desired)
( Drink at least 1 large glass of water over and above meal)

Evening snack Michelina 250 calories

If 2 Michelina dinners total less than 500 calories make up difference with
metabolic drive, + add fiber to any meal as desired/needed.

Drink as much extra water as possible but try to drink it all by 5 PM so
you're not up half the night. Get to bed an hour early. Only strength train
2 or 3 times a week (safe, slow but intense, one set of 5 to 10 exercises)
or add one 20 minute casual walk per day. Keep bedroom cooler at night. (if
you screw up a meal, forgive yourself and don't use it as an excuse to
screw up the next one) (tell everyone your goal to keep you honest)

Wk 1 men 1700/ladies 1550
Wk 2 men 1800/ladies 1650
Wk3 men 1900/ladies 1750

Wk1 Jan 2 weight:
Wk2 Jan 13 weight:
Wk 3 Jan 20 weight:

Wk1 Jan 27 weight:
Wk2 Feb 3 weight:
Wk3 Feb 10 weight:

Wk1 Feb 17 weight:
Wk2 Feb 24 weight:
Wk 3 Mar 2 weight:

Wk1 mar 9 weight:
Mar 12 weight:
Mar 13 off to cruise at ideal weight and reward yourself for doing a good
job! While on cruise, plan next phase of goal to finish 2008 in best shape
of your life!!



Good Job Rick and best of luck!
With the correct planning you will exceed your goal. Update us on your progrees and I will also. Happy New year and New You!! Train Hard.
PS. Having Dr. Darden there helps with keeping me strict. Even through the holidays, I still lost another pound.I know it is not much but at least I still lost not gained. For me, having someone that is keeping track of my progress makes me think more about my eating at every meal and snack. Plus I have someone to confir with about my training. Jeff
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dbrannan

Florida, USA

Dr. Darden,
I've been training for about 20 years, but I'm new to HIT. I had read about HIT before but because of influence from others and magazines didn't think it sounded like it should work. Now 20 years later I tried it and found out I was wrong and you Dr. Darden were right. Sorry it took this long.

My question is about the not to failure workouts. Should the NTF workouts be the same exercises or can the NTF workout be made up of different, say second best exercises?

Normally, I am doing squats, stiff legged deadlifts, neg chins, flat bench, neg dips, curls, ect. On NTF days is it alright to change these to say leg ext, leg curl, pullovers, incline press, ect.?

Currently I am doing three days a week and occasionally two days a week. I might go to two days a week because of using the diet from your book NEW HIT and also scheduling at work for the next few months.

Any suggestions would help.

Thanks,
David
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Ellington Darden

David,

Yes, your NTF routines can be composed of different exercises than you normally do.

Ellington
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hey David,

Welcome!

NTF workouts provide a perfect opportunity to "test drive" exercises you haven't tried before --- or perhaps ones you just haven't done in a long time.

This way, you can get a good idea on probable poundages to use should you choose to rotate these into your all-out workouts.

Regards,
Scott
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trgrantham

California, USA

I finished reading The New High Intensity Training and A Flat Stomach ASAP. I have been training w/HVT for years and in just 3 weeks I experienced circumference gains of all major muscle groups. (chest 48 1/8 to 49, arms 16 5/8 to 17 1/8 and thigh 25 to 26 1/4)
Here is my question: Is this a true muscle gain or is this an inflammation of the muscle tissue? I have been unable to locate any materials showing muscle biopsy or scientific studies proving HIT produces a true muscle gain in trained participants. If there are any sources please share them.
I would take the increase of girth without complaint except that my single repetition max has decreased in both Squat and Bench.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Ellington,

Do you have a progress report on Jeff's weight/fat loss?

Were any changes required for his workouts?

Regards,
Scott
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

simon-hecubus wrote:
Ellington,

Do you have a progress report on Jeff's weight/fat loss?

Were any changes required for his workouts?

Regards,
Scott


Hi All,
I did not lose more than another pound last week. this of course was due to holiday week and I did not work as hard at it as I did before. That is all through now though and I should see around 2.5-3lbs loss this week.

My total loss so far through the holidays too is 7lbs. At least I did not gain any! Whew!! I should be right on my target of 25lbs off by first of March.

As far as workouts, all is good except I seem to have fired up my sciatic nerve. I may want to limit the hip extension, low back and change to something else till it calms down? What do you think Dr. Darden? Jeff
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Ellington Darden

Jeff,

Instead of the hip extension, substitute the standing calf raise. That should ease any stress in your lower back.

And keep your diet strict.

Ellington
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

Ellington Darden wrote:
Jeff,

Instead of the hip extension, substitute the standing calf raise. That should ease any stress in your lower back.

And keep your diet strict.

Ellington


Ell,
I am on it! Drinking water- watching calories! Jeff
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

By the way here is pict. of myself and Big Jim Flanagan in his great studio at his house. I wanted to mention this about my workout with Jim plus also encourage anyone who has a need for exercise equipment to give big Jim a call.If you would like to get a hold of him send me a message and I will forward to Jim. He has direct connections to efficent and effective equipment out there.Jeff
Ps. I was beat for days after my "session" with Jim. He is a great guy too!
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Jer Bear

Illinois, USA

I just wanted to add a little personal note to this great thread, mainly because I can't start a post!

Someone asked about a meal plan (aka diet) for lossing weight. I'm a Correctional Food Service Supervisor at a state correctional center here in Illinois. I hold a food handler's permit, and I can stop an over/under portioned tray at ten paces! LOL I work alot of OT and midnights, so I am very sleep deprived. I feel that is I could sleep more than 5 hours at a time, I might waks up with rigoem mortis. But naps and just plain relaxing breaks whole me together.

Anyways, I follow the ADA or food exchange program. Its easy to use and follow. It has meal plans for 3000 Kcal to 1200 Kcal daily intake. I'm following the 1800 meal plan and my daughter is following the 1500. I have a high BM ratio, but I just can't stay on the 1500 plan. The plans we have for IDOC is setup for three meals a one snack. A little moving and swapping and you can have up to three small meals and three snacks. I use this arrangement for when I have a 18-22 hour day. The smaller meals and snacks are eaten every three to four hours. I use the regualr three meals and one snack for my weekeneds, when I have actual sitdown meals with the family on my off days, I find that if I limit my time in the kitchen, I limit my cravings for foods.

The plans for a 1800 Kcal a day is broken down to a total of 10 bread/starch, 4 fruit, 4 veggies, 2 milk, 6 meat/protien, and 7 fat servings. I might "swap" a fat for 1.5 protien, if I feel like I "need/want" more meat. But I like my carbs, so I don't swap often. I do keep my breads down to a bagel in the morning and bread for a sandwich for lunch. The rest are potatoes or other starchy veggies.

This has helped me drop 35 pounds of fat since November 2007. My daughter has dropped "only" ten pounds, but is down three pant sizes! She was taken shopping my her spoiling aunt and got two new outfits last night. Nothing sparked her drive for working out like that did! For me, its nice to be able to buy off the regualr rack into of the "big guy" rack. And fitting into your old jeans and not having to prestretch your shirts to get them on. I'm at 295, and have been for the past three weeks. I am still making progress, my relaxed and contracted arm measurements are showing so. And my pants are still getting looser. Muscle feels different than fat, as my wife has pointed out!

Anyways, I just wanted to give a little update on a regular Joes's progress and his teen daughter. And to share the meal plans. Sorry to hijack!

Jerry
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stevecollins33

Jer Bear wrote:
I just wanted to add a little personal note to this great thread, mainly because I can't start a post!
Jerry


Hi Jerry
Good to hear from you. To be honest I think you could lose weight on any diet given the hours you appear to be up and about! Strict dieting, sleep deprivation and a stressful occupation could be harmful. Take care mate.
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Ciccio

stevecollins33 wrote:
Jer Bear wrote:
I just wanted to add a little personal note to this great thread, mainly because I can't start a post!
Jerry

Hi Jerry
Good to hear from you. To be honest I think you could lose weight on any diet given the hours you appear to be up and about! Strict dieting, sleep deprivation and a stressful occupation could be harmful. Take care mate.


Actually sleep deprivation will harm your ability to lose fat fast.
Get more sleep, Jerry, and you will do even better.

Good luck!

Franco

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jastrain

Jer Bear wrote:
I just wanted to add a little personal note to this great thread, mainly because I can't start a post!

Someone asked about a meal plan (aka diet) for lossing weight. I'm a Correctional Food Service Supervisor at a state correctional center here in Illinois. I hold a food handler's permit, and I can stop an over/under portioned tray at ten paces! LOL I work alot of OT and midnights, so I am very sleep deprived. I feel that is I could sleep more than 5 hours at a time, I might waks up with rigoem mortis. But naps and just plain relaxing breaks whole me togethe
Anyways, I follow the ADA or food exchange program. Its easy to use and follow. It has meal plans for 3000 Kcal to 1200 Kcal daily intake. I'm following the 1800 meal plan and my daughter is following the 1500. I have a high BM ratio, but I just can't stay on the 1500 plan. The plans we have for IDOC is setup for three meals a one snack. A little moving and swapping and you can have up to three small meals and three snacks. I use this arrangement for when I have a 18-22 hour day. The smaller meals and snacks are eaten every three to four hours. I use the regualr three meals and one snack for my weekeneds, when I have actual sitdown meals with the family on my off days, I find that if I limit my time in the kitchen, I limit my cravings for foods.

The plans for a 1800 Kcal a day is broken down to a total of 10 bread/starch, 4 fruit, 4 veggies, 2 milk, 6 meat/protien, and 7 fat servings. I might "swap" a fat for 1.5 protien, if I feel like I "need/want" more meat. But I like my carbs, so I don't swap often. I do keep my breads down to a bagel in the morning and bread for a sandwich for lunch. The rest are potatoes or other starchy veggies.

This has helped me drop 35 pounds of fat since November 2007. My daughter has dropped "only" ten pounds, but is down three pant sizes! She was taken shopping my her spoiling aunt and got two new outfits last night. Nothing sparked her drive for working out like that did! For me, its nice to be able to buy off the regualr rack into of the "big guy" rack. And fitting into your old jeans and not having to prestretch your shirts to get them on. I'm at 295, and have been for the past three weeks. I am still making progress, my relaxed and contracted arm measurements are showing so. And my pants are still getting looser. Muscle feels different than fat, as my wife has pointed out!

Anyways, I just wanted to give a little update on a regular Joes's progress and his teen daughter. And to share the meal plans. Sorry to hijack!

Jerry

it sounds like you are an expert nutritionist but, i read somewhere that a bagel with cream cheese is like 720 kcals!!! if you elliminated the bagel and had a big plate of eggs i would imagine you'd drop even more weight and you wouldnt be as hungry. the carbs can make you more hungry than the protiens. just some food for thought
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

jastrain wrote:
Jerry
it sounds like you are an expert nutritionist but, i read somewhere that a bagel with cream cheese is like 720 kcals!!!


Did he say anything about cream cheese?
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Jer Bear

Illinois, USA

jastrain wrote:
Jerry
it sounds like you are an expert nutritionist but, i read somewhere that a bagel with cream cheese is like 720 kcals!!! if you elliminated the bagel and had a big plate of eggs i would imagine you'd drop even more weight and you wouldnt be as hungry. the carbs can make you more hungry than the protiens. just some food for thought


My bagels are 200 cals, and the one ounce of reduced fat/non fat cheese cheese mix I make is only 50 cals (the mix is one pack of reduced fat cream cheese and fat free cheese cheese. We can't gag down the fat free stuff, but this mix is realy good and it cuts the fat in half and the cals per serving by a third). I've seen larger bagels with as much as 800 cals! But they would be around 4 servings of bread/starches. Its all about serving sizes. BTW, you can take a serving of the fat free cream cheese and "stretch" your fat servings, like peanut butter. We mix one serving of each and spread it on rice cakes or bagels or english muffins or as a filling for cerlery sticks for the tykes. Adds more protien also.

Expert nutritionalst? Nah! Nut, after ten years of special diet classes and actual fixing and serving of those diets you get the hang of it.

I know this food plan is higher in carbs than alot of weight lifters like. But it fits our new exercise program and way of eating. We like a few more carbs. I can eat a dozen eggs, and they have no affect on my hunger, almost like high fruc syrup. I eat a bagel w/ my cream cheese mix, two servings of fruit, a serving of milk, and two glasses of water and I'm satisfied til my snack four/three hours later. When I did Adkins I could eat six eggs, four pieces of bacon, and celery with cream cheese and still be counting the minutes to my snack. Now I'm good and don't think when I'm going to be able to eat. Its just another reminder that different folks need different meal plans.

I know I need more sleep! I feel it slows my weight loss alot. I can almost feel my body shutting down when I'm caught working a double shift. The best I can do know is catch power naps and get an hour extra on sleep in the evening. The girls and my wife have helped me out on this, with watching the Young Prince (4 years old) when they get home. I'll be able to get on a better shift in July, so I will limp along til then. The relaxing breaks at work and the power naps have helped me alot. I think about as trying to unwind my stress on my body and small recharges through out my busy schedule. A cheerful additude helps also. My workout partner/daughter helps to puch me and my wife reminds me I'm looking better!

Thanks for the support also! Between Drew Baye's site and here, I've really gained alot of good info and almost completely rewired my thinking of workouts. My daughter's are luckly, this is the only style of training they know and they get to skip the rethinking.

BTW, would it be wise to workout one part of your body only twice a week while working on the rest three time a week? I find that my legs are still noodles on Fridays of my A-B-A routines, but the rest of my body is ready to go. I do Squats/Leg Curls one day and then Deadlifts/Leg Extensions teh next workout. I do the Draw Baye's weight loss A-B routine of eight exercises from his online article. So I do my whole body in one workout, but with different exercises. Anyways, I was thinking of not doing my Wednesday workout with legs. I feel the rest of my body still needs a three a week workout. Is this wise, or should I just drop the Wednesday workout and go to twice a week? My main goal is to lose fat and get healthy!

I've read Dr Darden's book NHIT (in fact I've read him since 1988, when I first started using Natualis equipment in the Air Force) He had the gentleman on a stricter diet plan (1500 instead of my 1800) and doing only five exercises three times a week til he dropped his fat off. I'm wondering if twice a week will still give me the results of weight loss/muscle stregthening that I'm getting now.

Thanks again for the support and sorry about the hijacking! Hope your getting the results you want Jeff!

Jerry

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johyn

hi Ellington, since august 2006 I have worked my way through The New High-Intensity Training book and I am up to the specific workout for the chest. everything is good and I've learned the most important training aspect of HIT- slow positives and slower negatives.

unfortunately, though, I have a nagging back problem. this is from a lifetime of poor posture -should have listened to my mother more. I can do my HIT routines with no problem. except one day after I begin to do squats my back aches ALOT. not a sharp debilitating pain but ACHE. are there herbs I can take to ease this? thanks, johyn
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hey Johyn,

I'm not Dr. Darden, but let me ask you about your form. Your ache may come from excessive arch of forward leaning during the exercise.

Where does the bar sit on your back?
(How high or low?)


Too low will facilitate a more forward positioning (angle) of your torso and more back stress.

Where do you "look" while squatting?

Some sources tell people to look up (perhaps at the junction of wall and ceiling) during squats. I believe this is too high and will cause excessive arch of the back.

The better position is to look straight ahead or even slightly downward to avoid 'pinching' the back.

How deep do you go?
How is your body proportioned? Do you have long legs or a long torso?

I have a long torso and found that going to parallel is plenty for me. Any lower and I wind up with pinched back issues too.

Also, avoid excessive acceleration out of the bottom position, as your legs may push beyond the stabilizing capacity of your back. Keep it slow and smooth.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Scott
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