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Fast Twitch, Slow Twitch Training?
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tigon

I am trying something that is based on the fact that people have both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in the body. Some people have more of one twitch type than the other.

So the theory is that you will hit the slow twitch fibers with high reps and you will hit the fast twitch fibers with low reps.

So you do 2 sets for each muscle. One set for slow twitch and one set for fast twitch. And when you change between the two they say it is like a car switching gears...

So it looks like this:

set one: 20 reps (slow twitch)
set two: 6 to 12 reps (fast twitch)

I have tried it and it definitely gives you a different kind of feel and pump...

Has anyone else tried this?
Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Dr. Darden, what is your take on this type of training? Is it feasible?


Thanks... Tigon
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Cherry

does it matter which you do first?
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Growl

That is basically the way I train, Tigon. I love it. When I stopped growing on the one set to failure, I did this. Right now, I'm using the same weight for both sets and resting 1-2 minutes between. I continue to experiment with training frequency.
I train 3 times per week but don't always train the same muscles 3 times per week.

Jeff
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Growl

Cherry wrote:
does it matter which you do first?



I have worked the exercises in reverse order.
It just makes more sense to me to hit the higher rep set first for a nice warm-up, especially if your working with a lot of weight. I don't believe I would have been able to handle the weights I did in some exercises without the higher rep approach set.

Jeff
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tigon

Cherry,

You should do the 20 rep set first.

However, you can do the 6 to 12 rep set first as long as you have done some kind of warm up set. The fast twitch set will be a heavy set so you better be prepared for it.

During the 20 rep set you will be of course using a lesser poundage than the 6 to 12 rep set. So it will serve as a good warm up before increasing the weight for the 6 to 12 rep set.

But you can do the reverse if you want, however I wouldn't try it cold.

Hope this helps... Tigon
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Cherry

tigon wrote:
Cherry,

You should do the 20 rep set first.

However, you can do the 6 to 12 rep set first as long as you have done some kind of warm up set. The fast twitch set will be a heavy set so you better be prepared for it.

During the 20 rep set you will be of course using a lesser poundage than the 6 to 12 rep set. So it will serve as a good warm up before increasing the weight for the 6 to 12 rep set.

But you can do the reverse if you want, however I wouldn't try it cold.

Hope this helps... Tigon


are both sets to failure?
what's the cadence, how slow, how fast?
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tigon

Cherry,

I do not train to complete failure.
I just make sure I work hard and my sets are challenging.

I forgot to mention to take as little rest as possible between sets (and
no rest between sets is fine).

I never count my cadence.
However, the cadence will change from the first to the second set.

The cadence of the first set will be a faster than the second because it is a lighter poundage and you are doing higher reps. If you try to do 20 reps slow, you would feel very restricted.

So for the first set bang out 20 reps with a quick cadence, not super fast but more like getting into a flow or a groove.

Then add poundage and finish the second set with a slower/normal cadence.


Thanks... Tigon
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Law&Order

tigon wrote:
I am trying something that is based on the fact that people have both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in the body. Some people have more of one twitch type than the other.

So the theory is that you will hit the slow twitch fibers with high reps and you will hit the fast twitch fibers with low reps.

So you do 2 sets for each muscle. One set for slow twitch and one set for fast twitch. And when you change between the two they say it is like a car switching gears...

So it looks like this:

set one: 20 reps (slow twitch)
set two: 6 to 12 reps (fast twitch)

I have tried it and it definitely gives you a different kind of feel and pump...

Has anyone else tried this?
Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Dr. Darden, what is your take on this type of training? Is it feasible?

Thanks... Tigon



The following may be of some use (or not):

Type I:
1-2 > Very Low
3-5 > Very Low
6-8 > Very Low
9-13 > Low
13-15 > Decent
16-25 > Very Good
25-50 > Excellent

Type 11A:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Low
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Excellent
13-15 > Very Good
16-25 > Diminishing
25-50 > Low

Type IIB:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Decent To Good
6-8 > Excellent
9-13 > Very Good
13-15 > Decent To Good
16-25 > Low
25-50 > Very Low


Strength Gains:
1-2 > Excellent
3-5 > Excellent
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Good Within Rep Range
13-15 > Endurance
16-25 > Endurance
25-50 > Endurance



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Law&Order

Type I:
Contraction time > Slow
Size of motor neuron > Small
Resistance to fatigue > High
Activity used for Aerobic > Aerobic
Force production > Low
Mitochondrial density > High
Capillary density > High
Oxidative capacity > High
Glycolytic capacity > Low
Major storage fuel > Triglycerides

Type IIA:
Contraction time > Fast
Size of motor neuron > Large
Resistance to fatigue > Intermediate
Activity used for Aerobic > Long-term Anaerobic
Force production > High
Mitochondrial density > High
Capillary density > Intermediate
Oxidative capacity > High
Glycolytic capacity > High
Major storage fuel > CP,Glycogen


Type IIB:
Contraction time > Very Fast
Size of motor neuron > Very Large
Resistance to fatigue > Low
Activity used for Aerobic > Short-term Anaerobic
Force production > Very High
Mitochondrial density > Low
Capillary density > Low
Oxidative capacity > Low
Glycolytic capacity > High
Major storage fuel > CP,Glycogen

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Cherry

Law&Order wrote:
tigon wrote:
I am trying something that is based on the fact that people have both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in the body. Some people have more of one twitch type than the other.

So the theory is that you will hit the slow twitch fibers with high reps and you will hit the fast twitch fibers with low reps.

So you do 2 sets for each muscle. One set for slow twitch and one set for fast twitch. And when you change between the two they say it is like a car switching gears...

So it looks like this:

set one: 20 reps (slow twitch)
set two: 6 to 12 reps (fast twitch)

I have tried it and it definitely gives you a different kind of feel and pump...

Has anyone else tried this?
Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Dr. Darden, what is your take on this type of training? Is it feasible?

Thanks... Tigon


The following may be of some use (or not):

Type I:
1-2 > Very Low
3-5 > Very Low
6-8 > Very Low
9-13 > Low
13-15 > Decent
16-25 > Very Good
25-50 > Excellent

Type 11A:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Low
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Excellent
13-15 > Very Good
16-25 > Diminishing
25-50 > Low

Type IIB:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Decent To Good
6-8 > Excellent
9-13 > Very Good
13-15 > Decent To Good
16-25 > Low
25-50 > Very Low


Strength Gains:
1-2 > Excellent
3-5 > Excellent
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Good Within Rep Range
13-15 > Endurance
16-25 > Endurance
25-50 > Endurance





Wait a minute, where did you get this? Heavy weight will activate BOTH 'slow' and fast' twitch from the onset. Lighter weight will activate predominately 'slow' twitch but as FATIGUE sets in 'fast' twitch become active.

You can't preferentially recruit FAST TWITCH (to my knowledge) without first blowing out the slow twitch. If you know this to be false please give me a reference or smthg i can look at to learn more. Thanks.
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Law&Order

Cherry wrote:
Law&Order wrote:
tigon wrote:
I am trying something that is based on the fact that people have both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in the body. Some people have more of one twitch type than the other.

So the theory is that you will hit the slow twitch fibers with high reps and you will hit the fast twitch fibers with low reps.

So you do 2 sets for each muscle. One set for slow twitch and one set for fast twitch. And when you change between the two they say it is like a car switching gears...

So it looks like this:

set one: 20 reps (slow twitch)
set two: 6 to 12 reps (fast twitch)

I have tried it and it definitely gives you a different kind of feel and pump...

Has anyone else tried this?
Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Dr. Darden, what is your take on this type of training? Is it feasible?

Thanks... Tigon


The following may be of some use (or not):

Type I:
1-2 > Very Low
3-5 > Very Low
6-8 > Very Low
9-13 > Low
13-15 > Decent
16-25 > Very Good
25-50 > Excellent

Type 11A:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Low
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Excellent
13-15 > Very Good
16-25 > Diminishing
25-50 > Low

Type IIB:
1-2 > Low
3-5 > Decent To Good
6-8 > Excellent
9-13 > Very Good
13-15 > Decent To Good
16-25 > Low
25-50 > Very Low


Strength Gains:
1-2 > Excellent
3-5 > Excellent
6-8 > Good
9-13 > Good Within Rep Range
13-15 > Endurance
16-25 > Endurance
25-50 > Endurance





Wait a minute, where did you get this? Heavy weight will activate BOTH 'slow' and fast' twitch from the onset. Lighter weight will activate predominately 'slow' twitch but as FATIGUE sets in 'fast' twitch become active.

You can't preferentially recruit FAST TWITCH (to my knowledge) without first blowing out the slow twitch. If you know this to be false please give me a reference or smthg i can look at to learn more. Thanks.


No,you are correct - e.g.

Rep Range 1-2:
Type I: Very Low
Type 11A: Low
Type IIB: Low
Strength Gains: Excellent

It should have been tabled differently (context became undefinable when placed in reply box).


The above context is with regard to fiber growth potential for each respective rep range.
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Ellington Darden

Tigon,

You need to read the article on the opening page, "Truth About Fast/Slow-Twitch Muscle," especially the section toward the end . . . Ramp-Like Recruitment.

Your two sets are NOT doing what you think they are.

Ellington
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