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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Not Training Hard Enough?
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rtestes

Mississippi, USA

I, too, wish I could see Drew or anyone taking a 30-60 sec rest between sets. If running from machine to machine is reputed to help with growth hormone production, What growth results has Drew or anyone seen?

I don't think I would ever buy into that tale, I am sorry, science.
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

rtestes wrote:
I, too, wish I could see Drew or anyone taking a 30-60 sec rest between sets. If running from machine to machine is reputed to help with growth hormone production, What growth results has Drew or anyone seen?

I don't think I would ever buy into that tale, I am sorry, science.


Next workout is scheduled for Wed. I can stretch the rest out a little. I don't think I'd need to wait as long as 60 sec between exercises, however. If I do, I'll edit out the minute in between so you don't have to sit around watching me sit around, which wouldn't be very interesting.

Normally, we only rush between the pre-exhaust pairs, the others we take a little longer to get to. We don't take time off, we just don't rush to them.

Maybe Dr. Darden would be so kind as to stop by and put me or Jon through one of the workouts from the new book?
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gmw5

New Zealand

I think cherry should be banned.
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rtestes

Mississippi, USA

Sounds great! Has Dr. Darden ever trained you? Now that would be a great sendoff for the new book. In that case, leave the rest time in for his possible comments.
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Yes

I dont think it would make that much difference if Drew rested between exercises. He seems very well conditioned and his performance did not seem to suffer from the lack of rest.
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henry_bordeaux

gmw5 wrote:
I think cherry should be banned.





should cherry be banned because he's speaking out the truth?
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Ellington Darden

I do not believe Cherry needs to be banned. He just writes with a bite. Furthermore, there's a lot of meaningful guidelines mixed in with what he says.

Ellington
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Crotalus

Drew ;

I immediately assumed that your low reps in the compound movements was a result of over estimating what you could do after pre-ex'ing - that's a common mistake after not pre-ex'ing in awhile. You correct it next time, what's the big deal ?

I started pre-ex'ing this past spring after not doing so in many years and it's a shock how much the isolation taps your strength. Actually I should say a 'Pre-ex order', as I'm taking 45 seconds between exercises and am using JREPS. Plus, it's the first time in many years I've used any single joint moves other than calf raises and shrugs.

Is that workout typical of the length of your workouts ... about ten minutes ?

When my own workouts sometimes got below 20 minutes I'd start to wonder if I was doing too little volume at less than 60 minutes a week.

I guess your total training time for the week is under one hour ? I'm just curious ... mine totaling about 70 minutes a week now. As I mentioned before, in my insane quest for intensity in the past, my all time low was about 20 minutes a week ; I reached a Mentzer Consolidation Routine on my own without even knowing one existed, LOL.

Thanks for taking the time for providing the video and don't let ' Nagging Wife ' Cherry bother you too much, LOL. Just do the "Yes, Dear" and get on with things ... seems like it works for my buddies that are married to never-satisfied nags.

Next time I'm in Florida I'd LOVE to stop in for a workout - but would you let me do my JREPS routine in your gym, LOL ?
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Dr. Darden training Drew and putting it on tape for everyone to see. That would be amazing. We could all learn alot from that.
Drew, great video, took alot of guts to put your training on the line like that for everyone to see. Can't wait to see more.

Michael
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spud

I reckon you should leave the rest periods in as part of the video.

You won't need to do an introductory chat at the beginning again so that will save you 6 minutes.

I would just like to see the whole workout with 30-60 seconds rest between sets, unedited.
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Cherry

spud wrote:
I reckon you should leave the rest periods in as part of the video.

You won't need to do an introductory chat at the beginning again so that will save you 6 minutes.

I would just like to see the whole workout with 30-60 seconds rest between sets, unedited.


why all the talk about resting b/w sets? drew didn't look too winded to me, did i miss where he said his performance was compromised?

i think he should continue to move quickly b/w the sets. Set everything up before workout begins but take enough time to get into position and strap in properly. Unless of course he is so winded he needs the rest...

Between moving quickly or not the better workout is the quicker, all other things being equal of course.

Also, i wouldn't try to do any forced reps in this next video, just do a 'perfect' CON/ECC to traditional CON failure. Show us that level of intensity, the basic balls-to-wall traditional HIT workout.
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Tom71

Drew,

I recently downloaded the video, thanks so much for making the time and effort to do so. It's always interesting to see a person behind the posts.

I was surprised by the rep-cadence, some say to fast, but I was surprised at how slow it was without being "super-slow". Definitely slower than my own cadence, which is something to think about at least.

The breathing was another eye-opener. For some reason, I'd assumed you used a normal one breath in, one breath out, timed to the eccentric/concentric phases.

One breathing related question with regards to squats. I personally breath in at the top and hold on the eccentric and this seems to be okay, but was wondering if you thought such to be a good, bad idea or just one of personal preference. I'm currently utilizing high-rep, rep-pause squats.

Looking forward to any future videos you might decide to make. I'd especially love to see a Dr. Darden training session. If you puked after this one, maybe he can get you to pass out completely....good times :-) Closer to home, however, is that I'd like to see a free-weight only version.

And, yeah, if I ever get to Florida, I'll take you up on the offer. Never hurled or passed out from a workout, but there's a first time for everything.

Tom
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Tom71 wrote:
The breathing was another eye-opener. For some reason, I'd assumed you used a normal one breath in, one breath out, timed to the eccentric/concentric phases.

One breathing related question with regards to squats. I personally breath in at the top and hold on the eccentric and this seems to be okay, but was wondering if you thought such to be a good, bad idea or just one of personal preference. I'm currently utilizing high-rep, rep-pause squats.


Holding your breath for any period of time while exerting yourself will raise your BP drastically. Faster breathes are a good way to keep O2 intake up and BP down.

On slow reps, it's hard (and impractical) to do one full breath per rep. Now on your high-rep squats, if the reps cadence is faster than 4 seconds per total rep, you should be inhaling on the way down. As you come out of the bottom, you have a quick bit of air/CO2 expulsion at the bottom with continued release until the top.

When I'm doing a 20-rep squat set, I'll do single breaths for the first 12 reps. For the last 8, I pause at the top of each rep to take an extra breath, while still following the procedure outlined above for the rest of each rep.

Good Luck,
Scott
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rtestes

Mississippi, USA

Cherry wrote:
why all the talk about resting b/w sets? drew didn't look too winded to me, did i miss where he said his performance was compromised?

i think he should continue to move quickly b/w the sets. Set everything up before workout begins but take enough time to get into position and strap in properly. Unless of course he is so winded he needs the rest...

Also, i wouldn't try to do any forced reps in this next video, just do a 'perfect' CON/ECC to traditional CON failure. Show us that level of intensity, the basic balls-to-wall traditional HIT workout.


Well maybe I missed something along the way in my HIT education. Nobody ever said I should cut my rest to less than 10 seconds as drew did for hormones or any other reason. To see him drag his self around from machine to machine would have been humorous if you didn't know how he must have been feeling.

I feel the desire for the hormone boost denied him the proper recovery to obtain the inroads to muscle growth, so you might never see the basic balls-to-wall traditional HIT workout you envision. It is hard to fully train muscle while you run a 100 yard dash. I just wonder what 30-60 seconds rest would do for him. Would he get into the 8-12 rep range and beyond? Would he obtain a 3/3 or 4/4 cadence? Would he handle more weight? The kind of things I envision as a good HIT routine.

Now, I am not an expert, I am just a good old boy fixing to sign up for Medicare in a few months that still likes to play with the iron in an organized manner. Drew might be right, he has done a lot of study on exercise and it is his profession. But the rushing around wouldn't be in my sessions even if I was 18 years old and I would never believe it helps build muscle. That is why I question the rest time.

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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

rtestes wrote:
Well maybe I missed something along the way in my HIT education. Nobody ever said I should cut my rest to less than 10 seconds as drew did for hormones or any other reason. To see him drag his self around from machine to machine would have been humorous if you didn't know how he must have been feeling.


I found it quite humorous --- though I was laughing with him and not at him. The crippled stumble from Leg Ext to Leg Press (or visa versa) is always entertaining, even if it's me doing the stumbling.

I'm not too sure about the hormone boost either. I'll buy the fact that the aforementioned superset is very, very productive but I'm not at all convinced that I'm going to lose all HB effects by taking more than 3-5 seconds to move from one machine to the next. I always feel that if I rest about 10-15 seconds I'll get enough strength back to make the second set more worthwhile.

I know I'm not the big "study" guy, but what proof is there on the research front about only resting x seconds between sets?

Color Me Curious,
Scott
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Tom71

simon-hecubus wrote:

Holding your breath for any period of time while exerting yourself will raise your BP drastically. Faster breathes are a good way to keep O2 intake up and BP down.

On slow reps, it's hard (and impractical) to do one full breath per rep. Now on your high-rep squats, if the reps cadence is faster than 4 seconds per total rep, you should be inhaling on the way down. As you come out of the bottom, you have a quick bit of air/CO2 expulsion at the bottom with continued release until the top.

When I'm doing a 20-rep squat set, I'll do single breaths for the first 12 reps. For the last 8, I pause at the top of each rep to take an extra breath, while still following the procedure outlined above for the rest of each rep.

Good Luck,
Scott


Thanks Scott,

Yeah, what your saying makes sense to me, though I'm not sure how much of a factor the BP variable is.

The primary reason for holding the breath is based on the idea of creating a more rigid structural platform in the torso. Of course, I'm not sure if this possible benefit outweighs the potential risk.

I think I may just need to mix both up and see what works best overall.

Tom

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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Resting too long between sets allows for too much ATP replenishment. You tend to end up working with bundles of fibers that are already sacked rather than getting at new ones if you know what I mean.

The phosphate cycle takes about 25 to 35 seconds so rest breaks are bets kept below 20 seconds. Rest that is during the same set (breakdowns, rest pause etc) or super sets for the same muscle.

Regards,
Andrew
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Wolfie

Cyberpump has a nice collection of Dr. Ken training videos. Check out Doc training his son Kevin Tolbert. And Doc's wife on the leg press? Forget about it.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

It seems there is now a big debate on if drew should have moved quickly or taken a break between sets. I do not know which is better for muscular hypertrophy, but I do no what Drew is doing is much better for an athlete.
Just read an AJ article on metabolic conditioning. For an athlete this should be the only way to train. If you can push yourself full out for 10-20mins in a HIT manner then any sort of athletic competition becomes easy.
This is such a huge benefit that I can't imagine of training any other way now.

Just my thoughts.

Michael
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gmw5

New Zealand

Im a little confused about the rest periods between sets. I can understand the theory of working the same fibres if rest period is too long. But if you are performing one set per exercise - and one or two exercises per bodypart - then this obviously wouldn't matter. It makes sense if you are performing higher volume with 3-5 sets per exercise. It seems to make a huge difference on how much weight I can handle on each exercise.

For example: I am much stronger doing a chest press - if I have rested for say a minute after the previous exercise.

I would have thought that it would make sense to have full intensity on each exercise. Anyone else have this problem?
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Yes

For example: I am much stronger doing a chest press - if I have rested for say a minute after the previous exercise.

I would have thought that it would make sense to have full intensity on each exercise. Anyone else have this problem?

If you were more used to it I dont think the difference would be as big, if there is any difference at all.

I know the biggest difference for me is that I get much more exhausted after a workout when I move fast between exercises. I can handle the same weights (unless of course im doing another set of the same exercise), im just breathing alot heavier...

Drew is a bit extreme, I think, but it looks like he can handle it very well without any impact on his performance.
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Landau

Florida, USA

I finally viewed the video and it was good. Well done. I noticed the short shallow breaths early, but then I noticed Drew breathing according to need. Short - shallow breaths is a carry over from SS training and in my opinion not needed. One needs to breath according to the demands of the situation (normal, belabored, or whatever). During our workouts, we get our composure after consecutive sets say after legs, chest, and so on.

The time between is varied and not arbitrary. But we used to train non stop like Drew showed - the difference? The body adapts to it after a while and we just got done quicker by a few minutes.

I personally have NEVER vomited from any workout ever and have trained under various conditions - non stop multi set w/o's at Golds in Venice with their top trainer in the late 90s, Arthur's brutal arm routines of the early 80s, and Vince Gironda's sick routines of the 70s.

I train hard as I can personally but my body has never reacted adversly. People do react to such training on an individual basis. Some if they are not ready for the brutal intensity will get sick as hell, I never have. Drew - keep up the good work as you do practice what you preach. David
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

I've seen studies indicating greater GH response with shorter rest between sets, but I've also seen studies indicating that fatigue is not a necessary stimulus for strength gains. ("Fatigue is not a necessary stimulus for strength gains during resistance training, JP Folland, CS Irish, JC Roberts, JE Tarr, DA Jones, Br J Sports Med 2002;36:370-374).

I've been searching for more, and can not find any, including the one I had in mind when mentioning it during the video.

I will post it if or when I find it.

Whether it is beneficial or not for bodybuilding, it is definitely effective for metabolic conditioning. During periods of time when I've trained with less rest between exercises my conditioning has always been better, regardless of the protocol used, than during periods when I allowed more rest.
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

AShortt wrote:
Resting too long between sets allows for too much ATP replenishment. You tend to end up working with bundles of fibers that are already sacked rather than getting at new ones if you know what I mean.

The phosphate cycle takes about 25 to 35 seconds so rest breaks are bets kept below 20 seconds. Rest that is during the same set (breakdowns, rest pause etc) or super sets for the same muscle.

Regards,
Andrew


I knew there had to be something we all agreed on. Multiple sets or multiple exercises performed for the same muscle or muscle group should be done with little or no rest in between.

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spud

Rest between sets is never something I have measured with a stopwatch. I think that is just too extreme, I either go as fast as I possibly can through a workout or rest as long as I feel I need to, to enable me to do justice to the next exercise.

Even when I rest a little longer I shouldn't think it is ever more than 2 minutes.

One thing I do like doing, rather than doing the whole routine non-stop, is performing 2 or 3 exercises back-to-back and then having a rest for 2 minutes and then doing the next 2 exercises back-to-back and so on.

Regardless of the rest periods I use in my training I always find that I end up panting at the end of the set when the reps get really hard as otherwise I will just resort to holding my breath which is never good. I find that panting allows me to keep going that little bit longer than I thought I could.

If I attempt to breathe normally when the on the last few very hard reps I find that I can't get all the air that I need.

Having watched the video again, I would say that the reps were a little quick to start with on the leg extension, rear delt and seated row.
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