"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."
This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.
To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.
Mister Darden, I think I've seen you posting on T-Nation before, or if not, you guys use the same forum software and I'm confused by it...
Anyway, there are guys there like Christian Thibaudeau advocating "eccentricless workouts" and doing mostly concentric work, under the argument that eccetric work is more tiring and makes you take too long to recover, so you can do more volume of concentric and see better long-term progress or something like that.
I really want to see a debate between you guys, it would be really cool. Would you approach T-Nation to set up a round-table for something like that?
It would be cool also to see some moderates in the middle who advocate an equal concentric/eccentric split and other places in between and all that.
Anyone hear of progress being made with these machines?
Sad to say I see more and more "Life Fitness" equipment in gyms. IMO they need more work before they meet what I would consider "minimum" standards.
It would be nice to see fitness machines going in a more positive direction. I am a little disappointing that something that seems worthwhile like Negative-Accentuated has been so quiet.
Referring to Arthur Jones publication "The lumbar spine, the cervical spine and the knee" he states that the ratio between concentric and eccentric strength changes dramatically from fresh to exhausted condition. Thus the current fixed ratio of 40% more negative resistance the X-Force machines provide can not meet this change. Wouldn`t it be possible and make sense to change the starting angle (make it more flat) of the weight stack from rep to rep until local fatigue occurs? It might thereby be possible to bring the level of positive and negative exhaustion in line which would mean an increase in intensity. I might be on the wrong track but what do you think?
Referring to Arthur Jones publication "The lumbar spine, the cervical spine and the knee" he states that the ratio between concentric and eccentric strength changes dramatically from fresh to exhausted condition. Thus the current fixed ratio of 40% more negative resistance the X-Force machines provide can not meet this change. Wouldn`t it be possible and make sense to change the starting angle (make it more flat) of the weight stack from rep to rep until local fatigue occurs? It might thereby be possible to bring the level of positive and negative exhaustion in line which would mean an increase in intensity. I might be on the wrong track but what do you think?
Best wishes
Uli from Germany
Interesting concept. X-Force has mentioned this idea to me, but I don't know how far they've taken it, even in a research setting.
Thanks for your reply, interesting to read because several month ago I informed the research and development department of X-Force about my idea. Regrettably they did not reply but it seems that my idea had find its way. Let`s see what may happens..... . I will inform Werner Kieser to hear what he thinks (I have worked for him several years).
For your information, Mats Thulin of X-Force talked to me about changing the tilting angles of the weight stack on each repetition in November of 2008.
I have discovered that Keiser pneumatic machines allow you to do 100% negative; i.e., eccentric, exercises. With a Keiser you have two pushbuttons that are located on the hand-grips of the machine. You press the add (+) button to add weight, which is done by adding compressed air to a resistance cylinder, and you press the minus (-) button to remove it. A dial tells you how much resistance you have added.
You get on the machine and with no weight you contract your muscle(s). Then you add weight and do the eccentric/negative motion. Then you use the subtract button to release the weight for the next rep. The short amount of time required to do this is the perfect rest period.
The amount of weight that you can add is incredible since you can "lower" much more than you can lift. You can do an intense negative-only set that is not possible with any other kind of machine, even the X-force.
HRM wrote:
I have discovered that Keiser pneumatic machines allow you to do 100% negative; i.e., eccentric, exercises. With a Keiser you have two pushbuttons that are located on the hand-grips of the machine. You press the add (+) button to add weight, which is done by adding compressed air to a resistance cylinder, and you press the minus (-) button to remove it. A dial tells you how much resistance you have added.
You get on the machine and with no weight you contract your muscle(s). Then you add weight and do the eccentric/negative motion. Then you use the subtract button to release the weight for the next rep. The short amount of time required to do this is the perfect rest period.
The amount of weight that you can add is incredible since you can "lower" much more than you can lift. You can do an intense negative-only set that is not possible with any other kind of machine, even the X-force.
Important: The transitions must be smooth and the rest periods, which appear to be needed, are actually a step in the wrong direction.
Important: The transitions must be smooth and the rest periods, which appear to be needed, are actually a step in the wrong direction.
The transitions are extremely smooth and the rest periods can be much shorter than I probably do, but then again, I am 60+. I have read the research, not only what you cite in your book, but many more articles on PubMed. The value of pure eccentric resistance training cannot be overestimated, especially for seniors. The results have been dramatic, at least for me.
I AM INTERESTED IN KNOWING IF YOU HAVE TRAINED TRAINERS IN MY AREA, OR KNOW ANYONE IN THE BOSTON AREA, WHO CAN TRAIN ACCORDING TO YOUR PHILOSOPHY AND APPROACH?
I AM INTERESTED IN KNOWING IF YOU HAVE TRAINED TRAINERS IN MY AREA, OR KNOW ANYONE IN THE BOSTON AREA, WHO CAN TRAIN ACCORDING TO YOUR PHILOSOPHY AND APPROACH?
read you new book Body Fat Breakthrough.I guess I missed it regarding the 30-30-30 workout. Do you perform all upper body exercises first then lower or mix the up? Please advise.
bcapo wrote:
read you new book Body Fat Breakthrough.I guess I missed it regarding the 30-30-30 workout. Do you perform all upper body exercises first then lower or mix the up? Please advise.
I tried a few of the X-Force machines installed in a small gym on Tamborine Mountain in Queensland, Australia. My impression is that they are not user friendly and there is a lag before the negative full load kicks in. Ingenious machines but I wouldn't install them in my gym.
Dr Darden,
I have seen Drew Baye mention that performance improvements during the first 6 to 8 weeks of a new program are primarily due to increase in skill and neuro adaptation. Following the first 6 to 8 week period, performance improvements are based mostly on the increase of actual size and strength; therefore the program itself should remain relatively unchanged for best possible results. I can see the logic in this, but would like to know your thoughts on this? would an alternating routine have a negative effect on the developmental period? Also, because negative accentuated strength training in still new to many of us can we expect a book on how it applies to bodybuilding?
Shane1987 wrote:
Dr Darden,
I have seen Drew Baye mention that performance improvements during the first 6 to 8 weeks of a new program are primarily due to increase in skill and neuro adaptation. Following the first 6 to 8 week period, performance improvements are based mostly on the increase of actual size and strength; therefore the program itself should remain relatively unchanged for best possible results. I can see the logic in this, but would like to know your thoughts on this? would an alternating routine have a negative effect on the developmental period? Also, because negative accentuated strength training in still new to many of us can we expect a book on how it applies to bodybuilding?
Thank you for this nice review.
Does anyone know where can I find that McFadden's bodybuilding magazine? I have a small nice collation of old sports magazine...
Hi Dr Darden
Just a question regarding the use of X-force machines .
I?ve been very fortunate to live within driving distance of an x-force gym in Lancaster UK .
I?ve been trying there since August 17.
I?ve been using HIT since 1977 since meeting Casey Viator at a gym opening event in Newcastle UK in the same year .
I?m advanced in years and ability to train hard ,although average in strength and genes !174lbs @5ft8? thinish bone structure .
The question is this would there be any advantage to lowering the time underload to less than 60secs given the potential to inroad is now achieved more rapidly . Or would greater intensity/inroad be better if I stuck to 1minute plus.
I have your latest book on this but most of the subjects are new to Hit ,there are some body builders included , I appreciate that , but what advice would you give to advanced HIT trainees regarding number of exercises ,reps etc ,like myself who have several years or even decades under our belt , I also honestly understand that at 58 the genetic cup is probably full , but for the sake of argument let?s say I?m wrong !
Look forward to your reply .
Thanks for all the advice of the years .
Still have your book eating for athletic performance from 77 , well thumbed !
Kind regards ,David L Smith
Smiffy wrote:
Hi Dr Darden
Just a question regarding the use of X-force machines .
I?ve been very fortunate to live within driving distance of an x-force gym in Lancaster UK .
I?ve been trying there since August 17.
I?ve been using HIT since 1977 since meeting Casey Viator at a gym opening event in Newcastle UK in the same year .
I?m advanced in years and ability to train hard ,although average in strength and genes !174lbs @5ft8? thinish bone structure .
The question is this would there be any advantage to lowering the time underload to less than 60secs given the potential to inroad is now achieved more rapidly . Or would greater intensity/inroad be better if I stuck to 1minute plus.
I have your latest book on this but most of the subjects are new to Hit ,there are some body builders included , I appreciate that , but what advice would you give to advanced HIT trainees regarding number of exercises ,reps etc ,like myself who have several years or even decades under our belt , I also honestly understand that at 58 the genetic cup is probably full , but for the sake of argument let?s say I?m wrong !
Look forward to your reply .
Thanks for all the advice of the years .
Still have your book eating for athletic performance from 77 , well thumbed !
Kind regards ,David L Smith
David,
Given that you have access to X-Force equipment, I believe you are correct in keeping your exercise duration to 60 seconds or less. That's about 6 or 7 reps per X-Force machine, with one exception. I would do higher reps, 8-12, on the Leg Press.
I would also suggest no more than 8 different exercises per workout. And keep your frequency at twice a week.
Thank you , will try this out , and report back .
Have lost 8lbs and added 4lbs muscle in 4months so far .
Thanks again for time out to answer this question
Dave .
I am currently reading your books and I like your pragmatic approach to a most underrated protocol of exercise.
As far as machines that maximize eccentric contractions, I'm curious if you've had a chance to experience Adaptive Resistance Exercise (ARX)?
ARX uses programmed motorized resistance instead of weight. So whatever level of force the user applies to the machine it applies back. It makes it possible to do supramaximal eccentric resistance. It functions like a lot of common weight machines but it never commits the user to a level of resistance they can't handle. Have you taken a look at it? What do you think?
