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The Potential for Huge Muscles
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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi all,

heavyhitter32,
here are some links below, for Ellingtons, big arms in six weeks,

It's a great read.
Ellington does the big arm course on nine men and one women, but in the book it only shows, six guys of all sizes,
the average gain on the right arm, of these six men, was 9/16 of an inch, thats just over a half inch.

least gain was on 5' 5" man 146 pounds 1/4 gain

best gain was on 5' 10" guy 182 3/4 pounds 7/8 gain

http://half.ebay.com/...&domain_id=1856

http://www.amazon.com/...3?condition=all


Thank you Wayne
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serf

New Zealand

There is one simple reason why it's obvious Mike was the champion and not Ray: Neither muscle length nor muscle size nor cuts; in fact Ray seems to have the upper hand in those areas, at least in those photos. It's all about leg length in relation to torso length.

Mike has a shorter torso in relation to his legs, which is more aesthetically pleasing to the eyes -- just like a long legged lady is more pleasing to the eyes for most people.
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jnboado

Dr. Darden
I just bought your book yesterday. This is a great book. Before this I had Mike Mentzer's Newest edition. I did not see the results I wanted off of that book so I gave up but still wanted to believe in those principles.

Right now I am just trying to find ways to keep your book and believe in the principles. Could you tell me what pages I should concentrate in starting an intermediate/advanced routine?

To me the information on the book is simple but not when you are reading it to just train.

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lejr

How can I be selected as a subject in a myostatin deletion experiment. I'll sign a waiver if required.
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Swedish Viking

California, USA

Still, something does not add up. I made a thread about this before but it never showed up for some reason. Anyway, Boyer Coe has biceps that literally reside in his delts, Coleman has a similar make-up. Still they both have rediculously large biceps. I don't know about the length of their horshoe to their elbow so I won't comment on that. It would seem to me that those with the shorter muscle bellies have more potential to build higher more peaked bis(possible stretching the tape further that those with long bellies) and those with long bellies have the potential to build thicker, more dense fully bis. Ok, discuss...
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Swedish Viking

California, USA

add Dennis James to that list.
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Acerimmer1

to what extent does the size of the forearm eat into the visible measurable biceps tendon?

Do we know that the tendon is of uniform length at each end ie do we know if a man with a 1/2" tendon at one end has a 1/2" tendon at the other.

What happened to sergio's triceps later in his career, his long heads on both sides look shorter and his left long head is freaky short, did he tear one or both?

Lee Preist has extremely short arms even relative to his height therefore he probably does not have extremley long biceps no matter what his tendon length. Right?




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a.adams

South Africa

I'm a.adams

I have seen similar development in some body-builders too. They all have long muscle bellies but there is a bit of a gap between forearm and bicept muscle eg Arnold. Is there other reasons for this development.
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a.adams

South Africa

a.adams

Genetics has prety much skipped in the arm department. My father has large hands almost twice and wrists at least 50% larger than mine, he is 61 years old and was larger. He describes his hands and wrists as small when he talks about his father saying his fathers hands wrists were larger than his. My fathers wrists are about 8.5" and were proberly larger when he was younger. If is fathers wrists were evens larger, which I believe they were because at 80 they were larger than my dads at 50, how large could his arms have grown then. my own wrists are only 6,75". Man life can be tough. but at least I'm much taller.
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Thorwalsh

I doubt your fathers father had larger hands and wrists than your father, he probably just remember them that way because he was younger and smaller. It's like people who say snow was above their heads when they were younger forget they were 3 feet tall too.

As for the routine described, I would think that he is hitting his arms too much with his back and pressing work combined with his arm routines. Maybe taking a break and scaling back on the back work and pressing will increase the intensity on your arms and eventually the arms will grow.
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a.adams

South Africa

I know now that ratio between FT and ST muscles affect your potential. What I want to know is would doing large amounts of cardio or long slow running have an effect on your ratio. I used to do alot of middle and long distance races 800m-1500 and 10km-15km with high levels of training 4-8km 3 times a week. I was never really briliant at either distances but did with my friends.

Is there anyone who can help me.
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Ryan Sergent

Indiana, USA

Aadams,
If you want to get bigger quit running. Especially quit running distances. Have you ever seen a muscular marathon runner? No, they all look like they did a stint at the Gulag.
I used to be an avid runner... a very skinny avid runner.
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a.adams

South Africa

Thanks for the advise but would all of my previous distance training have had a negative effect on my FT and ST muscle ratio. I read about how muscle fibres can be effected with certain types of training.
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Ryan Sergent

Indiana, USA

AAdams
I believe the ratio of FT and ST muscle remain the same regardless of how we train them. If this was not the case then every one who trained hard enough would be an Olympic athelete. Elite Atheletes are born not made.

We can all make improvements though and untill you attempt your genetic potential you will never know it. You are young so you will get bigger and stronger as you grow older provided you lift hard and rest long.

Ryan
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a.adams

South Africa

A. Adams

Thanks for the advise Ryan Seagant.
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Acerimmer1

Ryan Sergent Wrote

"If this was not the case then every one who trained hard enough would be an Olympic athelete."

How do you know they are not? Maybe hard enough is harder than you think.
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ryansergent

Kansas, USA

Acerimmer1,
The hardest I've trained was on the old Cybergenics Program; six sets all to posotive and negative failure, six days a wk. I think this is hard, don't you?

I now do one set to failure once or twice a wk. this is also hard but much saner. Come on dude... how much harder than failure can you train?
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David_Whitener

Hi
I'm 42, 6'3", 192, bodyfat about 8.5-9%. I've been in and out of the gym and currently on a good role of putting on some weight. I generally weigh about 175 with not working out and just eating 3 meals a day -- and look really bad and skinny. I've put on 15 pounds since May 1, added 2.5 inces to my chest, added 1.5 inches to my arms -- all since May 1. My wrists are 7.25.

My dad was a powerlifter back in the late 50s and early 60s -- actually held a US record in the deadlift of like 655 or something like that -- I'm excited about my recent gains, but also very curious about potential size, especially of biceps. My dad's arms were -- well, he had great baseball biceps - always. I'm eating about 3500 calories a day (6-7 small meals over 15 hours), and working out 6 times a week, using a 6-day split, working upper legs/lower back, chest/upper back, bis/tris, shoulders, calfs -- and days between each body part is determined by general length of time to recover, ie., heavy day of legs would need more time to recover than say arms. So I'm working out a lot -- comments, suggestions -- all are appreciated.
David
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jaseomac

Kentucky, USA

Dr. Ellington. I just read your article on the potential for huge muscles. I found it extremley useful and extremely interesting. What I found especially cool was about the genetic potential playing such a huge role. I mean I always knew that genetics played a role..but not THAT big of one..considering that only 145 men in the US really only have the potential to reach 18 to 20 inch arms. I have a question for you though. I've been training for 6 years now and I'm 5'9, 180 lbs. My wrist measures in at 6 inches. My bicep measured cold is 15 inches. I was just wondering if I've reached my genetic potential or if its even possible to reach 17, 18 inch biceps.
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Ellington Darden

jase,

I'd have to see some good photos of your arms to answer your question precisely. But from what you've described, I'd say you're probably pretty close to your maximum arm size.

Ellington
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jaseomac

Kentucky, USA

Dr. Ellington

Thanks for the reply. So you're saying I'll probably never have 17-18 inch biceps?
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Acerimmer1

Sounds to me like you should at least post some pictures of your arms before you give up on those 17-18 inch guns.
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the_iron_goose

I think the lifter is making a mistake worrying about these things.
Interesting analogy about basketball, While I know what Dr. Darden means about height, the shortest player in the NBA was Muggsy Bogues show here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/...i/Muggsy_Bogues


Five foot three.

I remember seeing a story about Muggsy many years ago. He grew up with a with a bunch of guys who all became pro. He had been playing basketball with them since he had been a kid. Everyday after school, they would play basketball - they grew, he didn't - but none of them worried one way or the other. The game never stopped for any of them as they all went on to be pro.

I know in my own case countless ways how I could have sold myself short if you get the pun if I had given such ideas any consideration. I remember reading the same passage above I hate to say - I think about twenty years ago now, published by Dr. Darden at the time. I have to admit I found the honesty all too real and all too discouraging. But one way or another I was going to lift weights. It was who I was. I couldn't change it. I still lift weights today. Sure I could change how I lifted - but I also remember all this milarky about bodybuilders having an inferiority complex and I lived through experiencing the stigma - and yet realizing that's who I was I knew that inferiorty complex or not I was going to lift - for me inferiority complex had zero to do with it. For me lifting WAS basketball. I had no inferiority complex, the author - and I am not referring to Dr. Darden - had a perception problem. Good for him I thought at least he has something I didn't have and so there was one less thing for him to write about me. Good.

I always witnessed folks with the biceps gap, but since I was very young it always made sense to me to do a concentration curl exercise or straight curl bar exercise at no angle and a preacher curl at an angle. I would do the preacher curl very strict. I would extend very far down. It is an unnatural position. I was not born without the biceps gap, but preacher curls for years and years and years sure did eliminate it. The "long muscle belly" look was mine. Sure looks like my biceps go allllll the way to the joint. I saw people correct their triceps in the same way.

Same thing for shoulders. I was born with weak shoulders. I remember when I first began lifting twenty years ago, I was started doing behind the neck presses with only thirty pounds - 2 seconds up, four seconds down - that's weak. And I trained for many years - and one time at a local gym I met this guy from Boston University who was on the their football team. And we talked. He was about six foot one and had kind of King Kong Bundy Build - weighted less than Bundy though - about 350lb. A heck of a lot bigger than I. Well, I watched him doing his behind neck presses starting with 205lbs down to the base of the neck and I looked on in awe as I believed I was witnessing something I would surely never do. I couldn't lift 200lbs off the rack from a bench press position at the time. No foolin'. It was all too real, just as the information of this article.

However, there were many sources who much to my disbelief suggested that such feats were possible. One very old book which I have lost now was written by a guy who was a World War One veteran. He was "blown up" as he said it in his own words. Lost an entire lung. The doctors gave him six months to live and suggested that he never walk when he could sit, never sit when he could lie down so as not to bring things to a head. And time went by and he continued to exist and got weaker and weaker and weaker. Finally, he had had enough. In the words we use today - "Screw it", He said. He began to lift first with only the empty bar and he huffed an puffed with it. However as author of the book he explained that he was in fact at the time of the writing - about ten years beyond his six months left to live - able to do a shoulder press with 200 lbs. What a lucky guy I thought, but I accepted that I unfortunately just did not have his "genes".

I continued to lift. My friends I want you to know that today, 205lbs in the behind neck press to the base of the neck is something I can do for eight reps with ease. It is not a limit lift at all. So you do what you want, and what you believe will mean very little, I can assure you of that - what YOU DO will greatly influence what you achieve. Faith is unnecessary. Action is required.

Be warned, I never said it will be easy or that you will not have to push the limits of your understanding of why you don't grow when you don't and that you will not have to push against weigths which seem higly implausible in light of your "faith". Religion can be a terrible thing.

For me lifting weights is my basketball, and I am going to play !

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johnmack

Ontario, CAN

Hi Dr Darden.

I'm new to your site but been taining hit style principals since I was 19 (im 25 now). I have a 7 in wrist and my arm are left 18 2/8 and right is 17 6/8. From my profile pic what do youthink my potential is?
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