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Jeff Turner: "I Want to Get Lean."
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

spud wrote:
HIT wrote:
admnautilus wrote:
Weighed in today and took waist measurements. I have lost now just over 16lbs. of fat.

Have you lost 16 pounds of weight or fat?

Basically, have any of the 16 pounds that you have lost been muscle?


Hey Spud,
In simple terms, I don't think I have lost much muscle on this diet. I am staying as strong or stronger than before the diet started. I can't say for sure that no muscle was lost but I have done everthing I can to minimize that loss.

I don't like most fat/bodycomp analyzers. I have three different types and all of them are not that repeatable. Even calipers are not perfect. I have not taken my bodycomp again since the begining. I will at end of diet. The best way to measure is my belt and mirror.

I have seen a dramatic change there. My belt (the small one) is on the last hole. This shows me that fat is coming off my waist. Any way, that is what I know now. Most of loss is from fat but to say that no lean was used is pretty hard to say. Jeff
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Ellington Darden

Rick,

Concerning the 3.83 pounds of fat loss per week average, I was as skeptical as you are . . . until I saw similar results repeatedly. The best answer falls under the heading of SYNERGY. I unravel synergy on page 77 of "A Flat Stomach ASAP."

Ellington
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HIT

Norway

admnautilus wrote:
spud wrote:
HIT wrote:
admnautilus wrote:
Weighed in today and took waist measurements. I have lost now just over 16lbs. of fat.

Have you lost 16 pounds of weight or fat?

Basically, have any of the 16 pounds that you have lost been muscle?

Hey Spud,
In simple terms, I don't think I have lost much muscle on this diet. I am staying as strong or stronger than before the diet started. I can't say for sure that no muscle was lost but I have done everthing I can to minimize that loss.

I don't like most fat/bodycomp analyzers. I have three different types and all of them are not that repeatable. Even calipers are not perfect. I have not taken my bodycomp again since the begining. I will at end of diet. The best way to measure is my belt and mirror.

I have seen a dramatic change there. My belt (the small one) is on the last hole. This shows me that fat is coming off my waist. Any way, that is what I know now. Most of loss is from fat but to say that no lean was used is pretty hard to say. Jeff


If you have lost 19 pounds on a 1500-1200kcal diet what would happen if you would raise your calories to maintenance (lets say 2500-3000kcal) for 5 days?

I think you would gain 4-8 pounds during this period, would this be fat or muscle (or just water)?

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admnautilus

Washington, USA

HIT wrote:
admnautilus wrote:
spud wrote:
HIT wrote:
admnautilus wrote:
Weighed in today and took waist measurements. I have lost now just over 16lbs. of fat.

Have you lost 16 pounds of weight or fat?

Basically, have any of the 16 pounds that you have lost been muscle?

Hey Spud,
In simple terms, I don't think I have lost much muscle on this diet. I am staying as strong or stronger than before the diet started. I can't say for sure that no muscle was lost but I have done everthing I can to minimize that loss.

I don't like most fat/bodycomp analyzers. I have three different types and all of them are not that repeatable. Even calipers are not perfect. I have not taken my bodycomp again since the begining. I will at end of diet. The best way to measure is my belt and mirror.

I have seen a dramatic change there. My belt (the small one) is on the last hole. This shows me that fat is coming off my waist. Any way, that is what I know now. Most of loss is from fat but to say that no lean was used is pretty hard to say. Jeff

If you have lost 19 pounds on a 1500-1200kcal diet what would happen if you would raise your calories to maintenance (lets say 2500-3000kcal) for 5 days?

I think you would gain 4-8 pounds during this period, would this be fat or muscle (or just water)?


Spud,
First of all , I would find where my maintenance metabolism is. My family history is a slow metabolism. I believe
mine is around 2000-2200. This is where I will slowly raise to after I reach my goal.
One thing to remember is that on any calorie reduction, your body starts to slow its metabolism down. This is one reason that I lower my calories every 2 weeks. I start with around 1500-1600 a day then drop by 100 every 2 weeks.
This allows a steady but slow drop. On the other side of this diet ,I will go the other way. I will slowly raise my calories till I see my fat around my waist and weight start to go up. then of course I will manage my calories to keep my calories at a little lower to keep fat off.
My problem has never been eating only 2500-3000 calories a day but not watching them at all. Just eating what ever I wanted. If people don't learn to control their calories on a maintenance type diet they will make mistakes and add fat. Why do 90% of all diets fail? Loss of control. Jeff
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

Spud,
Also about raising calories, to add 4-8 lbs of fat in 8 days, you would have to consume 14,000 extra calories above you normal metabolism. 2500-3000 calories would not be a sufficient number of calories above my maintenance to add that much fat in only 8 days. It is always a numbers game. That said, if I continued eating above maintenace then of course i would gain fat. Jeff
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

Ellington Darden wrote:
Rick,

Concerning the 3.83 pounds of fat loss per week average, I was as skeptical as you are . . . until I saw similar results repeatedly. The best answer falls under the heading of SYNERGY. I unravel synergy on page 77 of "A Flat Stomach ASAP."

Ellington


Thanks. I bought and read that book, some years ago, but it is among the many books, I lent out and never saw again. I think, relatively speaking, losing the fat, will be the easier part, in that it is more straightforward.

Later, gaining muscle while maintaining the same fat level, or even getting leaner, will require, I'm thinking, an even more precise monitoring of calories, body measurements etc.

Do you think it is ok, on a lean building phase to have slightly more calories than needed for maintenance and muscle building, and allow the body to gain some fat, and then say, every few weeks, go to caloric restriction as a "fat adjustment" period?

Thanks for all your feedback.

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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

To Jeff:

Once you reach your goal, do you plan to emulate the David Hudlow creatine loading phase... and if so, any particular creatine you would recommend, or are they all the same?

To Dr. Darden:

I use Metabolic Drive Complete as a meal replacement right now. Are there any other supplements on the Bio Test site, you feel have value?

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Rick
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Ellington Darden

s153015 wrote:
To Jeff:

Once you reach your goal, do you plan to emulate the David Hudlow creatine loading phase... and if so, any particular creatine you would recommend, or are they all the same?

To Dr. Darden:

I use Metabolic Drive Complete as a meal replacement right now. Are there any other supplements on the Bio Test site, you feel have value?

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Rick


I like their protein bars, ZMA, Surge, and German creatine.

Ellington

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Tomboe

To the assembled,

I wanted to throw this thought out to the forum. Like everyone I have my genetic strengths and weaknesses. I am more experienced than most in strength testing/genetic potential assessment.

I have major discrepancies in genetic potential between my upper body and lower body. My legs and low back have very strong genetic potential while my upper back, shoulders, and arm's genetic potential is average at best.

My primary training goal is to cut fat. If my primary training goal was a "balanced physique" I would place very little emphasis on my calves and thighs and concentrate on my "weaknesses" (upper body).

However, since my goal is to lose fat, I believe my emphasis should be on gaining as much overall muscle as possible to burn fat and transform myself "metabolically". Hence, I am "working on my strengths" as my legs and low back have the greatest potential for muscular gains.

I am throwing this out as it may be possible that this sort of consideration might make a big difference in a fat loss situation versus a "physique" situation.

To Burn fat, go to your genetic strengths.

To create a Physique, go to your genetic weaknesses.

Just a thought.

Tomboe.
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zetaximus

Hey Ell, my name is James and I've read a couple of your books and I'm very interested and a little skeptical. Conventional bodybuilding says the amount of kcal a person consumes should depend on their body weight. So why does 1500 the magical number for this?

And also I'm wondering what kind of strength gains someone can expect to have. I go to college with Tom Laputka's son and he was telling me last night of his time with you and Arthur. Very interesting stuff.
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

s153015 wrote:
To Jeff:

Once you reach your goal, do you plan to emulate the David Hudlow creatine loading phase... and if so, any particular creatine you would recommend, or are they all the same?

To Dr. Darden:

I use Metabolic Drive Complete as a meal replacement right now. Are there any other supplements on the Bio Test site, you feel have value?

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Rick

Rick,
I have not thought about adding creatine. I am not much of a supplement kinda guy. It would be fun to see if there were any changes. I will let you know-maybe I will try some for an experiment. Jeff

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Ellington Darden

James,

Those 1500 calories per day are a starting point for many men who want to lose fat. If you are already lean, then I recommend from 18-20 calories per pound of body weight to build maximum muscle.

Strength gains with beginners are typically in the range of 5% per two-week period.

Ellington
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

Ellington Darden wrote:
James,

Those 1500 calories per day are a starting point for many men who want to lose fat. If you are already lean, then I recommend from 18-20 calories per pound of body weight to build maximum muscle.

Strength gains with beginners are typically in the range of 5% per two-week period.

Ellington



Assuming my bodyfat % goal coincides with my current goal of 180 lbs, that would mean 3200-3600 calories. David Hudlow started at 2300 with the creatine loading phase at a weight of 172 (if memory serves).

I assume he would still have been losing fat, while he built muscle, at that point?

He eventually worked up to over 3000 calories over time, I'm assuming, in order to not make a drastic change and suddenly gain fat?....

I'm assuming I should follow a similar model for my lean building phase when I get to it for the same reasons.

Thanks for all your help.

Rick
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

admnautilus wrote:
s153015 wrote:
To Jeff:

Once you reach your goal, do you plan to emulate the David Hudlow creatine loading phase... and if so, any particular creatine you would recommend, or are they all the same?

To Dr. Darden:

I use Metabolic Drive Complete as a meal replacement right now. Are there any other supplements on the Bio Test site, you feel have value?

Thanks to all for your feedback.

Rick
Rick,
I have not thought about adding creatine. I am not much of a supplement kinda guy. It would be fun to see if there were any changes. I will let you know-maybe I will try some for an experiment. Jeff




I've ordered some as well as the other supplements that Dr. Darden referred to. At first I wasn't going to, but impatience got the best of me. My thinking is that proper training should get me to my potential in any case, but that anything that can help me get there faster (what's the rush, this should be a life long thing ;o) ) in any way can provide added motivation.

Thanks for feedback... and continued progress...

Rick
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

Saturday weigh in and waist measurement. I lost 2 more lbs. this week and I am at a total of 21 lbs lost. I have lost a total of 10 1/4" inches off my waist so far. That is a total of the 3 waist measurements. At the navel I have lost over 5" inches total.

There have been some struggles but it is much easier now to stay focused and on track then the first few weeks. using the cold water and more sleep helps alot. I still have a hard time getting to bed earlier but am making an effort. Jeff
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joshpuck

North Carolina, USA

Ugh, I'm jealous. I have lost 20 lbs since the new year but only 2 inches off my waist (at the navel). It's always been my problem area, even when I wrestled in high school at a dehydrated 125lbs I had mini-love-handles.
Thanks for all the updates, I'm enjoying reading them.
-Josh
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

joshpuck wrote:
Ugh, I'm jealous. I have lost 20 lbs since the new year but only 2 inches off my waist (at the navel). It's always been my problem area, even when I wrestled in high school at a dehydrated 125lbs I had mini-love-handles.
Thanks for all the updates, I'm enjoying reading them.
-Josh

Hey Josh,
Thanks for posting. Yes, I still have love handles too. Mine like most of us are last to go. I carry a lot of my weight right at waist, so I probably had more fat there than you to lose. I was reading one of Dr.Dardens books-"A Flat Stomach ASAP" and there was a guy in there by the name of Barry. His handles were very large(in fact the largest Dr.Darden had seen) but by the end of 18 weeks of dieting his were gone!! I am sure with a little more time, yours(and mine,I hope)will be history. Of course that means I have to then try and keep them off. Jeff

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tibix

Dr, Darden,

I am about to start the HIT program, but I have two questions I would like to resolve before I start.

1. How much muscle gain as a hard gainer shall I expect? I know that Mr. Viator gained 45 lbs of muscle and Tim Ferris claims to get 34 lbs of muscle per one month, many experts say that it is metabolically not possible to gain more than 3 - 4 lbs of solid muscle per month no matter what. Where is the truth? What is the average gain of your trainees?

2. How fast shall I do the reps? Some people say that I shall do 2/4 , some say 5/5 some even 10/10 cadence. Shall I do the negative sets to the complete failure after I failed in the positive fashion?

Thank you for your invaluable advice.
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Ellington Darden

An average male gains 1/2 pound of muscle per week, or 3 pounds in six weeks.

Try 3/3 on most exercises. I would not focus on going to negative failure yet.

Ellington
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

Dr. Darden,
Weigh in day. Lost just 1 pound this week. That is OK I know it is a process. I started at just over 210 lbs. and now weigh in at 188.5 lbs. 22lbs of loss in 11 weeks. Life was a little more stressfull this week so some of my extras (sleep and walking) took a hit. Better this coming week.Jeff
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Blashy

Quebec, CAN

Ellington Darden wrote:
An average male gains 1/2 pound of muscle per week, or 3 pounds in six weeks.

Try 3/3 on most exercises. I would not focus on going to negative failure yet.

Ellington


Just want to give reps to you Dr.Darden, seeing you actually take time to participate in this forum is great.


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incrediblechap

So any official wrap up figures or photos? Sounds like you made great progress!
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Ellington Darden

Jeff is due back in Florida on April 4th. The final measurements and photos will follow.

Ellington
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admnautilus

Washington, USA

incrediblechap wrote:
So any official wrap up figures or photos? Sounds like you made great progress!

Thanks,
As Dr.Darden states, I will be in Florida on the 4th of April to do final picts etc. My trip to Medx factory was delayed.
The problem with making good progress and staying with this is now I need to buy some new clothes. Oh well the price of looking better.
More people should take Dr. Darden up on his Intensive Coaching. What can be better than having his expertise and watchful eye on you. I am not blowing this out of porportion - If not for him (the Secret) keeping me on task my success would have been alot less and much harder to achieve. Who else has as much experience at diet and strength than Ellington? This was a tremendous help!! We all need accountability. Jeff

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jweeks

Dr. Darden,

I am 44 yrs. old. I have been following your diet for Phase 1 of the New HIT since Dec. 27. I began at 208 and 26% bodyfat. I am now at 171.5 lbs at 6.7% bf. I actually do have abs. I can't believe it. 37 pounds lost and it feels great and I thank you. I have taken two weeks off and am ready to begin phase 2 monday March 24. I've been on 1300 cals for the last month and half.

I have two questions. I plan on adding 800 cals, 400 from food and 400 from your suggested creatine solution with sugar. I plan on using 3 500 meals and 2 100 snacks at 3 hour intervals for at total of 2100 cals.

Is this enough cals for maximum muscle gain and is my daily calorie distribution ok or should I increase the snacks and lower the meals. Thanks for any input you can provide and thanks for the great book. It is changing my life for the better. Thanks again!
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