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sirloin

Ray200 wrote:
Hi Rob,
Yes, just wondering. I seem to recall you did squats for a while and wasn't sure if you'd decided enough was enough considering your back problems. If you get equal or better results with machines, go for it. Access to 3 gyms ... perfect.

Best,
R


Hey Ray,
Thats correct, about a year or so ago i got more into free weight lifting for a while. Squats, bent over rows, standing military press and DB benching were the counterstones. I got pretty strong at the upper body presses, but with the squats and rows my low back just too limiting.

leverage style leg presses allow me to train my legs harder without any issues. There again a chest supported rows, neutral grip pulldowns etc allow me to train my back harder.

I like training on different machines because each brand has its movement pattern, if i train on the same chest machine for example, i start feeling it in the joints, but by freqency changing the equipment used theres no issues.

Again, this is just my personal preferance, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells are still awesome tools which have served many well:)


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hit4me

Florida, USA

sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
Hi Rob,
Yes, just wondering. I seem to recall you did squats for a while and wasn't sure if you'd decided enough was enough considering your back problems. If you get equal or better results with machines, go for it. Access to 3 gyms ... perfect.

Best,
R

Hey Ray,
Thats correct, about a year or so ago i got more into free weight lifting for a while. Squats, bent over rows, standing military press and DB benching were the counterstones. I got pretty strong at the upper body presses, but with the squats and rows my back just too limiting.

leverage style leg presses allow me to train my legs harder without any issues. There again a chest supported rows, neutral grip pulldowns etc allow me to train my back harder.

I like training on different machines because each brand has its movement pattern, if i train on the same chest machine for example, i start feeling it in the joints, but by freqency changing the equipment used theres no issues.

Again, this is just my personal preferance, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells are still awesome tools which have served many well:)




I am in the same boat, I train exclusively on machines as I can focus my effort on each rep without thinking about balance and skill. I too used to use the barbell, dumbbell etc in my younger years...it gave me strength and size and it was fun. But now that I am older and my body can't handle the positions of the squat and barbell row and deadlift, I have resorted to machines (nautilus, hammer, life and matrix). the only free weight I use is for the forearms.

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sirloin

Hey H4M, yeap the boat ain't as sexy, but it still sails to were you wanta go:)

Over the years have had so many things said to me, and abuse hurled at me simply because my preference is machines.

Things like "oh you cant back squat brah" Have you tried raising your heels? What about Front squats? Hack Squats? Step ups? Lunges? Reverse lunges? Wall sits? Split squats? Zercher squats? Lap squats? Sissy squats? Piston squats? Jefferson squats? Hip belt squats? Trap bar deadlifts? Goblet squats? Overhead squats? Zane leg blaster squats? Kettlebell front squats? Dumbell squats?
Basically every bastardisd version of a squat under the sun in an attempt to not use a leg press machine lol. One asshole who's a friend of my training partner actually said to me recently that machines are for lazy faggots. I responded "rich coming from someone who's lived on benefits and never done a days work in his life". I went on "how am I lazy if a machines premits me to train my muscles harder???

Back in my teens it was "Oh, all guys like Arnold and Lou had was free weights", to which I would respond "ive seen pumping iron and pictures from that era, it shows them using T-Bar Rows (a fixed movement), cable rows, cable crossovers, cable crunches, pulldowns, calf raise machines, leg extensions, leg curls, smith machine presses etc.

Today, its all about "functional training", stronglifts, Rippetoes starting strength, crossfit etc, which suits me down to the ground, you cant get near the free weight areas in the gyms I attend, so I have the machines mostly to myself haha.

Best
Rob
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hit4me

Florida, USA

sirloin wrote:
Hey H4M, yeap the boat ain't as sexy, but it still sails to were you wanta go:)

Over the years have had so many things said to me, and abuse hurled at me simply because my preference is machines.

Things like "oh you cant back squat brah" Have you tried raising your heels? What about Front squats? Hack Squats? Step ups? Lunges? Reverse lunges? Wall sits? Split squats? Zercher squats? Lap squats? Sissy squats? Piston squats? Jefferson squats? Hip belt squats? Trap bar deadlifts? Goblet squats? Overhead squats? Zane leg blaster squats? Kettlebell front squats, Dumbell squats?
Basically every bastardisd version of a squat under the sun in an attempt to not use a leg press machine lol. One asshole who's a friend of my training partner actually said to me recently that machines are for lazy faggots. I responded "rich coming from someone who's lived on benefits and never done a days work in his life". I went on "how am I lazy if a machines premits me to train my muscles harder???

Back in my teens it was "Oh, guys like Arnold and Lou had was free weights", to which I would respond "ive seen pumping iron and pictures from that era, it shows them using T-Bar Rows (a fixed movement), cable rows, cable crossovers, cable crunches, pulldowns, calf raise machines, leg extensions, leg curls, smith machine presses etc.

Today, its all about "functional training", stronglifts, Rippetoes starting strength, crossfit etc, which suits me down to the ground, you cant get near the free weight areas in the gyms I attend, so I have the machines mostly to myself haha.

Best
Rob


damn, your friends are pretty rough on ya.....my friends see my results...I had one guy ask why I am doing a set like I do, so I had him sit on the leg press and I adjusted the weight to the weight I use and told him to do a 4 sec positive, 4 second hold and 4 second negative.....he could only get 4 reps, where I can get 12 reps...and he squats and does leg presses all the time, hahaha

and I told him that I am in and out of the gym and I can enjoy other hobbies where he spends hours in the gym and for what.

look up Arnold and franco on youtube and today they are using machines

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Ray200

sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
Hi Rob,
Yes, just wondering. I seem to recall you did squats for a while and wasn't sure if you'd decided enough was enough considering your back problems. If you get equal or better results with machines, go for it. Access to 3 gyms ... perfect.

Best,
R

Hey Ray,
Thats correct, about a year or so ago i got more into free weight lifting for a while. Squats, bent over rows, standing military press and DB benching were the counterstones. I got pretty strong at the upper body presses, but with the squats and rows my low back just too limiting.

leverage style leg presses allow me to train my legs harder without any issues. There again a chest supported rows, neutral grip pulldowns etc allow me to train my back harder.

I like training on different machines because each brand has its movement pattern, if i train on the same chest machine for example, i start feeling it in the joints, but by freqency changing the equipment used theres no issues.

Again, this is just my personal preferance, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells are still awesome tools which have served many well:)




Quite right, Rob. The main thing is, "Do no harm". Free weights and machines are just tools to be used as required. If you're getting bigger/stronger, who cares about the method.
Surprised to read, though, that you've had problems with the belt squat. I ditched the squat years ago for this and still think the h.b.s. is the best variant. A b%@!$*d to set up though!

R
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sirloin

hit4me wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Hey H4M, yeap the boat ain't as sexy, but it still sails to were you wanta go:)

Over the years have had so many things said to me, and abuse hurled at me simply because my preference is machines.

Things like "oh you cant back squat brah" Have you tried raising your heels? What about Front squats? Hack Squats? Step ups? Lunges? Reverse lunges? Wall sits? Split squats? Zercher squats? Lap squats? Sissy squats? Piston squats? Jefferson squats? Hip belt squats? Trap bar deadlifts? Goblet squats? Overhead squats? Zane leg blaster squats? Kettlebell front squats, Dumbell squats?
Basically every bastardisd version of a squat under the sun in an attempt to not use a leg press machine lol. One asshole who's a friend of my training partner actually said to me recently that machines are for lazy faggots. I responded "rich coming from someone who's lived on benefits and never done a days work in his life". I went on "how am I lazy if a machines premits me to train my muscles harder???

Back in my teens it was "Oh, guys like Arnold and Lou had was free weights", to which I would respond "ive seen pumping iron and pictures from that era, it shows them using T-Bar Rows (a fixed movement), cable rows, cable crossovers, cable crunches, pulldowns, calf raise machines, leg extensions, leg curls, smith machine presses etc.

Today, its all about "functional training", stronglifts, Rippetoes starting strength, crossfit etc, which suits me down to the ground, you cant get near the free weight areas in the gyms I attend, so I have the machines mostly to myself haha.

Best
Rob


damn, your friends are pretty rough on ya.....my friends see my results...I had one guy ask why I am doing a set like I do, so I had him sit on the leg press and I adjusted the weight to the weight I use and told him to do a 4 sec positive, 4 second hold and 4 second negative.....he could only get 4 reps, where I can get 12 reps...and he squats and does leg presses all the time, hahaha

and I told him that I am in and out of the gym and I can enjoy other hobbies where he spends hours in the gym and for what.

look up Arnold and franco on youtube and today they are using machines



Haha, did something similar with my nephew a few years ago on the leverage leg press, id him go to failure, controlled reps, no knee locking etc. After about 17 reps with about 250kg he was done. I lay on the machine for a bit then pulled himself up (looking paler than normal), he then made a v line for the fire exit door, kicked it open and throw up in the car park lol...haha good times;)
After several workouts like that (one a week) he was at 400kg for 10 reps.

Like yourself, am in and out, usually 30-40 minutes and am done (i take 3-5 mintues between max efforts).

Seen that video of Arnold and Franco lol,i think many people are also unaware that early in Arnolds career he spent several months training in a small gym and family in England which had mostly home made machines.

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sirloin

Ray200 wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
Hi Rob,
Yes, just wondering. I seem to recall you did squats for a while and wasn't sure if you'd decided enough was enough considering your back problems. If you get equal or better results with machines, go for it. Access to 3 gyms ... perfect.

Best,
R

Hey Ray,
Thats correct, about a year or so ago i got more into free weight lifting for a while. Squats, bent over rows, standing military press and DB benching were the counterstones. I got pretty strong at the upper body presses, but with the squats and rows my low back just too limiting.

leverage style leg presses allow me to train my legs harder without any issues. There again a chest supported rows, neutral grip pulldowns etc allow me to train my back harder.

I like training on different machines because each brand has its movement pattern, if i train on the same chest machine for example, i start feeling it in the joints, but by freqency changing the equipment used theres no issues.

Again, this is just my personal preferance, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells are still awesome tools which have served many well:)




Quite right, Rob. The main thing is, "Do no harm". Free weights and machines are just tools to be used as required. If you're getting bigger/stronger, who cares about the method.
Surprised to read, though, that you've had problems with the belt squat. I ditched the squat years ago for this and still think the h.b.s. is the best variant. A b%@!$*d to set up though!

R


Hey Ray,
Hip.belts squats are a decent movement, but like you mention a nightmare to set up (unless youve a cool device like Turpin has). What am really just pointing out, is that proponents of free weights would do just about anything to avoid using a machine. I mean Rippetoe actually made this statement "the leg press is a gay exercise" or Gironda's statement "machines look smart, but you have to be dumb to use them, wereas barbells look dumb, but you have to be smart to use them properly" (strange comment from someone who advocated using leg extensions / curls, hack squat machines, cables etc), this is the kind of nonesense im against, and this belief still around today. Today i overheard a teen trainee say to his teen training partner "machines are shite, all there good for is as a finishers". I thought to myself...if free weights are so good at stimulating growth, then whats a "finnisher" on a "shite machine" gonna do that the free weights havent done aleady?

In my opinion, Mike Mentzer said it best years ago when he said "the proponents of free weights would have you believe that mankind has benefited enormously from scientific techology and mechanisation in every area of his life apart from when it comes to bodybuilding".

Sorry, long winded answer Ray lol
Best
Rob


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sirloin

So far am down 6lbs, finding certian aspects of the diet very difficult though, i hadnt eating meat for years until 2 weeks ago. After eating it, it felt like a lead weight in my stomach, was making constipated too (prob a shock to my system). So ive taken the meat out for now and have added in a little fish twice per week. I seem to do much better with organic grass fed whey, organic free range eggs and Icelandic Skyer yougart (made in Germany from grass fed cows). Am also upping my carb intake a little, bringing it up till 150-200grams per day (main sources being fresh egg pasta, a little super seeded bread, spuds of different kinds and some simple sugars post workout).

Protein around the same as the carbs and fats are 100-120 grams daily (mct oil, grass fed ghee, home made nut butters, egg yolks, fish oil etc). So at the high end calories are sitting around 2680, low end around 2100. I'll adjust these numbers according as to how fast my weight is dropping and my preformance at the gym etc. Am in no hurry to drop fat fast, my priority is the maintence of lean mass..slow and steady as she goes!!





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sirloin

Couple more supplements added to my list...
Genoma Cardia is to suppprt healthy cardiovascular function and the Nomad is for epigentic support in my geno type (my geneticist friend tested my geno type).
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Ray200

sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
Hi Rob,
Yes, just wondering. I seem to recall you did squats for a while and wasn't sure if you'd decided enough was enough considering your back problems. If you get equal or better results with machines, go for it. Access to 3 gyms ... perfect.

Best,
R

Hey Ray,
Thats correct, about a year or so ago i got more into free weight lifting for a while. Squats, bent over rows, standing military press and DB benching were the counterstones. I got pretty strong at the upper body presses, but with the squats and rows my low back just too limiting.

leverage style leg presses allow me to train my legs harder without any issues. There again a chest supported rows, neutral grip pulldowns etc allow me to train my back harder.

I like training on different machines because each brand has its movement pattern, if i train on the same chest machine for example, i start feeling it in the joints, but by freqency changing the equipment used theres no issues.

Again, this is just my personal preferance, barbells, dumbbells, kettlebells are still awesome tools which have served many well:)




Quite right, Rob. The main thing is, "Do no harm". Free weights and machines are just tools to be used as required. If you're getting bigger/stronger, who cares about the method.
Surprised to read, though, that you've had problems with the belt squat. I ditched the squat years ago for this and still think the h.b.s. is the best variant. A b%@!$*d to set up though!

R

Hey Ray,
Hip.belts squats are a decent movement, but like you mention a nightmare to set up (unless youve a cool device like Turpin has). What am really just pointing out, is that proponents of free weights would do just about anything to avoid using a machine. I mean Rippetoe actually made this statement "the leg press is a gay exercise" or Gironda's statement "machines look smart, but you have to be dumb to use them, wereas barbells look dumb, but you have to be smart to use them properly" (strange comment from someone who advocated using leg extensions / curls, hack squat machines, cables etc), this is the kind of nonesense im against, and this belief still around today. Today i overheard a teen trainee say to his teen training partner "machines are shite, all there good for is as a finishers". I thought to myself...if free weights are so good at stimulating growth, then whats a "finnisher" on a "shite machine" gonna do that the free weights havent done aleady?

In my opinion, Mike Mentzer said it best years ago when he said "the proponents of free weights would have you believe that mankind has benefited enormously from scientific techology and mechanisation in every area of his life apart from when it comes to bodybuilding".

Sorry, long winded answer Ray lol
Best
Rob




Yup, I agree. I've only got access to free weights but I always mixed things up in the past if I was able to use machines. Sadly, the macho thing keeps intruding on the pros and cons of weightlifting and machines in particular. Dave Tate was quite complimentary but the likes of Rippetoe less so.

Best,
Ray
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sirloin

Had to take a 5 day layoff this week due to a back flair up, have had to load up on pills, could barely turn in bed a few of the nights. Resumed training today, i give my body a day to let the drugs clear out of my system a bit, probably should have left it for another day though

Making a few adjustments for a few weeks until my back is a bit better, for my back the only exercise will be neutral grip sterum pulldowns, they cause no pain, wereas even chest suppprted rows can cause me issues when my backs like this.
On the Leverage leg press, ill go with ethier lighter piston style reps (shorter range / not too deep and no lock out), or static holds.

Also avoiding the plate loaded machines, again so i dont have to load and umloaded them.

Were theres a will:)
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hit4me

Florida, USA

sirloin wrote:
Had to take a 5 day layoff this week due to a back flair up, have had to load up on pills, could barely turn in bed a few of the nights. Resumed training today, i give my body a day to let the drugs clear out of my system a bit, probably should have left it for another day though

Making a few adjustments for a few weeks until my back is a bit better, for my back the only exercise will be neutral grip sterum pulldowns, they cause no pain, wereas even chest suppprted rows can cause me issues when my backs like this.
On the Leverage leg press, ill go with ethier lighter piston style reps (shorter range / not too deep and no lock out), or static holds.

Also avoiding the plate loaded machines, again so i dont have to load and umloaded them.

Were theres a will:)


I understand your pain when it comes to the back

have you ever tried massage therapy or chiropractic adjustments

whenever I get back flare-ups, I visit my chiro and she does a great job relieving the pain by adjusting my back, I also get a massage and lightly stretch numerous times a day...this helps tremendously

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sirloin

hit4me wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Had to take a 5 day layoff this week due to a back flair up, have had to load up on pills, could barely turn in bed a few of the nights. Resumed training today, i give my body a day to let the drugs clear out of my system a bit, probably should have left it for another day though

Making a few adjustments for a few weeks until my back is a bit better, for my back the only exercise will be neutral grip sterum pulldowns, they cause no pain, wereas even chest suppprted rows can cause me issues when my backs like this.
On the Leverage leg press, ill go with ethier lighter piston style reps (shorter range / not too deep and no lock out), or static holds.

Also avoiding the plate loaded machines, again so i dont have to load and umloaded them.

Were theres a will:)

I understand your pain when it comes to the back

have you ever tried massage therapy or chiropractic adjustments

whenever I get back flare-ups, I visit my chiro and she does a great job relieving the pain by adjusting my back, I also get a massage and lightly stretch numerous times a day...this helps tremendously


Hey mate,

I know a lot of people swear by chiro's, but i cant say am one of them. I know too many indivduals who were worse off after being "treated" by highly recommended practitioners.

Message therapy is something i have a bit more time for, but is something i very rarely would have done. For me the best pain reliever is training, But when i back flairs up like it did last week i gotta just ride the storm out. Ive actually several herniated dics throught my spine, one in particular is pretty bad though (L1/L2), its lilely ill require surgery at some point.


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sirloin

Lunch time workout today...

Neutral thumbless grip pulldowns supersetted with Flat shoulder width thumbless grip smith machine benches. On the benches i used a slight rest pause in the bottom position of each rep.
Performed 5 sets of 6 reps on each of the movements, pulldown @ 220lb, bench was 225lb.
For fun, finnished up with some thumnlesd static holds on the preacher curl machine,
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Frank Scott

You shouldn't be training
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sirloin

Frank Scott wrote:
You shouldn't be training


Hi Frank, you may well be right, but training actually is for me a great pain reliever, moreso than anything else.

I was actually at the biggest sporting event of the year here in Northern Ireland on the weekend, the North West 200, its a huge road racing motor cycling event that draws in thousands from all over the world here every year, on the likes of the 750cc bikes youve riders firing down country roads at speeds of up till 200mph. Nearly every year a someone gets killed.

The prize money isnt all that good, so why do they do it? Because its in their blood, its their passion in life, you might even say its an obsession. If someone said to them "you should be do that" or "do it, but dont go so fast" id wonder what they'd say?

For myself, my passion is strength / resistance training, am not a strongman, powerlifter or bodybuilder or anything like that, just an everyday bloke that loves to train and challenge himself in the gym. I do take precautions, however nothing nor no one will deter me from doing what I love to do, nor water down my efforts.

As I pointed out on the first page of this log, I recent buried a close family member whom was a fit clean living man all his live, he died at a very average age, he'd advance cancer of the blatter and Parkisons. My Mother who has also been a fit healthy woman all her life is also dying from kindey failure, shes 70, however at 50 she suffered a massive brain hemorrhage, and in her 60s suffered breast cancer twice. My point is this, there is no guarantee that rapping ones self in cotton wool will result in a longer and/or better life. Ive no plans of retiring from what I love to do anytime soon:)

Best
Rob



















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Frank Scott

I do understand. I am also addicted to lifting
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ron33

Rob , Hate to hear about your back condition that keeps u from training the way u like. By chance have u tried reverse hyperextensions,I have read several articles over the yrs. of power and Olympic lifters that had bad back injuries to their disks , they started doing them and over time were able to avoid surgery .. and get back to where they felt pretty good again . Just a thought ,hope it can help ...
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sirloin

Frank Scott wrote:
I do understand. I am also addicted to lifting


I guess am what Mike M would have reffered to as a stimulus addict, Of course, he had hes vices too lol.
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sirloin

ron33 wrote:
Rob , Hate to hear about your back condition that keeps u from training the way u like. By chance have u tried reverse hyperextensions,I have read several articles over the yrs. of power and Olympic lifters that had bad back injuries to their disks , they started doing them and over time were able to avoid surgery .. and get back to where they felt pretty good again . Just a thought ,hope it can help ...


Hey Ron, thanks man. Thankfully it doesnt hold me back too much. I havent actully tried those, but thats something will look into. My back wasnt feeling too bad today, so before i hit the lever leg press i did a few meduim weighted sets of kettlebell front squats, word round the camp fire is their good for the core and thoracic. Alone with that ive also salted in some static banded core holds, Kneeling on the back leg and the front leg bent, then holding the band directly in front of me (tension coming from a side angle). Was tough but give some good relief.

Not sure about this, maybe someone could correct me if am wrong, but i am right in saying the lower back is an area that takes longer to recover?

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HeavyHitter32

You may know this already, but make sure on the leg press you don't lower your legs too low as that can have the tendency to allow the glutes to come off the seat putting lower back at risk.
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Ray200

I'd be wary of reverse hypers. I've heard of lifters who have exacerbated the damage to their already damaged backs by using this. A training partner of a friend tried it, felt great for 20 minutes, no pain or stiffness, then woke up next day in agony. Never having had the chance to use one, unless you count lying on a bench with a dumbbell between my feet, I can't comment on the pros and cons. But with your history of back pain, I would look at the whole picture before committing to it. As a glute/ham exercise it looks great, but for rehab ... well, read the literature and make your own judgement.

Best,
Ray
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sirloin

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
You may know this already, but make sure on the leg press you don't lower your legs too low as that can have the tendency to allow the glutes to come off the seat putting lower back at risk.


Hey HH,

Thanks mate, yes this is something am congisant of, i use a lever style LP that can be set to a safe depth. But ive seen many cases of what that, akk makes me cringe every time.
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sirloin

Ray200 wrote:
I'd be wary of reverse hypers. I've heard of lifters who have exacerbated the damage to their already damaged backs by using this. A training partner of a friend tried it, felt great for 20 minutes, no pain or stiffness, then woke up next day in agony. Never having had the chance to use one, unless you count lying on a bench with a dumbbell between my feet, I can't comment on the pros and cons. But with your history of back pain, I would look at the whole picture before committing to it. As a glute/ham exercise it looks great, but for rehab ... well, read the literature and make your own judgement.

Best,
Ray


Hey Ray, thanks for the info mate, whenever trying out anything new i always take it real easy. At the mo i use a seated back extension, seated belted in, i also limit the range of motion, not over extening and not over bending. I perform a couple of sets with in and around 300-350lb once a week. Seems to help with pain relief. But when i up the frequency on this particalur movement, i get the reverse effect.

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hit4me

Florida, USA

sirloin wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
I'd be wary of reverse hypers. I've heard of lifters who have exacerbated the damage to their already damaged backs by using this. A training partner of a friend tried it, felt great for 20 minutes, no pain or stiffness, then woke up next day in agony. Never having had the chance to use one, unless you count lying on a bench with a dumbbell between my feet, I can't comment on the pros and cons. But with your history of back pain, I would look at the whole picture before committing to it. As a glute/ham exercise it looks great, but for rehab ... well, read the literature and make your own judgement.

Best,
Ray

Hey Ray, thanks for the info mate, whenever trying out anything new i always take it real easy. At the mo i use a seated back extension, seated belted in, i also limit the range of motion, not over extening and not over bending. I perform a couple of sets with in and around 300-350lb once a week. Seems to help with pain relief. But when i up the frequency on this particalur movement, i get the reverse effect.



if you have read about Arthur Jones writings pertaining to the back and injuries, he indicated you only need one set once a week or once every two weeks...it takes that long to recover from the workout

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