"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."
This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.
To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.
There as been quite a bit of talk lately about ideal rep speed on this boared. It has been great to read and although there is no set answer or agreement and has been thought prevolking. At the end of the day we all have to understand that right and wrong don't exist on this topic. There is only what works and what doens't work for you as an individual. I find a 3/3 or 4/4 cadance works fine for most but this doesn't make it right.
My question though lies in how people are performing negative reps. Myself and people I train have been trying to lower a weight in 10 seconds and keep doing this until a weight cannot be lowered under control in 3-4 seconds.
I watched Casey Viator train someone on his DVD the other night and all negative reps were performed with 3 seconds of lowering. Still looked under control, but nothing like doing it the first way I posted. It made me wonder because I have been experimenting lately with a 4 second positive 2 second negative as was posted in a previous thread. This seems to make the workouts much harder so I wander if 3 second negatives for all reps, would be more intense then doing it the way I have been doing it.
I usually start off with a weight I can lower in about 5-8 seconds in perfect form and I continue until I'm only able to lower in about 2 seconds because of fatigue. This changes because of saftey though. For a one arm DB curl, I might continue having my partner lift to the top until I'm lowering in only a second as there is less danger IMO. The DB bounces lightly off my thigh, big deal(I do these with slight bend in the knees and feet a few inches wider than shoulders). Other exercises might present more of a risk, like overhead presses(I wouldn't go less than 3 seconds here). If you can still come in for a soft landing, keep going. It's all about my sense of danger on these.
During normal sets I perform the negatives just slowly enough to be able to maintain reasonably strict form and turnaround smoothly. During negative only, negative-accentuated, or forced-negatives, I slow the negatives down just a little more since with a much heavier weight you're not getting any rest by moving too slowly during the negative.
With clients, I have them go about 5 seconds, so I can watch their form more easily and it makes it easier for most people to reverse direction smoothly. We err on the slow side with clients for safety.
I have found a 3 second positive and 6 second negative works best for the positive assisted(hyper) reps I perform on 4-way neck exercises, 4 second positive and 8 second negative on bicep and tricep exercises performed in tne same manner.
Thank you for all the posts. Next off-season I plan to experiment with hyper training. I have to be very careful of not taxing my syetem too much when Im on season.
And thanks Dr. Darden for adding your piece, thats exactly how I've been performing them.
Ellington Darden wrote:
Jones and I have written several times about the "how-to" of negative-only repetitions.
For example, in an 8-repetition set of negative-only chins:
* The first two should take 8-10 seconds each.
* The second two should take 6-8 seconds.
* The third two should take 4-6 seconds.
* The fourth two should take 2-4 seconds.
* Any more after that would be guided lowering, where you would be unable to STOP smooth movement. Usually these would be less than 2 seconds, so it's an indication that you should end the exercise.
The above guidelines appy to negative-only chins and dips, but they could be used with any exercises where assistants are doing most of the positive lifting for you.
I never knew this and i thought i've read it all! Interesting..
what i am thinking is why not turn it around use this cadence scheme in reverse for the traditional concentric/eccentric workout? hmmm.. thinking out loud ,,as one fatigues in a set maybe one should progressively step-up the cadence on the concentric side to get past any stealth sticking points inherent in the rep, this extra speed near end of set might allow one to squeeze out another rep concentrically which you can then milk ECCENTRICALLY for all its worth! It's the last few reps that matter the most you know!
I'm thinking smthg along these lines for a traditional CON/ECC workout (NOT neg-only):
The first two should take 8-10 seconds each CONCENTRICALLY/4-5 ECCENTRICALLY
The second two should take 6-8 seconds CON/4-5 ECC
The third two should take 4-6 seconds CON/6-8 ECC
The fourth two should take 2-4 seconds CON/8-10 ECC
What do you think about this unique rep scheme, again it is for a traditional CON/ECC set.
I rarely train negative-only, when I do I stick as closely as possible to the protocol Dr. Darden posted (I got the idea from one of his books). Unfortunately, it requires assistants to properly and safely perform most negative only/accentuated exercises.
For normal reps. The positive portion takes an average of 2 to 3 seconds, and the negative atleast twice that. I believe that slow negatives came out well in a study done by Wayne Westcott. I personally do much better with a slower negative as opposed to a slower positive. Of course, the time per rep is dependent upon the allowable range of motion (a pullover rep takes longer than a wrist curl rep). I do not recall seeing a study showing very slow positives superior for advanced trainees.