MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
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Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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HIT

Norway

I have experienced the same a lot of you guys, strength gains with little or no gains in muscle...

I think I'm leaving HIT (HIT: fullbody/1set workouts) for a more semi-volume workout.

Lets see how it goes.....:)
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

There are serious reasons for what you are experiencing. I would investigate before making big changes.

Regards,
Andrew
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MotorFed

California, USA

Not to be one to rain on anyone for trying something new, hell, it was trying something new that brought me to HIT in the first place (but only after reading logical, scientific research). Why do you think that adding more volume will solve your problems?

Good luck and safe training no matter what though.

Dan
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MotorFed

California, USA

Not to be one to rain on anyone for trying something new, hell, it was trying something new that brought me to HIT in the first place (but only after reading logical, scientific research). Why do you think that adding more volume will solve your problems?

Good luck and safe training no matter what though.

Dan
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splice

then do something different
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

HIT wrote:
I have experienced the same a lot of you guys, strength gains with little or no gains in muscle...

I think I'm leaving HIT (HIT: fullbody/1set workouts) for a more semi-volume workout.

Lets see how it goes....:)

I'm sorry to see this. I won't tell you that you're wrong or stupid. I'd like to explain why I know that HIT is best. I had been frustrated with lots of strength and little size. I did the exact thing that you are saying and it went from being frustrated to quitting altogether. I promise you this, most of these pros who advocate HVT don't train that way themselves, at least not the amount in the mags. Also, drugs aside, they are freaks who get great results from whatever they do and they recover a hell of a lot faster than the average man or woman. If you get stronger and stronger, then in time, and it may be a while, your results wil be forthcoming. More sets are just gonna ware your ass out and you'll probably get weaker and smaller. Take a minimum five day lay off, come in motivated, and grow like a weed. Whatever you decide, I wish you much success! When I returned to hit and trained sensibly, I got tremendous results. Dr. Darden isn't selling snake oil. He's giving you a promise that if you apply the priciples of HIT properly, in time, you'll make significant progress.
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NeuroMass

HIT wrote:
I have experienced the same a lot of you guys, strength gains with little or no gains in muscle...

I think I'm leaving HIT (HIT: fullbody/1set workouts) for a more semi-volume workout.

Lets see how it goes....:)



Generally I think this whole idea of just doing 1 set per bodypart can only apply effectively to individuals who(or bodyparts that) are very Neuromuscularly Efficient. I for one have through yars of experimenatation have discovered that some bodyparts (the more NM efficient ones) respond just fine with 1 set but for the others (the less NM efficient ones) I felt that doing 1 set just wasn't enough.

I suggest you try to gradually add another set to each bodypart and see how you respond to it. But just don't make the common mistake of going to the other extreme by changing a high volume training program altogether. Gradual progression is the best way to clearly and objectively assess and coparare your muscle's response to exercise.

PEACE.
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HamsFitness

Woooooooooooohhhhhhoa cowboys - lets not get carried away!

No body ever said do one set per muscle!
It is one set per exercise per muscle!

I found that 1 set per exercise is more than enough for a dam whuppin in the gym (be it to failure of NTF), enough for muscular fitness,endurance,size,strength,stamina so long as I do approx 1 set of 3 exercises per muscle/group.

I tried 1 set per muscle - wondered why i wasnt getting anywhere - re read HIT documents and realised I had missed the point and was being a nob!

No where does it say that you must only do 1 set per body part - it states that 1 set of any particular exercise is enough. So now I work like this -

2 times a week weights - 1 or 2 martial arts sessions

weight program goes -

-high steps (inclusive of clave raise at top)
-1 leg squats - full range butt to floor
-Pronated close grip chins
-bent over rows (supinated grip)
-widegrip bent over rows (pronate grip)
-Pec Fly
-dumbell chest press
-lateral raises
-standing dumbell presses
-barbell curl
-dumbell hammer curl
-tricep press (cable machine usually)
-Weighted dips

END

This takes about 40 minutes which makes me feel happier about my workout duration (too short leaves me feeling cheated by HIT- as i guess it does others too?) I love the HIT basic concepts and direction it has led my training -

Best thing about it the full body aspect - a split is a pain in the ass! esp if you miss a workout!

Try sticking to HIT but re read what it has to tell you and then try and multi exercise program, as opposed to one exercise per muscle group- I dont think that is enough for anyone! try working 2/3 exercises per muscle/group into your full body routine.

If you love training though and you want to be in the gym then i understand - go do what you gotta do - keep us posted on ya thing dude!

Oh and in case anyone thinks i am a lazy ass fat yabber mouth -

I am about 6`1 185lbs, 45 chest, 32 waist, approx 9-11BF, 15 3/4 arms and similar calf,25 thigh, forearms approx 13 1/2. My shoulders have clear cuts in them as does pretty much the rest of me - now I am no pin up magazine model but I look good. I havent changed much since switching from HVT to HIT about a year ago but thats soon to change :)

Cheers for reading my rant and info!

Richard
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noone

New York, USA

When I come to a sticking point, I step back and evaluate all variables involved.

I look into calories, frequency, check the quality of the previous few workouts (were the reps too fast, did the workout take too long), change to a different workout, do I need a layoff, do a superslow routine,etc. I bought most of Dr Darden's book and I can get a lot of ideas. I usually take 7-10 days off every few months.

Also, I will do look into doing a few workout from the Nautilus Bodybuilding Book, which has routines mostly on Nautilus machines. It is a good change of pace since TNHIT is a mix of free weights and machines.

After a layoff and mentally resetting, I will pick a routine and give it everything I have. At this point I am back into it ready to go.

Bret

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csmith72

I may have fallen into 1 exercise per body part trap too. I was always under the impression that anything more than one set should be a specialization routine.
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bodycoach2

Florida, USA

AShortt wrote:
There are serious reasons for what you are experiencing. I would investigate before making big changes.

Regards,
Andrew


HIT,
I have to disagree with Andrew here. I trained HIT for almost 15 years - Nautilus-Heavy Duty-Super Slow- respectively. I did the best with the 'old school' Heavy Duty recommendations, and the absolute worst with Super Slow, even though I was a Master in the SSEG.

I decided to change, did something drastic, and went with what HIT'ers call High Volume Training, a typical Body Builders workout- 6-9 sets per bodypart, 3 Days on,1 Day off split.

I got the best results of my life. Far surpassed my previous lean weight gains, arm measurement (best with HIT- 15 1/8, best with HVT 15 15/16-so close!), at my leanest condition ever- a 6mm abdominal skinfold. Best HIT overall bodyweight 170. HVT overall bodyweight 182.

Needless to say, I no longer train HIT.

I did learn something from that experience- size isn't all it's cracked up to be. The amount of food involved to even maintain that weight cause so much gas, I was constantly uncomfortable. And, I 'felt' heavy. I held the bodyweight of 183 for about 5 months before I decided I had enough.

With in a month of HVT, by back pain, and neck pain was gone. I NEVER felt overtrained, and my strength gains during that time showed it.

HIT didn't work for me- even after trying for almost 15 year, wanting it to happen.

Danny
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

bodycoach.
I'd like to know something. I'm really confused. Why in the hell are you on this board if HIT didn't work for you??? I don't go on HVT boards. Why? Cause it didn't work for me, so I do all that I can to distance myself from the approach and all of the dreadful practices. Be sure that when you start comparing training approaches, you are truly comparing "apples for apples." I hope that none of the people who are new to HIT get discouraged by the crap that's coming out of your mouth. To all of you new comers, High Intensity Training DOES WORK, but it's not a silver bullett and it won't let you obtain the impossible. Folks, focus on strength, eat well and rest well, and forget about this kind of nonsense. If HIT sucks so bad, why are you still around?
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ics1974

I say try more volume. If something isn't working now it probably won?t start working later.

Why don't your try the Dual Factor Theory. Quite a few people swear by this way of training.

ICS
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JOE W

bodycoach2 wrote:
AShortt wrote:
There are serious reasons for what you are experiencing. I would investigate before making big changes.

Regards,
Andrew

HIT,
I have to disagree with Andrew here. I trained HIT for almost 15 years - Nautilus-Heavy Duty-Super Slow- respectively. I did the best with the 'old school' Heavy Duty recommendations, and the absolute worst with Super Slow, even though I was a Master in the SSEG.

I decided to change, did something drastic, and went with what HIT'ers call High Volume Training, a typical Body Builders workout- 6-9 sets per bodypart, 3 Days on,1 Day off split.

I got the best results of my life. Far surpassed my previous lean weight gains, arm measurement (best with HIT- 15 1/8, best with HVT 15 15/16-so close!), at my leanest condition ever- a 6mm abdominal skinfold. Best HIT overall bodyweight 170. HVT overall bodyweight 182.

Needless to say, I no longer train HIT.

I did learn something from that experience- size isn't all it's cracked up to be. The amount of food involved to even maintain that weight cause so much gas, I was constantly uncomfortable. And, I 'felt' heavy. I held the bodyweight of 183 for about 5 months before I decided I had enough.

With in a month of HVT, by back pain, and neck pain was gone. I NEVER felt overtrained, and my strength gains during that time showed it.

HIT didn't work for me- even after trying for almost 15 year, wanting it to happen.

Danny

Danny thanks for honestly telling your HIT story.I want to hear both sides of the debate not just one. I have heard similiar tales many times and I know you will now be attacked by the true believers of the cult who think AJ had all the answers . Everyone I know who has a great physique does multiple sets.That's the truth !
Joe

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Coma

Illinois, USA

Well I did still consider myself a "HITer" but I guess I'm not according to some of you. I don't train with one set or train to failure anymore. But I don't use ridiculous volume either. I do 3-5 sets of the big basics. The old school 5x5 routine is incredible for size gains. I never made much progress in size with one set to failure but after I stopped training to failure and upped the volume a little I got big enough to compete in a drug tested bodybuilding contest. I've been around the gyms a long time and I?m sorry to say it but I know of only one person who looked good when doing one set to failure, and he was a heavy drug user.
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spud

bodycoach2 wrote:
Needless to say, I no longer train HIT.


Is there anything in your training that you have learned/"borrowed" from HIT? Or do you now train in a manner that in no way resembles HIT?

Failure? Slow reps? Drop sets? Machines?

bodycoach2 wrote:
I did learn something from that experience- size isn't all it's cracked up to be. The amount of food involved to even maintain that weight cause so much gas, I was constantly uncomfortable. And, I 'felt' heavy. I held the bodyweight of 183 for about 5 months before I decided I had enough.


I can totally relate to this. Everything you said is exactly as I felt.

The eating was just to much to cope with, the feeling of being heavy and bloated was not fun. I was living to eat rather than eating to live.

I was counting calories every day and eating as healthily as I could, not just randomly stuffing myself with any old cr@p before you ask!
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JJ McClinton

I think what Bodycoach2 experienced (if true) was the initial gains that you get from a blitz like what the IART describes in their books (suddenly adding volume and frequency to a physique that has been training with a certain style for a while) or shocking. I personally think theses blitzes and how Johnston describes how to train and the adaptations that your body can make to anaerobic stresses has filled in many of the holes and problems that most go through with HIT and even HVT.

I think it is funny though how all of guys who are listening to Bodycoach2 are gravitating toward the training methodolgy of a guy who's physique more closely resembles Bill Gates than that of a resistance trainer. Wish you the best.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

BodyCoach2,

First off, I wasn't saying stick to straight sets to failure, minimum routine, low frequency etc. I was suggesting that just because one extreme isn't working, going to the other isn't smart unless it has specific purpose and logical strategy.

Your gains were caused mostly from change and a more appropriate dose/response ratio. Yes, this means you weren't applying traditional HIT principles that well. Before you think me condescending let me elaborate. I am NOT saying you didn?t do as suggested by dogmatic HIT types only that you failed to tune it to your needs. You lack the skill to properly prescribe exercise for yourself. You made a major change and luckily got some results from the dramatic disruption of homeostasis. Many others have done exactly what you did and got very little in return.

I am being frank here because your remarks about not wanting too much muscle are ludicrous. You must mean fat not muscle. If you were below 10% bodyfat at 180 you would have felt stronger, lighter and faster than most of the male pop. Muscle to weight ratio is the key, more muscle means everything is easier. We are not talking about juicer size physiques here but a natural body. If you think you can honestly say that less muscle is better, you are off your rocker and have a poor understanding of basic human physiology. I think you mean you were a bit more muscular and significantly fatter though the fat was spread out all over your body and not necessarily chubby tummy fat. It is tough to maintain maximum levels of muscle while being/staying lean. However, it can be done and is very rewarding.

I refuse to play too much hit and miss, doing things as a result of running away from others. Heavy Duty, S.S., S.B. HVT, are all narrowly construed views of exercise science and GAS for that matter. It is however, a huge error in judgment to sell out training to failure because of poor applications of such (throwing out the baby with the bath water as it were). In fact, there are those individuals who because of personal physical/mental make up respond very well to the aforementioned types of HIT. They happily find one that works by mistake and live in a fools paradise. For most though, we must apply ALL the variables in strategic and sensible ways in order to make real progress.

Do what you enjoy and are content with but forget denigrating the foundations of HIT methodology, it is sound bedrock to build on.

Regards,
Andrew
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

bodycoach2 wrote:

With in a month of HVT, by back pain, and neck pain was gone. I NEVER felt overtrained, and my strength gains during that time showed it.

Danny


Danny,

Tell me more about your back and neck pain. When and how did this start?

Just Curious,
Scott
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NeuroMass

Guys,

I think all of us here is after only one thing RESULTS so don't get confused. If you feel you are not progressing on a certain type of training no matter what anyone else says then you should always take the initiative and be open minded enough to allow changes (gradual)to happen in your training and do not be afraid to experiment.

For me a systematic (not random) form of experimentation is a must to find out what is ideal training for you. On the otherhand worst mistake you can ever make as a bodybuilder is to lock ourself to a specific training concept and be too dogmatic about it. Rememeber that we are not here to see who's the most LOYAL HITer around or who has PUREST ideas around. We are here TO SEEK OUT the best way to build muscle.

In the end it wold only be you and nobody else who'll judge if a certain training program works for you or not.

PEACE.
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ryansergent

Kansas, USA

highheavy wrote:
bodycoach.
I'd like to know something. I'm really confused. Why in the hell are you on this board if HIT didn't work for you??? I don't go on HVT boards. Why? Cause it didn't work for me, so I do all that I can to distance myself from the approach and all of the dreadful practices. Be sure that when you start comparing training approaches, you are truly comparing "apples for apples." I hope that none of the people who are new to HIT get discouraged by the crap that's coming out of your mouth. To all of you new comers, High Intensity Training DOES WORK, but it's not a silver bullett and it won't let you obtain the impossible. Folks, focus on strength, eat well and rest well, and forget about this kind of nonsense. If HIT sucks so bad, why are you still around?


"I don't go on HVT boards."

This is the crux of the matter Highheavy, HVT doesn't have a board(Not so titled anyway)because it hasn't reached that cult like status yet.

Hit has a use for short periods of time but it just plain stops working and so cycling off of it is prudent. Look at all the folks on this forum who keep asking what they are doing wrong with hit and why it isn't working.

The best and most charitable advice we could give them is to cycle off this Failure training.

Bodycoach2 has much experience with HIT and failure. Not just with himself but training folks for years. When his trainees left hit for more volume they grew. ANd you know what? It doesn't take long as I'm finding out!

I felt kind of like an Ass after preaching that hit was the single best way to succeed only to find out that I had been duped. Man I thought Mike Menzer and Ken Hutchens made so much sense but they had actually built a cult out of theories. RIP Mike no disrespect to him or his family but when there hypothesis never materialized they should have come forward and said, Nothing fails like failure.

Ryan
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ryansergent

Kansas, USA

NeuroMass wrote:
Guys,

I think all of us here is after only one thing RESULTS so don't get confused. If you feel you are not progressing on a certain type of training no matter what anyone else says then you should always take the initiative and be open minded enough to allow changes (gradual)to happen in your training and do not be afraid to experiment.

For me a systematic (not random) form of experimentation is a must to find out what is ideal training for you. On the otherhand worst mistake you can ever make as a bodybuilder is to lock ourself to a specific training concept and be too dogmatic about it. Rememeber that we are not here to see who's the most LOYAL HITer around or who has PUREST ideas around. We are here TO SEEK OUT the best way to build muscle.

In the end it wold only be you and nobody else who'll judge if a certain training program works for you or not.

PEACE.


Amen Brother!

Ryan
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bodycoach2

Florida, USA

highheavy wrote:
bodycoach.
I'd like to know something. I'm really confused. Why in the hell are you on this board if HIT didn't work for you??? I don't go on HVT boards. Why? Cause it didn't work for me, so I do all that I can to distance myself from the approach and all of the dreadful practices. Be sure that when you start comparing training approaches, you are truly comparing "apples for apples." I hope that none of the people who are new to HIT get discouraged by the crap that's coming out of your mouth. To all of you new comers, High Intensity Training DOES WORK, but it's not a silver bullett and it won't let you obtain the impossible. Folks, focus on strength, eat well and rest well, and forget about this kind of nonsense. If HIT sucks so bad, why are you still around?


HIGHHEAVY- As someone else here has said, there are no HVT boards. HVT has no 'following' like HIT does. Someday, I may actually explain why I come to boards like this. Some will have figured it out by now. Some already know.

If you've read any of my material, which I'll be glad to send you for free, you'd see that I'm comparing apples to apples. If you'd like my stuff, go to my coachdanny.net website, and email me from there. I'll reply it to you. THEN, you can determine if I know what I'm talking about.

Danny
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bodycoach2

Florida, USA

Spud asked,
"Is there anything in your training that you have learned/"borrowed" from HIT? Or do you now train in a manner that in no way resembles HIT?

Failure? Slow reps? Drop sets? Machines? "

I did learn alot in my years of HIT.
1. Super Slow is the best way to teach exercise, initially. All new trainees shoud use it to learn proper form and technique.
2. Most HIT'ers actually have a more advanced knowledge of biomechanics as applied to strength training, than other 'factions' of training. This has been a great advantage since my change-over.
3. HIT, like other training methods, is another tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It should be used and treated as a tool, not a way of life.

The way I train now in no way resembles HIT.
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bodycoach2

Florida, USA

AShortt wrote:
BodyCoach2,

First off, I wasn't saying stick to straight sets to failure, minimum routine, low frequency etc. I was suggesting that just because one extreme isn't working, going to the other isn't smart unless it has specific purpose and logical strategy.

Your gains were caused mostly from change and a more appropriate dose/response ratio. Yes, this means you weren't applying traditional HIT principles that well. Before you think me condescending let me elaborate. I am NOT saying you didn?t do as suggested by dogmatic HIT types only that you failed to tune it to your needs. You lack the skill to properly prescribe exercise for yourself. You made a major change and luckily got some results from the dramatic disruption of homeostasis. Many others have done exactly what you did and got very little in return.

I am being frank here because your remarks about not wanting too much muscle are ludicrous. You must mean fat not muscle. If you were below 10% bodyfat at 180 you would have felt stronger, lighter and faster than most of the male pop. Muscle to weight ratio is the key, more muscle means everything is easier. We are not talking about juicer size physiques here but a natural body. If you think you can honestly say that less muscle is better, you are off your rocker and have a poor understanding of basic human physiology. I think you mean you were a bit more muscular and significantly fatter though the fat was spread out all over your body and not necessarily chubby tummy fat. It is tough to maintain maximum levels of muscle while being/staying lean. However, it can be done and is very rewarding.

I refuse to play too much hit and miss, doing things as a result of running away from others. Heavy Duty, S.S., S.B. HVT, are all narrowly construed views of exercise science and GAS for that matter. It is however, a huge error in judgment to sell out training to failure because of poor applications of such (throwing out the baby with the bath water as it were). In fact, there are those individuals who because of personal physical/mental make up respond very well to the aforementioned types of HIT. They happily find one that works by mistake and live in a fools paradise. For most though, we must apply ALL the variables in strategic and sensible ways in order to make real progress.

Do what you enjoy and are content with but forget denigrating the foundations of HIT methodology, it is sound bedrock to build on.

Regards,
Andrew



Andrew,
You said, " Yes, this means you weren't applying traditional HIT principles that well. Before you think me condescending let me elaborate. I am NOT saying you didn?t do as suggested by dogmatic HIT types only that you failed to tune it to your needs. You lack the skill to properly prescribe exercise for yourself"

I would like to respond to this, but the first question that comes to mind is - HOW can you know this to be true? HOW can you know what adjustments I made in 15 years of HIT training? HOW can you know what I did and didn't do. That's quite a omnipotent view you have. If you REALLY are able to determine that, you should have your own TV show. No, I don't think you condescending, just surprised by your ability to make that determination with what little information you've been given.

Andrew said, "If you were below 10% bodyfat at 180 you would have felt stronger, lighter and faster than most of the male pop."

My response- I use to believe that too, that muscle was of prime importance. But, your response show that you haven't 'been there'. I was stronger, but HOW could I be lighter????
You also said, "Muscle to weight ratio is the key, more muscle means everything is easier." This is another HIT cliche, and in my experience, not true. I've seen so many bodybuilders struggle walking up stairs, or very labored breathing trying to make their flight.

As HIT'ers, we've been preached the whole muscle/weight thing over and over again, but I'm saying, "It just ain't true." You don't have to believe me. But, when you do eventually get there, let me know if you still feel the same.

Andrew said, "I think you mean you were a bit more muscular and significantly fatter though the fat was spread out all over your body and not necessarily chubby tummy fat."

My response- all my skinfold measurements came down at their statisically repective ratio's. I use the abdominal skinfold on a weekly basis to watch 'trends'. I'm the type that gains first in my belly, and looses the belly last, so that was a significant measurement for me. At the start of my dramatic change experiment, my ab skinfold was 15mm. Within three months, it was 6mm. So, according to your theory, I lost it in my belly ONLY, but gained everywhere else.

Andrew, I know enough about physiology to know THAT ISN'T possible, without surgery. If you really want to go the physiology route, I'm up for a physiology Podcast duel, if you are. We could google-talk it. Might be fun.

Andrew, as far as the 'felt heavy' thing goes; keep in mind my perspective. For 12 years, I was a competative gymnast. VERY strong, at a competative weight of 139- at the MOST. If I gained 5 lbs, it would send me flying off Pommel Horse. If I dropped 5 lbs, my Pommel routine was much easier. My experience was a PERCEPTION, based on my history, not what everyone else experiences. I felt far stronger when I was a gymnast.

Keep in mind HIT's history: It evolved from a Bodybuilding background, as that perspective does indeed skew the ideas and concepts, especially when it's attempt wrt performance training.

The biggest thing I've learned since I left HIT- Strength and size do NOT go hand-in-hand. Size is possible with little in the way of strength gains (because of chemistry), and strength can be gained with little to no 'percieved' size increase (I know alot of HIT'ers have experienced that last part).

Danny
The Heretic
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