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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

I just seen a post on T-nation about the Metabolic diet. I wanted to get some opionions from some of the regulars on this site.

For those who don't know what the diet is, Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale has come up with a way of eating that is supposed to make your body burn fat as its primary fuel instead instead of what the body takes in from carbs.

Basically your diet is almost all protein and fat with little carbs. You have to tinker to figure out how much is right for you, but in most cases its less than 100 carbs a day. Then on weekends you carb up very heavily until your physique starts smoothing out and then you go back to the normal metabolic diet.
There is also a 2-week break in period where there is no carb up to allow your body to switch to a fat-burning mode for fuel.
Almost a year ago now I read the book "the anabolic diet" Bodybuilding edition. (there is one geared for powerlifters to.)
I did note a few things with this diet.

1. I felt awsome on this diet. I just felt great, but I attribute this more now to the fact i was having a raw salad with just about every meal as I was using Extra virgin olive oil to get more calories into me.

2. Even with upwards of 6000 calories a day I was not getting fat. Again though I believe I can contribute this to the amount of hockey I play as I was trying this diet during the season and not the off-season.

3. As promised in the book I knew exactly when my body would look best during the week. I was working out twice a week on the same days and the carb up was always the weekends. As a result "EVERY" week on tuesday around late afternoon I looked best. Muscles looked full and defined. He says this can be used by competing bodybuilders to help nail there peak. I have never competed but I would think this would be very valuable to anyone who has to show there best and can nail it down to the hour. Of course you would just change the routine so it met up with the day and time of the competition.

Unfortuantly I was doing a HD2 workout during this time and I don't think i would have gained much size regardless of what I was eating because it was just undertraining for me at that time. With this being said though I couldn't put on fat during the diet even with large amounts of calories. To eat as much as I did and not put on fat was cool. I was never hungry on the diet.

So if anyone has any experience with this diet and just has an opinion on it I would like to hear it.

Thanks

Michael


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logicbdj

Ontario, CAN

There is an article on our site by Mauro... look for the Synergy 2006 link in our 'education resources' section. There you will find a free PDF download article on Phase Shift Dieting. This provides a general background as to his reasoning for such eating.
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swilkins1984

I was curious about Dr. Di Pasquale diet. I have a copy of his Anabolic Diet and Serious Strength Training which he co-authored. I have never seen muscle gain on a low carb diet but once I finish losing all my remaining fat I will definitely give it a go. I like to experience different methods and hopefully learn a way to make them all synergistically work for me.
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UseAsDirected

I took a look at the free .pdf download at metabolicdiet.com and he really pushes the supplements which he happens to sell on his site. Am I right in thinking that all the supplements aren't necessary, aside maybe from a multivitamin?
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Jer Bear

Illinois, USA

The "problem" with these ultra low carb diets it that it puts TOO MUCH stress on your system. This is wy you loss the weight, you are forcing your body to do something that is un natural.

Do you ever wonder why you put on fat, after a high pro diet, from carbs? Its because you have stressed your body tot he point it is in survival mode. Its going to store what ever carbs it can get because it doesn't know when you are going to put it through hell again.

Do you know why your breath stinks and your body odor is strong on a ultra high pro diet? Its because your body is using its largest organ, the skin, to rid itself of the enormous waste produced by processing the high amounts of protien.

I think the biggest draw to high pro diets is the amount of food you can eat. Its easier to put useless food in your body than to cut back on serving sizes. Don't think its useless? Then why diesn't the body store it? The body has no use for the extra protien. Your are crapping out about $5 a pound! Your crap probably has more protien in it than what a high pro dog food has, in the beginning!

Jerry, sorry about the rant....take what you want and leave the rest....


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Mr. Strong

You ate salads all the time and you weren't hungry??? I eat a salad and then I'm hungry about 20 minutes after.

You want to know the perfect diet, its called the "seefood" diet, I see food and eat it.

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JohnV474

For what it's worth, I spoke to a doctor relative about low carb diets and he emphatically agreed with the main points proposed by Jer Bear--namely, that they work well but that they are very stressful to the body.

According to him, in the early 1900's there was a trend to use high-fat diets to lose weight, 80+% fat (ugh). They worked well but let to problems with (I think) the kidneys or liver.

I think it's difficult to beat a variety of regular food bought from your local supermarket, and just eat less of it.

JohnV474
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Mr. Strong

Also, I love all of these new scientific diets coming out all the time. I always ask myself how did the ancients (Roman, Mongols, Greeks, Spartans, etc) build such unbelievable fitness without all of modern day science, then I realise, because its bloody simple.
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UseAsDirected

I understand that a lot of people feel very strongly in their views against low-carb. However, I don't feel the same way. I was hoping someone with first-hand experience would let me know if they were successful despite ignoring Dr. DiPasquale's insistance that you use his supplements.
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eintology

California, USA

bigmikep wrote:

Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale has come up with a way of eating

upwards of 6000 calories a day


What's his other business, operating a chain of mortuaries?

Look at the science.

This isn't an eating plan -- it's a pre-mature death sentence.

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Coma

Illinois, USA

I can't believe all the ignorance out there. Yeah, look at the science, we're not in the 1980's anymore. I've had conversations about this with a few doctors and the ones who keep up on recent research (believe it or not, some don't) are in favor of lower carb diets. I was told by my doctor to cut back on the carbs or I'd end up on diabetes drugs. That means cutting out crap like cereal, breads, pasta and potatoes. I still eat plenty of salads and vegetables.

I've been on the Anabolic Diet for well over a year now and I'm bigger, stronger, leaner and most importantly, healthier than ever. I do eat more carbs on the weekend so you don't have to be a social leper by doing that.

I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes was told by my doctor that the best thing I could do is cut back on the carbs, and he was right. There was no way I was going on drugs.

I used to use a lower protein, high carb diet but I was a mess. Cholesterol, triglycerides and blood sugar where out of control. Not anymore, I'm well within normal ranges now. And when I'd try to bulk up I just got fat. When I would diet I'd lose a lot of muscle, get skinny and still be smooth.

I even dropped out of a bodybuilding contest because I looked terrible. I never had a problem getting in shape when I stick to a lower carb diet. Yes it's true, some people can get away with a high carb diet but most can't.

Another good book on the same subject is the TNT Diet.
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eintology

California, USA

Coma wrote:
I can't believe all the ignorance out there. Yeah, look at the science, we're not in the 1980's anymore. I've had conversations about this with a few doctors and the ones who keep up on recent research (believe it or not, some don't) are in favor of lower carb diets. I was told by my doctor to cut back on the carbs or I'd end up on diabetes drugs. That means cutting out crap like cereal, breads, pasta and potatoes. I still eat plenty of salads and vegetables.


Do you have any background in this subject, beyond Flex Magazine?

Your physician is just placating your interest in bodybuilding. If he supports a 6,000 calorie a day diet, as an internist, he should have his license revoked.

I don't know what science you've been looking at, but your doctors would be well advised to get beyond "Highlights For Children."

The load on the pancreas, cellular turnover rates and protein uncoupling, on a diet of this type, are so rediculously elevated, it's hardly worth discussion.

I am not talking about whether or not a person is eating x or z amount of carbs.
This is not a protein versus carb issue.

And no one here is talking about the 1980's.
Although, the bodybuilders of the 1940's were probably more on target; as far as this subject is concerned, than you are.

You can go back even further. The eminent Clive McCay was already was doing research on this in the 1930's.

If you don't like that idea, look at the studies that are currently being conducted at the NIA, The University of Wisconsin, Madison, and St Louis University, along with any long living population base.

Consuming anywhere near 6,000 caloies a day, as a daily -- life long practice; would serve little more than to increase mortality rates, at a staggering rate, unequivocobly.

If your concern is overpopulation of the planet, as it relates to survival curves, this particualr diet that you are espousing, would be a very good way of remedying the situation.

Erik


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Coma

Illinois, USA

Erik, your post is almost funny, you just don't have a clue. You want studies? Take a look at the studies out of the University of Connecticut. And I never said I eat 6000 calories a day. I'm 260lbs. and I don't need anywhere near that. As far my bodybuilding goes, my doctor doesn't give a shit about that, he had me do this for my health.

And I've talked with other doctors who agree with him. So Dr. Erik, if this diet is so bad maybe you can explain why I got so much healthier after making the change.

I'm not going to get into a big argument about this. Everyone can do whatever they want.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

This post takes me back. Heavy Duty 2. lol.

I have learned so much more since that post.

I abondoned the metabolic diet and tried the Nautilus diet. It was a disaster for me.

I think alot of people fail to realize that what will work for one person will not be good for another.

I again follow a metabolic style diet but I am now a raw food eater mostly. However this means eggs, milk, cream, butter and red meat all completely raw. Not just fruits and veggies.

Got this from Randy Roach.

My strengh and size went up like clock work.

It was a 200lb person who wrote that orginal post. Raw food eating and constant experiment has brought me up to 230. well 228 Today.

When the protein and fat are in raw forms it is amazing how much the body can assimilate and how easy it is to digest.

When I get a new trainee at my gym who wants to build muscle I tell them one thing to get started. Do whatever it is your doing for eating and training and add a dozen raw eggs a day (farm fresh) and tell me what happens. Without one exception thus far, they build muscle.

Michael
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eintology

California, USA

Coma wrote:
Erik, your post is almost funny, you just don't have a clue.


No, of course I don't.

Only a couple of people on this forum have a clue, depending on how they tow the company line that week, and if they attended Arthur Jones wake or not, but shouldn't there be at least one "bullshit" in there, followed by no supporting legible discourse?

You want studies?

No, not really. I'm already aware of the studies. It's not even close.

However if you are going to post some, preferably, they won't be something from the researchers at Testosterone Magazine, not for this one.

Take a look at the studies out of the University of Connecticut.

Why? What do they suggest? That the Huskies; given their latest recruiting class, U Conn, could make it to the Final Four, this season?

There is no study coming out of the University of Connecticut that would dispute anything that I am saying.

And I never said I eat 6000 calories a day.

That's lucky. And I never said you did?

I didn't drag the number 6,000 down from the sky. I don't think I imagined that upwards of 6,000 calories was part of the protocol....

I'm 260lbs.

Sorry to see that. How tall are you, 5'6"?

As far my bodybuilding goes, my doctor doesn't give a shit about that, he had me do this for my health.

I knew there would be at least one shit in there.

He doesn't give a shit about your bodybuilding? I don't know that I would be seeing a doctor that didn't give a shit about the patients lifestyle.

What have you and your physician established as part of a doctor patient relationship, during your office visits ... who should be playing shortstop for the Cubs?

And I've talked with other doctors who agree with him.

Oh they do, do they? Well tell Dr. Kirvorkian, and his constituents, that there are far faster and easier ways to get a person off the planet, but given their unanimously agreed upon recommendations, I will be sending them my neighbor.

So Dr. Erik, if this diet is so bad maybe you can explain why I got so much healthier after making the change.

Healthier in what respect? You've known of long living people, who weigh 260lbs., in radiant health, do you?

Send your blood panels to: The Church of The Living Horse Whisperers, I'd be happy to give them a look.

I'm not going to get into a big argument about this. Everyone can do whatever they want.

No, and I wouldn't either, if I were you, but have you ever known an offense to punt on first down?

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stevecollins33

A quick quiz for all the Lords of Low Fatdom:

1)Why is it that Eskimo people despite a diet incredibly rich in fat and protein, yet very low carbs, have little history of heart disease?

2)What is one of the key reasons Type II diabetes in adults is soaring in the Western world?

The answers: 1) Two words - Omega fats. 2) Excessive consumption of high GI carbs causing regular insulin variations.

Dr Mauro DiPasquale may seem like a revolutionary but his guidance regarding high fat/protein diet is well-grounded in history and science. Low-carb eating is no longer a fad and more and more authorities are slowly beginning to recognise the role fats play regarding healthy living.

The second facet not wholly appreciated until now regards insulin levels and obesity, most commonly associated with carbohydrate intake as opposed to fat intake.
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Jer Bear

Illinois, USA

stevecollins33 wrote:
A quick quiz for all the Lords of Low Fatdom:

1)Why is it that Eskimo people despite a diet incredibly rich in fat and protein, yet very low carbs, have little history of heart disease?

Its all pure and unprocessed. But I'm not about to chew on bubber for the rest of my life! Plus, their environment. A cold, freezing environment, needs a high energy intake to keep the body working properly. Now, take that same diet to a typical American in a controled temped environment. I doubt you would be as healthly as the Eskimos.

2)What is one of the key reasons Type II diabetes in adults is soaring in the Western world?

Eating too much! With the average McD's "value meal" having 1200 cal "before upgrading", You can see this is like giving an addict free range of a drug store.


Dr Mauro DiPasquale may seem like a revolutionary but his guidance regarding high fat/protein diet is well-grounded in history and science. Low-carb eating is no longer a fad and more and more authorities are slowly beginning to recognise the role fats play regarding healthy living.

Most Dr's are GIVING UP of low carb, because their patients WON"T do it. They want a pill or the green light to eat what ever they want. They do not want to take responsiblity ans change the way they eat, or the amount they eat. I understand a little. We have all three kids into something. I might take one and head to a softball or volleyball game, and the wife take the other to tutoring or cheerleading. I have to sit down once a week and plan out a menu to make sure we have healthy meals READY TO EAT on the go. I have to prep the lettuce and tomatoes, and make sure the pantry is full. We also have emergancy use only plans for McDs, but Subway is our fast food choice. It takes time and work to read the labels and plan ahead. Most folks don't want to do it. They will plan for a gourging weekend at the local hangup for the game, but won't do the same for their own health.

The second facet not wholly appreciated until now regards insulin levels and obesity, most commonly associated with carbohydrate intake as opposed to fat intake.


Once again, the these levels have to do with excess eating of processed junk.

The one thing that a low carb diet does is stop you from eating the junk food that screws up everything for good whole grain carbs. But, pork rinds IS NOT HEALTH FOOD! And thanks to modern profiterring, we now have the most low carb ding dongs and twinkies int eh world! So, the eating habits are not changed and the deadly cycle goes on.

So, a balanced diet is low/no processed foods, both carbs and protein is a good way to go. Even pure Vegan diets are lacking, you need a complete diet. Its not easy, at first. But either is starting a workout program. When it is all said and done, I buy better grades of meats and veggies and breads that all cost more but my overall food bill has went down. Our garbage and throwaways has been cut down to half. Even the dogs are losing weight due to not eating the leftovers!

Now, I do have a simply protein powder that I include in our morning smoothies and after workout smoothies. They are easier to intake when on the go. We don't live off of them, just to add 50 grams of whey proteins on the days we workout. Truefully, I would rather have a few ounces of turkey on whole wheat, but my daughter needs it because she just about hates meat. So its a compermise.

Jerry

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jack32

big mike,
i've eaten this way since the late 70s.
gironda use to have his students eat 2-3 dozen raw eggs a day to put on LBM.
my energy level at age 52 is never ever down on this diet.

tonight's dinner-- 3 fertile eggs, scrambled, 2oz. raw cheese, 7 pieces uncured, antibiotic, hormone free bacon, yum.
no cholesterol problems, no joint problems. lean year round eating this way.

ron kosloff of nsp nutrition, a gironda student, has told me there's so much BS regarding nutrition and the need for carbs.

vince laid the groundwork for the low carb eating and dr. dipasquale and many others have taken it to the next level.
the weekend carb ups are great.
mike-

here's a great weekend treat.
this is my high protein/ low glycemic french toast recipe:

3 raw eggs, 2 scoops of cookies and creme muscle milk, smidge of organic 1/2 and 1/2, plus a couple of oz. of water. whip with a fork.

4 pieces of food for life raisin bread.
dip the bread into the mix and cook at 350 degrees on a griddle. top with raw butter and cinammon.

approximately 53 gr. protein/ 72 gr. carb. take a digestive enzyme or 2 w/ this mixed meal.

the muscle milk is great for this because of the high fat content.
enjoy.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Hello jack32

I am well read with Gironda and DePasquale(spelling?)
I always tell people to experiment and see what works for them. High Protein Hight fat diet works far better for me. I keep my bodyfat up around 12-14% now because i feel better. Espcially in Canadian winter. However on this diet I can lean right out in a month.

speaking of Ron Kosloff - His Liver tabs are the only supplement I have right now.

If you can get your hands on some raw cream (unpasturized) mix it with eggs and and you basically have muscle in a bottle. To bad the government says its illegal and thus very hard to get.

Let me clear up the 6000 calorie a day thing. I was playing hockey 4-5 times a week and doing HIT training. I could consume this amount of calories easily. However what I stated about it only working well with proteins and fats was true for me.

another quick story. a friend of mine who trains at my gym had high cholesterol. I started training him 3x per week and getting him to eat a dozen raw eggs a day. He took his yearly physical and his cholesterol numbers where down 15 points.

The doctor asked him what he was doing differently. Upon telling the doctor about the eggs the doc freaked out and gave him the Canadian food guide. Also my client was forced to take another check up a month later.

He continued training but was also drinking to excess everyweekend and following my diet half ass. However the training and eggs stayed true. His numbers dropped another 4 points in the next month. This time the doc just said, "continue doing what works"

Thats all I can recommened to people. "Do what works for you"

Michael
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tpowers21

Bigmike

How dose the low carb diet effect your ice hockey ? Does anyone else play sports on a low carb diet and what effect dose it have .
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

I was fine on the low carb diet. I found recovery to be quicker and I was able to maintain weight much easier on hi pro/ hi fat.

The body converts over to using fat as it primary fuel souce instead of sugar(carbs).

As for the other guys, we had guys experiment with performance enhancers, also we had guys snorting ephedrine before the games and between periods.

So its hard to tell u how they did. Also most took protein shakes or gatoraide through out the game mostly because someone told them to.

I don't recommend either. Under intense conditions the body wont digest it and it will just sit in your stomach. I always stuck to distilled water.

Michael
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DownUnderLifter

This is an excerpt from a Boyer Coe interview where he talks about his diet:

"There are a variety of theories on off season dieting, some in which bodybuilders consume upto 400 grams of protein each day. For years I used to eat steak after steak, but never made the gains I make now. The large amount of fat was dificult to digest and burdened my digestive system.
"A bodybuilders diet should be low in fat year around.
"The best sources of protein year-round are egg whites and white meats such as poultry and fish. To reduce fat consumption the skin should be removed and the puoltry broiled. No foods should ever be fried"
"If you have trouble gaining muscle you should consider low-fat milk products.
"Overall I don't feel any bodybuilder needs to consume more than 200 g's of animal source protein per-day broken up between 5 or 6 smaller meals. The human body can only utilize 25 to 30 grams at a time. Two or 3 of these meals can come in the form of a protein drink.
"Other than protein, the remainder of your off-season intake should be good quaility complex carbohydrates such as baked potatoes, rice, other whole grains and most vegetables. Avoid refined carbs such as sugar and white flour.
"Off season diet should be no more than 100 to 200 calories per day over your caloric maintenance level.
"Its difficult to avoid fats totally and a small amount is necessary for health and is good for your nerves. Its difficult to reduce fat intake much under 40 to 50 grams per day.
"My pre-contest diet contains approximately 200 grams of protein and a minimum of 200 grams of carbs. Figuring in 50 grams of fats would amount to 2000 calories ( well below my caloric maintenance level. Prior to competition I'm training hard and also doing an hour of cardio a day )
"I adjust my carbohydrate intake up or down depending on how quickly I am losing body fat.
"The trick to peaking is to play with the total number of calories according to how your body looks in the mirror. If I'm personally looking too smooth, I'll cut back on calories a little at a time and increase aerobic training. If I am peaking too quickly I will eat more calories in the form of complex carbohydrates.
"When you're on a strict pre-contest diet, its essentail that you supplement with extra vitamins and minerals."- Boyer Coe.

This seems like a good balance to me.

Cheers
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Mr. Strong

stevecollins33 wrote:
A quick quiz for all the Lords of Low Fatdom:

1)Why is it that Eskimo people despite a diet incredibly rich in fat and protein, yet very low carbs, have little history of heart disease?

2)What is one of the key reasons Type II diabetes in adults is soaring in the Western world?

The answers: 1) Two words - Omega fats. 2) Excessive consumption of high GI carbs causing regular insulin variations.

Dr Mauro DiPasquale may seem like a revolutionary but his guidance regarding high fat/protein diet is well-grounded in history and science. Low-carb eating is no longer a fad and more and more authorities are slowly beginning to recognise the role fats play regarding healthy living.

The second facet not wholly appreciated until now regards insulin levels and obesity, most commonly associated with carbohydrate intake as opposed to fat intake.



Its called the correct amount of exercise, they don't do it, hence the reason they are obese, this is why they have so many health problems, no activity, the human body doesn't like it.

So you low carb people must not eat many fruits or vegetables where do you get the missing vitmains and minerals.

Also do you actually count how much of a certain type of food you are consuming? I would find this dull.
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Max

Oklahoma, USA

There are some great posts here, expect for a couple of people. First, Jer Bear who in his profile he described his bodyfat % as "too much!" and then chimes in on the subject. Geez, at least lie about it so it looks like you have some credibility.

This reminds me of the fatties at work who like to question my lunch of vegetables and meat while they eat their whole grains or brown rice yet wonder why they can't lose weight. Whole grain bread is healthy right? How's that working out for you?

And then there's eintology. Another with no credibility. His response to Coma was nothing but senseless gibberish, having no point other than being a smartass, and not a very good one at that. And what's with this stupid quote regarding Coma weighing 260lbs.? "Sorry to see that. How tall are you, 5'6"?" First of he's 5'-11" but what's your point? Should he be 6'-1" and an anorexic 180lbs.? Time hit the gym and eat a little food.

Also, "Healthier in what respect? You've known of long living people, who weigh 260lbs., in radiant health, do you?"

Well my father is still going strong at age 73 and weighs 250lbs. My grandfather lived to be 94, he was 6' 280lbs. Another dumb statement. I could go on but enough of my ranting.

As for myself, I used to be one of the biggest critics of low carb diets. But after being fat and unhealthy while eating a very clean high carb diet I decided to do some research. I switched to a low carb diet and I'm in my best shape ever, I feel great and my blood work is perfect now.

Here's an excellent article about some of the benefits of a low carb diet.

The Cure for Diabetes

http://www.menshealth.com/...00012281eac____

I can't wait for some of the dumb responses this will get. Like I said, I was a huge critic of low carb diets until I actually did some research, then did it and got great results. I'd recommend this diet to anyone who wants to get lean and healthy.
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Max

Oklahoma, USA

tpowers21 wrote:
Bigmike

How dose the low carb diet effect your ice hockey ? Does anyone else play sports on a low carb diet and what effect dose it have .


Charles Poliquin works with some NHL teams and he recommends a low carb diet. Doug Weight switched to a low carb diet a few years ago and said he has more energy and got into his best shape ever. He's not the player he used to be but he's still going strong at age 37.

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