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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

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Cardio, Sports Specific Practice, and HIT
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csmith72

I know there are athletes, especially football players, who practice HIT. How do they incorporate their practices, conditioning, and HIT routines without overtraining? Dr. Darden says to limit this type of activity, but I Like Cardio, and some people have to do conditioning for their sport. I know HIT is good for general Cardio conditioning, but what if I want to be better cardiovascularly conditioned then just general? Thanks

Chris

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NATUREBOY

I would reduce HIT to 1x/week and focus all my other energy on practicing football, including all the required running and conditioning drills. Ideally, something like this:

M HIT
T (Off)
W Football
R Football
F Football
S Football
U (Off)
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HamsFitness

I think the overtraining aspect will only really affect your progress in connection with your resistance workouts.

If you do a full body workout in rush style all the way through then that will see you good for any CV gains you could want. If on the other hand you like running/cycling/rowing etc then do them but i would recommend doing them fartlek style. Train intensely and rest well.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

csmith72 wrote:
I know there are athletes, especially football players, who practice HIT. How do they incorporate their practices, conditioning, and HIT routines without overtraining? Dr. Darden says to limit this type of activity, but I Like Cardio, and some people have to do conditioning for their sport. I know HIT is good for general Cardio conditioning, but what if I want to be better cardiovascularly conditioned then just general? Thanks

Chris



It is easiest and best to simply cycle goals. Look to only maintain muscle during a period of serious competition or when trying to make significant gains in C.V. ability. Then go through a muscle growth phase where you maintain the skills and C.V. but all extra effort goes to building muscle.

You can muck with all the variables to make it all it all happen and run concurrently but why? This will just slow down gains of all type (C.V., skill, muscle growth etc.) as you can only recover so fast even when building conditioning and tolerance. Cycling goals seems to be more effective in the long run, running these goals in seasons so to speak. I would keep it to at least 6 weeks in length per cycle.

Fact is, it is tough to properly measure gains of any type. Cross influences can skew the numbers and subjective perception of the results. Furthermore, to be get accurate measurements takes time, practice and the proper tools. By trying for too many goals all at the same time, you slow down each particular "type" of progress thus making it harder to measure/notice.

This is my perspective base on experience but yours could be different based on different issues.

Regards,
Andrew

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tylerg

csmith72 wrote:
I know there are athletes, especially football players, who practice HIT. How do they incorporate their practices, conditioning, and HIT routines without overtraining? Dr. Darden says to limit this type of activity, but I Like Cardio, and some people have to do conditioning for their sport. I know HIT is good for general Cardio conditioning, but what if I want to be better cardiovascularly conditioned then just general? Thanks

Chris



What exactly is it you are wanting to accomplish? Are you a football player, or were you just using football as an example?

I recommend one HIT workout per week in season, on a Monday. Mondays are generally light practice days at best and a HIT workout fits in nicely.

I would reduce the exercises to only the basic muscle groups: squats/leg press/step ups with a calf extension at the end for legs; reverse grip pulldown/seated row for lats; bench press shoulders, triceps and chest; chins and dips. I would also incorporate some resisted ab work and back extensions at Not To Failure, indeed, with quite light resistance: 40% 1RM.

For conditioning, I am a big fan of High Intensity Interval Training. It boosts cardio, aerobic capacity and anaerobic capacity, can be adapted to sport specific type of drills, and doesn't take long to complete.

Tyler
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csmith72

I was just using football as an example. Another question I have is would it be worse to do cardio 3 days a week and HIT 3 days a week with full body workouts than it would be doing cardio 3 days a week with a split HVT routine.
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NATUREBOY

csmith72 wrote:
I was just using football as an example. Another question I have is would it be worse to do cardio 3 days a week and HIT 3 days a week with full body workouts than it would be doing cardio 3 days a week with a split HVT routine.


I'd stick with a full-body HIT routine, performed 1x per week; plus whatever cardio/drills you run at practice. I would not add anything extra.

What sport is it?
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Sesame

csmith72 wrote:
I was just using football as an example. Another question I have is would it be worse to do cardio 3 days a week and HIT 3 days a week with full body workouts than it would be doing cardio 3 days a week with a split HVT routine.


You can do cardio SIX days a week if you wish and it will not interfere with your HIT when you become highly conditioned.

Pro's train cardio almost every day because they realize the value in it.

I do lots of cardio and I can litterally run circles around those who do not regardless of what they may SAY.
Think about it! To achieve great aerobic fitness you must DO aerobic training. By the same token extra ordinary strength requires strength training. Doesn't this make sense?
:)

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NATUREBOY

Sesame wrote:
You can do cardio SIX days a week if you wish and it will not interfere with your HIT when you become highly conditioned.

Pro's train cardio almost every day because they realize the value in it.

I do lots of cardio and I can litterally run circles around those who do not regardless of what they may SAY.
Think about it! To achieve great aerobic fitness you must DO aerobic training. By the same token extra ordinary strength requires strength training. Doesn't this make sense?
:)



Sesame, I'm beginning to agree with you that HIT by itself is not enough and would be interested in hearing how you integrate cardio with HIT.
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davise

I train twice a week with weights with 15-20 minutes of GXP or run 2-3 miles twice a week immediately after training. I also do 2-3 martial arts type workouts for an hour a week. I've found a great balance for me and I dont feel burned out at all. I train a rep or two shy of failure, but always try to increase weight or reps in good form which I seem to be able to do on at least one exercise in my workout every workout.
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Sesame

NATUREBOY wrote:
Sesame wrote:
You can do cardio SIX days a week if you wish and it will not interfere with your HIT when you become highly conditioned.

Pro's train cardio almost every day because they realize the value in it.

I do lots of cardio and I can litterally run circles around those who do not regardless of what they may SAY.
Think about it! To achieve great aerobic fitness you must DO aerobic training. By the same token extra ordinary strength requires strength training. Doesn't this make sense?
:)



Sesame, I'm beginning to agree with you that HIT by itself is not enough and would be interested in hearing how you integrate cardio with HIT.



I do a HIT routine 4 X/ week. I punch/kick on a heavy bag for about 45 mins every day in early morn and run 2-5 miles track (or treadmill) afternoon or early evening after the HIT WO.
Frequently I'll substitute sprinting tabata style for the afternoon run.
:)
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csmith72

Thanks for all the insight...

I do Krav Maga which is a contact self defense 3 days a week. I would like to run 2 days a week and do HIT to gain muscle. I am 6'3'' 192 and 11% BF. I am 20 Years old.

Sesame, what does your weekly routine look like with HIT and Cardio and what do your workouts consist of?

Thanks
Chris
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tylerg

csmith72 wrote:
Thanks for all the insight...

I do Krav Maga which is a contact self defense 3 days a week. I would like to run 2 days a week and do HIT to gain muscle. I am 6'3'' 192 and 11% BF. I am 20 Years old.

Sesame, what does your weekly routine look like with HIT and Cardio and what do your workouts consist of?

Thanks
Chris


Krav Maga is a great self defense method. By your #'s, I could see doing HIT 2-3 per week and sport specific "cardio" training on the same days. Shouldn't be a problem.

For competition, HIT is not enough to develop the requisite capacities, be they VO2,ATP, aerobic or anaerobic, just to name the basics and to keep things simple.

I have said it before, the weight room is SUPPLEMENTAL to your preferred sport. It will ASSIST you in performing better as you will be stronger and should have better muscular endurance. HIT will also help, to a certain degree, with C.V. endurance if performed correctly.

Be sure you don't do cardio for cardio's sake. Be as specific as you can to your sport without being silly about it. High Intensity Interval Training is fast becoming my method of choice for conditioning. Modify it to accommodate your sport and you will see great results.

If you want more specifics, don't hesitate to ask.

Tyler
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Richard Glover

csmith72 wrote:
I know there are athletes, especially football players, who practice HIT. How do they incorporate their practices, conditioning, and HIT routines without overtraining? Dr. Darden says to limit this type of activity, but I Like Cardio, and some people have to do conditioning for their sport. I know HIT is good for general Cardio conditioning, but what if I want to be better cardiovascularly conditioned then just general? Thanks

Chris

Hi Chris,

Athletes can incoroporate HIT successfully if they structure their training well i.e. ensuring sufficient rest between exercise and sport drills. What training they do is another topic for discussion! I will just say that boxing makes you a better boxer, not jogging. Running 800m doesnt make you a better 100m runner (provided you practice running 100m)!

Liking cardio is fine, but just because you like something doesnt necessarily mean it's good for you. However, from an exercise perspective - properly performed HIT exercise is sufficient for cardiovascular adaptation (see Doug McGuff article - 'cv adaptations'). It is more than general conditioning - it is all your body needs! Just ask Dr Darden, A Jones, Drew, Landau, Fred Hahn etc. These guys have decades of years of experience training people and come to the same conclusion.

Regards,

Rich
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csmith72

Sesame,

What does your 4 days of HIT look like? Are they full body workouts and what exercieses do you do and on what days.

Thanks,
Chris
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

csmith72 wrote:
I know there are athletes, especially football players, who practice HIT. How do they incorporate their practices, conditioning, and HIT routines without overtraining? Dr. Darden says to limit this type of activity, but I Like Cardio, and some people have to do conditioning for their sport. I know HIT is good for general Cardio conditioning, but what if I want to be better cardiovascularly conditioned then just general? Thanks

Chris



General is not a matter of degree, it is a matter of specificity. HIT can produce a greater degree of cardiovascular conditioning than any other activity, more safely, and more efficiently.

However, it seems that metabolic adaptations can be very specific to the intensity and duration of the activity performed, and for best performance in a particular activity, you also have to practice performing that activity for the duration and at the intensity you plan to perform at in competition.
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csmith72

Drew,

Thanks for the advice. Is it more important to finish the HIT workout in a timely fashion( as fast as possible)even if it interferes with the weight and strength I have during the active set?

Thanks
Chris
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davise

Drew Baye wrote:
General is not a matter of degree, it is a matter of specificity. HIT can produce a greater degree of cardiovascular conditioning than any other activity, more safely, and more efficiently.



Providing you are in a training atmoshphere where all the machines are available, pre-set, and you can rush from exercise to exercise...most of us dont have this luxury and have to do additional cardio for this very reason. In a perfect world HIT is all you need for conditioning...most of us dont have these ideal conditions.
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Richard Glover


That is the ideal, but here a few ideas: 1) Try and schedule your workouts when the gym environment is less busy 2) I think most gyms would have several stations of each exercise. If your next exercise is busy - come back to it! 3) If you train with a partner, could they not set the next exercise up? 4) Does not setting up the exercises beforehand mean that you can't move quickly from exercise to exercise? I don't think so. Moving swiftly between exercises can be done, even without pre-setting the machines and with other persons present.

Rich
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