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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Did HIT Build Casey
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markandspike

In TNHIT Casey Viator weighted
175Ibs in 1969
218Ibs in 1971
200Ibs in 1973
205Ibs in 1979

Could anyone tell me what casey's weight was in 1970 which is the year i think Arthur Jones started training him. Also does anyone know how Casey worked out before Arthur's mentoring.
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markandspike

Please could anyone help me.
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

Thank Drew Baye: http://www.baye.com/...interview1.html

Viator was at 198 pounds when he started training with Jones in 1970.
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markandspike

Does anyone know how casey trained pre jones. As a muscle gain of 23Ibs from 1969 to 1970 is very good without jones pushing him. And one year of jones training gained him another 20Ibs. Something sounds wrong here if steroids have not been used.

Thanks All
Mark
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JOE W

markandspike wrote:
Does anyone know how casey trained pre jones. As a muscle gain of 23Ibs from 1969 to 1970 is very good without jones pushing him. And one year of jones training gained him another 20Ibs. Something sounds wrong here if steroids have not been used.

Thanks All
Mark


Hello Mark,

I got an answer from an old bodybuilder at my gym who competed during that time.Casey's routine published in Strength and Health had him doing three sets of three exercises per bodypart,three times a week.He was using high reps(12-15)so it may have been his pre-contest routine.
He said Casey was the most muscular man at the 1970 Mr America contest.The AAU judges made you pay your dues so they gave the title to some older guy but everyone knew Casey was the best.And yes,Casey did do steroids and he smoked too .I hate steroids but more people die from smoking.
I believe you can get a good build without steroids but you can get better with them.I don't want the health risks.
Joe
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markandspike

Ellington Darden built a very good body before he tried HIT as well. Dr Darden how much more mass did you put on after you started HIT.

Mark
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Ellington Darden

Mark,

When I started entering bodybuilding contests in the mid-1960s, the style of winning physiques was different than it is today. Everyone wanted to "get big." and big meant to weigh 200 pounds or more. Having a lot of definition, or cuts, was not popular.

But things started to change in the early 1970s. The learner more muscular men started winning more contests.

When I first heard about Arthur Jones and HIT, in 1970, I weighed 203 pounds. I was big but not very defined. Even so, I had won a couple of state and regional contests.

After applying many of Jones's concepts for two years, and cutting back on my dietary calories, I weighed 193 pounds. I was more defined and polished . . . and in my opinion, in the best shape of my life. And I was training approximately one-third as much weekly as I had previously.

So, it's difficult to say how much, or how little, muscle mass HIT added to my body. It certainly streamlined my exercising.

Ellington
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markandspike

Thanks for the response Dr Darden.Really enjoyed your book and wasn't trying to discredit HIT. I myself train HIT but seem abit let down by it. At the minute i'm thinking about trying one workout Neg only then two NTF sessions and see what results i get.
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markandspike

Thinking about this HIT sounds like it is just for maintaining mass,rebuilding mass and building alot of strength. Maybe it's just my lack of recent muscle gains which is souring my view.

Mark
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markandspike

Just started to read an older book Bigger muscles in 42 days. Keith Whitley is another steroid user who in my view is not an suitable example to spread the word of HIT considing Dr. Darden's stance on anti-steroid views.
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waynegr

Switzerland

HI,

Dr. Darden added to Keith Whitley,s body, 29.1 pound of muscle, in 42 days, he was a top bodybuilder and at the start of the program, and was in great shape at 246 pounds, mind you the before and after photos on pages 8 and 9 are not very good.

As stated, he was very dehydrated and overtrained.

Where did you hear Keith was a steroid user?

Mark,
Why not tell us what training you did before HIT, and gains if any, your age height bodyweight, and how long you have been doing HIT and the full routine.

As I have now noticed on all forums that the majority of people whatever style of training they do, strength seems to come first, but its not so much full strength there is more to it than that, it?s the learning of the muscles to lift the weights, that?s put in layman?s terms, no time now, will get back later.

Thank you Wayne

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markandspike

waynegr wrote:
HI,

Dr. Darden added to Keith Whitley,s body, 29.1 pound of muscle, in 42 days, he was a top bodybuilder and at the start of the program, and was in great shape at 246 pounds, mind you the before and after photos on pages 8 and 9 are not very good.

As stated, he was very dehydrated and overtrained.

Where did you hear Keith was a steroid user?

Mark,
Why not tell us what training you did before HIT, and gains if any, your age height bodyweight, and how long you have been doing HIT and the full routine.

As I have now noticed on all forums that the majority of people whatever style of training they do, strength seems to come first, but its not so much full strength there is more to it than that, it?s the learning of the muscles to lift the weights, that?s put in layman?s terms, no time now, will get back later.

Thank you Wayne


Hi Wayne. Thanks for the reply
I have only just got the book so not read it yet just ficked through the pages at present.Will read it tomorrow fully.
I think keith is a steroid user by the look of him and the body weight of 280Ibs at 3-4% bodyfat after the Dr. Darden training sessions.

About me
I'm 29 years old
5'8" tall
205Ibs
at 17% bodyfat
43" chest normal
45" chest expanded
33" waist
15 1/2" arms
26 1/2" legs
18" calves

I have been doing HIT for about one year now i have had big strenght gains but no real gain in size. But my TUL was only about 20-40 seconds. I have been training with a TUL of about 60-80 seconds for the past two months but still no size gains. Before HIT i was training 4 days a week 8-10 sets per bodypart.

Mark




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cmg

I purchased Casey's book a few years ago. He is a BIG volume guy doing anywhere from 16-20 sets per bodypart. When he was training for the Mr. O in 82 he was doing upward to 40-50 sets per bodypart.

I know from reading all accounts Casey built muscle doing HIT however he went back to volume.

Regards,

Ron
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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi there,

Hi Mark,

How many calories do you eat a day, and how many did you eat a year ago, and please a bit more on your training, what was your HIT training like a year ago, how many sets and how many days did you train, and what?s it like now.

We all will put in some information for you.

Thank you Wayne
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noone

New York, USA

cmg wrote:
I purchased Casey's book a few years ago. He is a BIG volume guy doing anywhere from 16-20 sets per bodypart. When he was training for the Mr. O in 82 he was doing upward to 40-50 sets per bodypart.

I know from reading all accounts Casey built muscle doing HIT however he went back to volume.

Regards,

Ron


I read this also. I have thought about this for a few years. My conclusion is that AJ could have pushed him so hard he lost interest.

Bret

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markandspike

Before HIT i trained 4days a week
1.chest,triceps
2.Legs,shoulders
3.Back, biceps
4.repeat session 1
8-10 sets per bodypart
I consumed about 2,500 cals a day.

Then started HIT about a year ago
One set each with a 2/2 cadence.
1. squats 20 reps
2. calf raise 10-15 reps
3. seated dumbell press 10 reps
4. pulldowns 6-9 reps
5. bench press 8-10 reps
6. medium grip pulldowns 10 reps
7. dips weighted 4-8 reps
8. barbell curl 8 reps
9. tricep ext 8 reps
10. close grip pulldowns 8 reps
11. dips (no weight)8 reps
12.lateral side raises 10 reps
13. sidebends weighted
14. crunches
Did this for 9 months

Then the last 2 1/2 months my routine has been.
Workout A
1. Leg Extensions 8-12 rep
2. Leg Curls 8-11 reps
3. Calf Raise 8-11 reps
4. Pulldowns 8-11 reps
5. Barbell Curl 7-9 reps
6. Close-Grip PDs 8-11 reps
7. Wrist Curls 7-9 reps
8. Reverse Wrist Curls 7-9 reps
9. Crunches 8-11 reps


Workout B
1. Squats 8-11 reps
2. Stiff-legged Deadlifts 8-11 reps
3. Seated DB Press 7-9 reps
4. Pullovers 8-11 reps
5. Bench Press 8-10 reps
6. Dips Weighted 7-9 reps
7. Tricep Ext 7-9 reps
8. Lateral Raises 7-10 reps
9. Sidebends Weighted 8-11 reps
One set each with a 2/4 cadence.
Still consuming about 2,500 cals a day.

Thanks for your time wayne hope you can help me.

Mark

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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi there all,

Hi Mark, hope Spike is ok,

See from your measurements you have quite a good body, you just need to get the bodyfat down, and hopefully at the same time KEEP all the mass, OR why not up the calories VERY slowly, I think THAT is why your not gaining the muscle, you just NEED extra calories, do you eat and drink pretty much 250 calories per day, if so why not add 50 calories per day of protein, every day for two to three weeks and see how that goes, keep a close check on your bodyfat, you might but lucky, as some people add the calories very slowly and add muscle and lose bodyfat.

But if your bodyfat goes up a bit do not worry at all, but if it goes to 21% for two weeks cut back a bit.

Funny thing you say you have gained a lot of strength without that much muscle, I see this is the same I keep hearing whatever program people do, let it be HIT. HVT or whatever, I will start a poll on this and other forums tonight.

Strength being the easiest to measure, and strength will come far faster in my opinion whatever style you chose, or whatever program you do, HIT. HVT or whatever, I also think your strength will come first if you chose Bodybuilding, Powerlifting of Strongman,

I am sure some of the other crowd here will expand on why most people get far better strength gains than muscle when they start a weight related program.
But there will be increases in strength by skill in lifting the weights at first, Fact is we are all different, all depends on your genetics, neurological efficiency, Muscle belly length, Insulin output, insulin sensitivity, Thyroid output, Thyroid sensitivity, Testosterone production, Testosterone/hormone sensitivity, Testosterone to estrogen conversion, Testosterone to DHT conversion, SHGB sensitivity Estrogen sensitivity, Growth Hormone output, Growth Hormone sensitivity, IGF output IGF sensitivity, Digestive capability, Basic protein synthesis ability, Muscle fiber composition, fast twitch fibers and slow twitch fibers.

It is well known that the relationship between strength and size is not linear, so that if you double your muscle mass, you will not double your strength, as can be seen clearly by comparing the performances of and powerlifters in different body mass divisions

Mark,
I am still unsure of your training, when you started HIT about a year ago was you doing the 14 exercises three times per week ??? In addition, with your now A. and B. workout how many days rest are in-between training days, need to know this first please,

Your exercise selection looks great.

I would go to the harder and more intense 1/2 cadence for all exercises, and go for a 15 (45sec) to 20 (60 sec) rep count,

One thing I think you may not be doing enough of is specialising, if you have not specialised that will be your problem, look at Ellington?s books they are all about specialising. Why not try Bioforces Direct Compensation Training, we have been talking about, it?s very hard, to say the least, I should hear you screaming from where I am about 1500 miles from you.

Thank you Wayne
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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi there all,

Just thought of something,

Mark your eating about 12 calories per pound of bodyweight, I eat about 25 per pound of bodyweight, mind you we are a different, too late, gone 4 o clock, just have to go ZZZ.

Wayne

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cmg

waynegr wrote:
Hi there all,

Hi Mark, hope Spike is ok,

See from your measurements you have quite a good body, you just need to get the bodyfat down, and hopefully at the same time KEEP all the mass, OR why not up the calories VERY slowly, I think THAT is why your not gaining the muscle, you just NEED extra calories, do you eat and drink pretty much 250 calories per day, if so why not add 50 calories per day of protein, every day for two to three weeks and see how that goes, keep a close check on your bodyfat, you might but lucky, as some people add the calories very slowly and add muscle and lose bodyfat.

But if your bodyfat goes up a bit do not worry at all, but if it goes to 21% for two weeks cut back a bit.

Funny thing you say you have gained a lot of strength without that much muscle, I see this is the same I keep hearing whatever program people do, let it be HIT. HVT or whatever, I will start a poll on this and other forums tonight.

Strength being the easiest to measure, and strength will come far faster in my opinion whatever style you chose, or whatever program you do, HIT. HVT or whatever, I also think your strength will come first if you chose Bodybuilding, Powerlifting of Strongman,

I am sure some of the other crowd here will expand on why most people get far better strength gains than muscle when they start a weight related program.
But there will be increases in strength by skill in lifting the weights at first, Fact is we are all different, all depends on your genetics, neurological efficiency, Muscle belly length, Insulin output, insulin sensitivity, Thyroid output, Thyroid sensitivity, Testosterone production, Testosterone/hormone sensitivity, Testosterone to estrogen conversion, Testosterone to DHT conversion, SHGB sensitivity Estrogen sensitivity, Growth Hormone output, Growth Hormone sensitivity, IGF output IGF sensitivity, Digestive capability, Basic protein synthesis ability, Muscle fiber composition, fast twitch fibers and slow twitch fibers.

It is well known that the relationship between strength and size is not linear, so that if you double your muscle mass, you will not double your strength, as can be seen clearly by comparing the performances of and powerlifters in different body mass divisions

Mark,
I am still unsure of your training, when you started HIT about a year ago was you doing the 14 exercises three times per week ??? In addition, with your now A. and B. workout how many days rest are in-between training days, need to know this first please,

Your exercise selection looks great.

I would go to the harder and more intense 1/2 cadence for all exercises, and go for a 15 (45sec) to 20 (60 sec) rep count,

One thing I think you may not be doing enough of is specialising, if you have not specialised that will be your problem, look at Ellington?s books they are all about specialising. Why not try Bioforces Direct Compensation Training, we have been talking about, it?s very hard, to say the least, I should hear you screaming from where I am about 1500 miles from you.

Thank you Wayne


Very thoughtful explanation Wayne.

Regards,

Ron
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markandspike

Thanks wayne.
Will try the faster higher reps and up my cals abit.I have not done any bodypart specialising at all.

To answer your question about the 14 exercise routine i used it twice a week mondays and thursdays. And used the later routine again only twice a week mondays and thursdays.

Thanks Wayne look forward to your reply.

Mark
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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi there,

Hi Mark,

I, as I said think you need more calories, but please check your bodyfat each week, but hopefully if you add the calories slowley over two to three weeks you will be eating about 100 calories more, and not put on any fat, but if you do, no worry, and long as you dont go over 22%, as I think you said you were 18%, please check, once per week same day, STRAIGHT away as you get up.

Are you still progressing in all the lifts ??? If so don?t change a thing, but if not, it may be time to work on a two to three day split working each muscle group one time per week.

If you have plateaued with Single Set to Failure, of if you?re stuck on so and so weight. Why not try some of Ellington?s advanced techniques in the book of his your reading, bigger muscles in 42 days.

Or try the VERY, and please just walk into the below route, like Ellington?s in his books, it?s brutal with a capital B, you will need a couple of break in sets to get the weights right and to get your body physically and mentally ready for the advanced techniques, try one or two bodyparts first, then you could workout like this, I would forget about the two abdomen exercises, for now, your abdomen, get plenty of work in the other exercises.

Would suggest,
Chest and back on Mon, Legs on Wed, and Arms/Shoulders on
Friday, so everything got at least 2 days off, and legs got a week off.

The program is sort of like this,

1/2 rep speed, why 1/2 rep speed, because they are harder than slower reps, and thus more intense and productive, and I can and have proved it.

Set 1, 30 reps, rest 5 minutes or a bit longer, set 2, add about 25% 15 reps, rest 5 minutes or a bit longer, set 3 add about 15% 10 reps,

Here are some of John?s writings if you are interested,

By the way 30, 15 and 10 is for hypertrophy, 20, 15, 10 and 5 is for strength.

Bioforce wrote.

The program works on the principle of "Direct Compensation" and is designed to stimulate continuous results after you have plateaued with "Single Set to Failure" of any routine where your stuck on so and so weight.

(I myself used it progressively for 14 weeks) It is very BRUTAL, and Painful. It
requires dedication to the goal and a relentless focus on each set.

The results are nothing short of phenomenal, and you will achieve your lifetime bests in each movement you have selected as "key exercises

Just make sure and throw out any and all ideas of what you thought HIGH INTENSITY was all about. This can be a whole new level, if you make sure and focus and push yourself a bit.

You must attack each set like you are running the 100m sprint and want the best "time" of your life. This MUST be done on each set. You do not let up or relax until you pass the finish line (which is the rep goal for the set).

I need to make something clear about the "high reps" perception.

I didn't set out to really do "high reps". They were a result of applying "sets to failure" to all my sets. The damndest thing happened. Weights that I thought were "HEAVY" still allowed me to do HIGH reps. I mean, if I was going to take a set to failure, and even with a heavy weight I didn't fail until 20-30 reps, what was I supposed to do???

I mean I applied taking each set (usually 3-4) to failure. Now to be sure, this was "ONLY" over two main exercises per workout and I only worked that part directly 1-2 times a week and no more.

For example if it was arm day, I would usually warm up with 135 x 15 then 205 x 15, then 225 x 5 in the CGBP (close grip bench press). I would super set this with standing E-Z Barbell curls with 105 x 15, then 135 x 15 then
155 x 15.

Well I decided to make all the sets "to failure" and things changed.
I started with 135 x 30, 205 x 15, 235 x 10 on the close grip bench super set with then 105 x 30, 135 x 15, 155 x 10 in the E-Z Curl

Hey for some "old guy" (over 50) those were pretty respectable, and you could see I wasn't "slakin"

After around 6 months of this (give or take) I ended up:

235 x 30, 275 x 15, 325 x 5 in the CGBP and 165 x 30, 205 x 15, and 265 x 6 in the E-Z Curl

Most every workout I would also do a final set of each where I would "drop" down and do a set of "very strict" stop at the top, and stop at the bottomand pause reps.

315 x 5 CGBP (dead stopping each rep on my chest)
205 x 10 EZ curls (dead stopping each rep at the bottom)

The pump after the first set will be like no pump you have ever had!!!! BUT....you have to commit to working in the pain/burn zone on the first sets.

So don't get the idea that this is a "high rep" program. All I did, was make the warm-up set count, as well as the "approach" set. So make yourself a training schedule, and each trip to the gym, know your reps and weight goal for "EACH" set, and make it. Every set is an
opportunity to set a "new personal record".

Some workouts you'll set 6 personal records, some you'll only get 1 or 2,but all you need do is match or exceed by a rep or a pound to count the record.

This way "EVERY" workout is the best workout you ever had. Each workout is a personal record and Life is good and you are "Livin' LARGE"!!!!

If you make the record on the first set, you're pretty much guaranteed (as long as you rest long enough to recover) to either match or beat the second set, and so on to the third.

These sets then provide "DIRECT" Compensation. That is the third set, even if it is not a record will improve your ability for the first set of the next session. Once that ability has been achieved it will "cascade" to ability in the 2nd and 3rd sets, and the process continues.


Thank you Wayne

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markandspike

I have up'd my cals a little and did the arm specialised routine in Dr Darden's book yesterday.
*30sec Neg, 30sec Pos, 30sec Neg Dip
*Tricep Ext
*Neg Dips
*30sec Neg, 30sec Pos, 30sec Neg Chin
*Dumbell Curl
*Neg Chins
*Calf Raises
*Leg Press

Got a very big pump in my Forearms upper arms. But today i am only sore in my Pecs and Lats. Does this sound right as thought my arms should be sore.

Mark
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cmg

markandspike wrote:
I have up'd my cals a little and did the arm specialised routine in Dr Darden's book yesterday.
*30sec Neg, 30sec Pos, 30sec Neg Dip
*Tricep Ext
*Neg Dips
*30sec Neg, 30sec Pos, 30sec Neg Chin
*Dumbell Curl
*Neg Chins
*Calf Raises
*Leg Press

Got a very big pump in my Forearms upper arms. But today i am only sore in my Pecs and Lats. Does this sound right as thought my arms should be sore.

Mark


Do your arms every get sore? That is a hard workout for your back and chest. If that doesn't work try isolation then compound (curls - neg chins). You chest and back will be fresh while your arms will be exhausted.

Ron
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HeavyHitter32

Wayne,

Are you seeing size gains from this "direct compensation" approach? And if so, what tool are you using to measure lean body mass changes?
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cmg

Wayne,

What is your age, weight, height, arm size etc. Before going to this new training how much did you weigh?

Also, do you do one exercise for each bodypart and do the 3 sets (30-15-10 rep)? How many days a week?

Thank you,

Ron
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