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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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eintology

California, USA

Does it seem kind of strange to any of you, that with all the media attention steroids have been receiving?in the wake of the recent Jose Canseco book, and the coinciding 60 Minutes interview, that baseball, of all sports, would be the epicenter of the steroid controversy? In the same way it was for ephedra when Steve Bechler the former pitching prospect of the Baltimore Orioles died? I know baseball is considered the great American pastime, but will badminton be the next sport to go on the chopping block? Maybe bodybuilding needs to get some new public relations people.

Recently there was a topic on this site regarding a certain bodybuilder, and how he trains, and almost like a reflex reaction, the subject shifted to steroids?and what they have, or have not done for his physique. Yet this aforementioned individual has denied ever using them. That means he's not a steroid user. Right? Right. Current affairs

When a reporter for the San Francisco Chronicle broached the subject of steroids with Barry Bonds, he denied ever having used them, and then he proceeded to throw chairs all around the Giants clubhouse. I'm not saying that's an admission of guilt, and I would never even imply that taking steroids is something someone should feel guilty about, but couldn't he have handled the question with a little decency and class? Is that really an appropriate response? Sammy Sosa says no, never touched the stuff. Have any of you ever seen a picture of Sammy Sosa early in his career when he was playing with the Chicago White Sox? OK. He claims he had a tooth problem when he first came into professional baseball. A tooth infection. For seven years? I'm from Chicago. They have dentists in Chicago. Mark McGwire says no. But he will admit to androstene. That's awfully bold since androstene was sold over the counter at the time. David Boston, the wide receiver of the Miami Dolphins, claimed when he was playing for the Arizona Cardinals, that his recently acquired extreme muscular size and leanness, which from all reports has become an inside joke in the NFL, was the result of his revamped exercise program, and eating berries late at night? Look at a picture of David Boston when he played for Ohio State. Everyone lifts weights when they play Ohio State Buckeye football. Berries late at night. Now there is some solid advice for anyone who would ever want to get lean and muscular. I don't know if they only do it late at night, but Bears, and I don't mean the Chicago Bears, eat berries, so maybe there is something to it.

It kind of reminds me of Michael Jackson saying he has had two? No, make that three plastic surgery procedures for a deviated septum, and everything else is the product of normal aging. Where is the credibility? Even if he would have said seven or eight procedures, there isn't a doctor in this country who would believe that for one-second. And if you do know a doctor who would believe that, you'd better turn and run as fast as you can, in the opposite direction.

I have to say, at least Mike Mentzer had the guts to talk about the subject, viewed from his own experience. And in doing so, he provided a legitimate public service, or at the very least a built in caveat. He did put himself on the line by telling some of you that he and his brother had used them.
I remember several years ago reading something Mike Mentzer had written. I think it was something from his training diary. This was at a time when no one, and I mean no one, admitted to steroid usage. So as I was reading the article, at first I thought he was joking, as he had steroids listed as part of his daily meal planning. Then I realized he wasn't joking at all. He was just reporting what he consumed for the day. Maybe he was saying all that for shtick value, but I kind of doubt it.

I think certain bodybuilders, and athletes have almost a social obligation at this point to shed some light on the subject of steroids ... in a legitimate and credible way. If for no other reason because steroids have now become so prevalent in our culture, and we are now at the bend in the road, where there is no turning back. I say enough of the dark smoke filled room type discussion. Will the current Governor of California please rise?

Erik
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hit4all

Sweden

Erik

I seriously thinks chess players will be the next issue of drug abusse. I mean comme on, sitting there for hours and moving farmers and towers one or two inches ones and in a while, all naturals?! LOL


Are you reffering to Heavy Duty Journal? I haven't read it yet, but I that's the book/diary Mike Mentzer wrote several years ago. If you have read it, what or which years are the diary covering?

I think Mike mentioned steriods for one reason: honesty to the people! He wasn't and have never tried to hide anything from anyone, at least this is my opinion from reading his books and listened to his seminars.

This is why I think Mentzers books are such a good reading since he doesn't try to cover up something, he gives the reader honestly facts about his stand points about strengt training and bodybuilding, wether people thought he was right or wrong!!!

Be well, train hard & think smart!
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noone

New York, USA

Mentzer openly admitted he was on steroids. Heavy Duty journal, page 25, last sentance on the page "Yes, I was on steroids at the time."

My personal feeling is the muscle gained honestly is far more important than the muscle gained cheating.

Bret
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sniperfrog

Steroids are becoming so common nowadays that its no longer just bodybuilders and athletes using them. Now its accountants and salesmen and other average joes that want to look like someone from a comic book. I work with a bunch of guys who are not competetive bodybuilders or athletes but just want to look good for that vacation to mexico.So they use steroids.
I guess the pros at least have a somewhat more legitement reason.
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NeuroMass

Guys,

I found it very HYPOCRITICAL for a Bodybuilder who oviously uses steroids to DENY upfront that he uses DRUGS. I mean if they really think that STEROIDS are Okay and SAFE as some so-called GURU claim it to be then they should be PROUD of it! Why are these guys DENYING? Are they ASHAMED of what they are doing? Unfortunately it is so ovious that even they are IN DENIAL and in the back of their minds they know the CONSEQUENCES of their actions.

PEACE.
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BRUCELEEWANNABE

Florida, USA

I have a M&F mag from 81' with Mike talking about which ones he took & talking about his current workout program. He seemed to always be open about it. Mike seemed like a good guy. By the way! He should have won in 80' or was the 81' Mr. O? He was sharp as glass!
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eintology

California, USA

That's funny Sniper,

The accountant reference was reaching back for the fast ball. I like it! You're so right. And obviously you are seeing this first hand. It's people who just a few years ago would have scoffed at the idea, and now they want in.

I was talking to a trainer at the Powerhouse Gym a few years ago, and he told me he started taking them during his junior year in high school. You fathers out there are good with that? This trainer guy was not raised in a barn. He was a good kid. Just wanted to compete.

Excellent point Neuro. I think it's one of those things where they have been doing it so long, they don't want to deal, so they block it. But again, as Sniper pointed out, it's going mainstream. It's not just bodybuilders anymore. Those days are gone. There was a Dutch International soccer player who tested positive for steroids a little over a year ago, and I thought to myself ... you've got to be kidding? I mean this guy was small and thin! That's why I think they need to open up the dialogue about it in a more productive way. So people don't need to be making fools of themselves, by feeling the need to out and out lie about it. It damages their line of credibility tremendously. I don't believe anything some of those elite athletes are saying about training, because I can't help thinking are lying out their respective yangs about half the stuff they are saying. And at least part of that stems from this one issue.

I felt sorry for Jason Giambi a couple weeks ago?forced to sit there in front of the entire news media, while they scrutinized his every move. Meanwhile the entire Yankee organization, flanking him on both sides said - - nothing. All Giambi could do is weep and vaguely apologize. Someone was telling him not to talk. I'm sorry, that just isn't right.

I know a lot of the people on this board have serious human performance backgrounds, and I would be more inclined to believe half the people on this board about training, then I would many of the biggest sport athletes, or bodybuilders. If someone were to tell me they take steroids I would say fine, then I would probably ask them what they think of brewers yeast. (I couldn't resist that!) But you get my point. A line of credibility has been established.

Thanks all of you,

Erik
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HeavyHitter32

Regarding baseball -- I'm a big baseball fan and historian of the game -- and asterisks need to be placed by the names of Bonds and company of their so-called home run records.

As far as I'm concerned, Roger Maris still holds the record for the most home runs hit in a single season.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Sorry Dude,
I think Roger admitted that he was "bitin' the berries" when he broke the record.
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HeavyHitter32

Source?
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rtestes

Mississippi, USA

simon-hecubus wrote:
Sorry Dude,
I think Roger admitted that he was "bitin' the berries" when he broke the record.


Source on that?
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NeuroMass

BRUCELEEWANNABE wrote:
I have a M&F mag from 81' with Mike talking about which ones he took & talking about his current workout program. He seemed to always be open about it. Mike seemed like a good guy. By the way! He should have won in 80' or was the 81' Mr. O? He was sharp as glass!


BRUCELEEWANNABE,

I agree with you that Mike was very regarding his STEROID use during his competitive days. Well I guess if you want to compete at the HIGHEST LEVEL of competitive bodybuilding you need to take it just to EQUALIZE the competition. It's just a NECESSARY EVIL. Until the powers that be and the public (fans) realizes the magnitude of this problem and would demand a change this trend would continue to worsen as time and technology improves. Bottom line is PRO-BODYBUILDING is BIG BUSINESS and that the LAW of supply and demand still applies here.

PEACE.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

I say, I say... that was a joke, son!

(see aforementioned reference to NFL WR David Boston and the "berry" story).
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Seriously though, I can see how berries could be an important PART of Boston's regimen. Berries, especially the dark ones like blueberries, raspberries, and blackberries, are very high in anti-oxidants. In addition, they are supposed to have enzymes which assist in detoxifying the body (add black cherries to this list).

This is something you might want to look into if you were, let's say, taking anabolic steroids.

Scott
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eintology

California, USA

Simon,

That's funny. I was going to say, Roger Maris? Is nothing sacred? And if Roger Maris was hitting the sauce, and by that I don't mean tomato, forget anything you've heard ... they don't work at all! Jim Carey would have buried Roger Maris in a pose down. Sitting in a chair! Berries. Simon, would you mind terribly if I wrote a little about them under the brewer's yeast heading? I can't guarantee B.L.W. would not have had some experiences with them. David Boston tested positive for steroids in mid December, putting an end, at least for the time being, to the rumors.

Heavy Hitter,

You are a baseball fan, and you obviously know your stuff. See anything peculiar in Brady Anderson's stats. Or was he just on fire that one year?

B.L.W.,

That was were I saw the thing on Mike Mentzer as well. I read about his steroid use in a magazine. I remembered him as someone who had passed through the doors at Nautilus, but I don't think he had written a book yet, at that time. I couldn't remember the exact publication, but it was from right around the era you are citing. So I'm pretty close to positive we are talking about the same article.

Erik
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donald

It should not be hard to figure out for anybody why people don't want to admit to steroid use. For one, they are on the same DEA schedule as cocaine and heroin. Stupid, but true. All are felonies!
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eintology

California, USA

Donald,

I am completely and utterly aware of the legal implications of finding someone in (possession) of these substances. As anyone with even a pedestrian interest in the subject is. Pardon me for saying so, but I don't think the federal government is even remotely interested in prosecuting any of these people. First of all, because if the federal government were to actually prosecute some of the names previously mentioned on steroid (possession), forgive me for saying so, but it would incite a race riot the likes of which this country has never seen before. And secondly, they are not interested in prosecuting any of these people on steroid (possession) charges, because they know the economic ramifications involved, and they don't want to touch that with a ten foot officially sanctioned FDA magic daily exercise pool sweeping pole. They are currently waging public relations battles on several fronts as well.

I alluded to Mentzer putting himself on the line, for the very reasons you mentioned Donald. It's my understanding from the things I've been reading, he was talking fairly openly about it.

If any of you saw the news briefing involving Jason Giambi and the entire New York Yankee organization, you saw Giambi hung out to dry for these very legal reasons which were blatantly obvious. I think the current situation is pathetic.

Erik
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Erik,

You were the one to bring up berries in the first place, so go ahead and run with it. Hopefully you can get BLW to spout-off about them, which promises to be amusing if nothing else.

Scott
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sniperfrog

Has anyone seen the interview with cyclist Greg LeMond? He talks about drug use with cyclists in the tour de France. I cant remember but I think he pretty much admitted he used them as well to help him win the tour. He stated that the training for cycling hasnt changed but all of a sudden the cyclists were getting faster and faster. There was no explanation for it at the time since they all still trained the same way from the previous years.Those guys are more endurance athletes so I dont know if it was steroids or some other drug that LeMond was talking about. Lance Armstrong is obviously an amazing athlete, but could he too be using something? Alot of others seem to think so, including LeMond.
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NeuroMass

Guys,

I cannot understand how these Pro Bodybuilders can get away with using those ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES year in and year out! What is more SHOCKING to me is that some of these Pros are POLICE officers like Ronnie Coleman which until a few years ago was still active in the DALLAS police! I mean what's going on here, are his fellow officers just turning a BLIND EYE on him or are they just plain STUPID! How can guys like RONNIE who's basically the POSTER BOY of STEROIDS could get away with it?

PEACE.
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eintology

California, USA

sniperfrog wrote:
Has anyone seen the interview with cyclist Greg LeMond? He talks about drug use with cyclists in the tour de France. I cant remember but I think he pretty much admitted he used them as well to help him win the tour. He stated that the training for cycling hasnt changed but all of a sudden the cyclists were getting faster and faster. There was no explanation for it at the time since they all still trained the same way from the previous years.Those guys are more endurance athletes so I dont know if it was steroids or some other drug that LeMond was talking about. Lance Armstrong is obviously an amazing athlete, but could he too be using something? Alot of others seem to think so, including LeMond.


Sniperfrog,

I did hear Greg LeMond say awhile back that he does feel steroids are in play now at the tour de France. But I too remember he used the term drugs a lot in that interview, without being specific. I didn't think he said that he had ever taken them? He was pretty worked up about it, and it kind of stilted his message. That's the way a lot of Europeans viewed it anyway.

With the importance this race has to the French people? As you know, many French cycling enthusiasts did not want to see Lance Armstrong do well. Lemond is in the camp with the French cycling fanatics who view Armstrong's success unfavorably. Even with that being said, LeMonds statements got very mixed reviews in Europe. At least in London. That's where I was when that LeMond interview took place. The British media viewed LeMonds words from a variety of angles.

I always wondered what all those other cyclists were doing when Armstrong was practically on his death bed? They have every training advantage known to man kind as well. What were they doing during that time period where Armstrong was so ill? Any way you spin it, that's an incredible story.

Erik




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