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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Arthur Jones & Nutrition
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henry_bordeaux

I`ve read almost everything from AJ, but there isn`t much about nutrition...
So, i`ve got some questions:
1)Does anyone know (maybe Dr. Darden himself) how many kcal casey was consuming during the colorado experiment and what he ate?
2)and how many kcal and what was casey consuming while doing normal training (1971 prior to the Mr. A contest)?
3)if i`m eating a bit less than what i need for maintaining my bodyweight...because i want to loose some fat.(not much, just from 14% to maybe 10)..and if i`m also able to increase my poundages in a reasonable way...will i loose fat while building muscle or is that just impossible except for beginnners (stu mcrobert writes something like this)...can i have the best of both worlds or not?
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Dustin Jordan

Florida, USA

Hi, Henry.
Your first question was answered on a previous post. During the experiment, Casey consumed between 4000 and 6000 cals. a day. The larger number more towards the end. All we know is that AJ made sure he ate at a "greasy spoon" every day. I hope others will be able to help you with your other questions. Good Luck.
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crazeeJZ

henry_bordeaux wrote:
I`ve read almost everything from AJ, but there isn`t much about nutrition...
So, i`ve got some questions:
1)Does anyone know (maybe Dr. Darden himself) how many kcal casey was consuming during the colorado experiment and what he ate?
2)and how many kcal and what was casey consuming while doing normal training (1971 prior to the Mr. A contest)?
3)if i`m eating a bit less than what i need for maintaining my bodyweight...because i want to loose some fat.(not much, just from 14% to maybe 10)..and if i`m also able to increase my poundages in a reasonable way...will i loose fat while building muscle or is that just impossible except for beginnners (stu mcrobert writes something like this)...can i have the best of both worlds or not?


It might be possible to lose a little fat and gain a little muscle at the same time, depending on the individual, but it's not possible to maximize both at the same time, meaning, you can't get optimal results from both at the same time.
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Widsith

Wisconsin, USA

According to body composition tests I had done this year, I lost 38 pounds of fat while gaining 5 pounds of muscle. The weight gain came when I started doing the HIT protocol Dr. Darden promotes. Before that, I was doing the Mike Mentzer workout. And before that, I was doing the HVT workouts with tons of aerobic activity and not losing a pound, but getting weaker.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, so it would not stand up to scientific standards, but it shows me that it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

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crazeeJZ

Widsith wrote:
According to body composition tests I had done this year, I lost 38 pounds of fat while gaining 5 pounds of muscle. The weight gain came when I started doing the HIT protocol Dr. Darden promotes. Before that, I was doing the Mike Mentzer workout. And before that, I was doing the HVT workouts with tons of aerobic activity and not losing a pound, but getting weaker.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence, so it would not stand up to scientific standards, but it shows me that it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.



Hey, if you did it, it should be scientific enough for anyone who wants to lose fat and gain muscle to try. What was the time frame that you lost the fat and gained the muscle?
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waynegr

Switzerland

Well hit there,
I expect you all might have read the following, but here it is the people whom have not.
Casey writes in his new book, (Total Fitnes, only available from his site www.caseyviator.com) his side and Arthur's. of the Colorado Exp.) Casey states, in the Colorado Exp. That the fat content, was tried to be keep down, in the 6 to 8 meals a day. But about any form of protein was a fair game, and 500 grams a day was eat, (which is surprising, but remember it's 1973, but the Colorado, did work in a big way) Carbohydrates, were consumed to a minimum, although some were consumed 45 min. before workouts.
Arthur, stated, It is the author's fourth contention that nothing in the way of a special diet is required, so long as a reasonably well balanced diet is provided.

Arthur, also states, when people, who have been brainwashed into believing that bodybuilding is 80% instead of being 80%, bodybuilding is 100% nutrition but only if you don't eat. just try going without food for a week and see what happens to your body.

Secondary Growth Factors
Regardless of how hard you work in the gym there are certain factors that must be provided if growth is to occur. These factors are: nutrition, adequate rest, avoidance of overwork (i.e. overtraining) and psychological factors. Nutrition, is one that Arthur was reluctant to place emphasis on. While it is true that continued growth cannot occur without proper nutrition there is no need for this to be a point of fanatic endeavor. The calling for large amounts of calories and protein has primarily come from those who wish to capitalize on the sale of large amounts of supplements to support outrageous diets. Though some supplements and supplemental protein/calories can be very useful and convenient, especially for hard gainers.

Can not find anything else Arthur, says on nutrition, hope this helps.

By the way Dustin where you get your info from please.

Thank you Wayne


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Widsith

Wisconsin, USA

crazeeJZ wrote:
Hey, if you did it, it should be scientific enough for anyone who wants to lose fat and gain muscle to try. What was the time frame that you lost the fat and gained the muscle?


It is anecdotal because there was no control. I only used one kind of test and have no real idea of the accuracy of that test. I listed the company in another post, and the printouts are not handy right now. I think it was bioanalogic or something, an electrical impedance test. Finally, it is anecdotal because I have no proof to offer besides a printout and the word of a friend who administered the tests. A proper scientific study would have involved more stringent methods.

From February 21 to July 6, I lost about 14 pounds of fat and gained no muscle. This was on Mentzer's routine. In July, I wrenched my back deadlifting with too much momentum and bad form, which led to me bouncing the weight at the bottom. I took a couple weeks off and spent them looking for safer exercises. I eventually ended up at the old classic x site and read the superslow article Dr. Darden reposted above. From August to mid-September I followed that routine. Then I started using the same exercises, but at a faster cadence until the new book came out, at which point I started the 6 month routine. The main thing was that I switched from a once every 4-5 certain body parts per workout routine to a 3 day a week full body routine. I bring this up only because between July 6 and October 2, I lost 24 pounds of fat and gained 5 pounds of muscle. So I went from losing a pound of fat a week and not gaining any muscle to losing 2 pounds of fat a week and gaining 5 pounds of muscle.

My last test was October 2nd. My bodyweight was 208. This Saturday, the 23rd, my bodyweight was 204. Monday it was higher, 206, but I ate a lot of salty foods over the weekend and had a few beers, so I expected some water retention. By this Saturday, I expect to be near 202.

One interesting note, the whole time I was doing Mentzer's routine, I still saw myself as fat. When I started Dr. Darden's routines, I started to see myself as having lost the weight I lost. Not sure what the psychology of that is.

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JJ McClinton

Hey Waynegr,
I really wouldn't believe very much of what Casey Viator puts in his books. I bought one of his books one or two years ago and besides being one of the most poorely written books on weight training that I ever read Casey also states that he traines his clients four times a week in split body part training (which is okay but, four times a week?)and also that supposedly all his clients have at least 60% of there diet be protein. Also somewhere on the internet on a fan website for him in an interview he states that Arthur admitted to him that one set wasn't sufficient for anyone to see results for. I would look at one of the articles in Nautilus Bulletin 2 where even Arthur states that Casey, who by this time had trained with Arthur for close to three years still had no grasp for how to actually train when Arthur wasn't around. He says that Casey started training nearly every day of the week at lower intensity and gradually got fat before Arthur stepped in and trained him again. My advice stick with a diet that is high carbs (close to non-processed)and just try to get your weight requirements in protein throughtout the day. I use to eat close to 300grams of protein throughout the day and nada, nothing happened training and muscle wise. Now I eat closely to what Mr.Darden states and see great results
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Dustin Jordan

Florida, USA

Wayne,
I read the info I posted in a previous post by Dr. Darden answering the same question. Unfortunatly, there's no archive for the older posts from this forum. Also, there is an article on Dave Draper's website by Steve Wedan. This article discusses Steve's experiences with AJ and Casey. During a meeting with Casey, Steve asks him the same question, and Casey used the same phrase that Dr. Darden used. " Greasy Spoon.":-)
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crazeeJZ

Widsith wrote:
crazeeJZ wrote:
Hey, if you did it, it should be scientific enough for anyone who wants to lose fat and gain muscle to try. What was the time frame that you lost the fat and gained the muscle?


It is anecdotal because there was no control. I only used one kind of test and have no real idea of the accuracy of that test. I listed the company in another post, and the printouts are not handy right now. I think it was bioanalogic or something, an electrical impedance test. Finally, it is anecdotal because I have no proof to offer besides a printout and the word of a friend who administered the tests. A proper scientific study would have involved more stringent methods.

By scientific enough, I meant good enough. I should have put "scientific" in quotes.
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Widsith

Wisconsin, USA

crazeeJZ wrote:
By scientific enough, I meant good enough. I should have put "scientific" in quotes.


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I just don't expect people to believe things someone posts on a message board right off the bat. I hope people believe me, but always expect them not to. I must be a cynic.
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