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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

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To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Regarding Nautilus Bulletin 3
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

I just received an e-mail from John Szimanski notifying me that court papers are being filed against me in Florida. He is claiming copyright infringement because of a statement I made elsewhere on this forum.

That statement was:

"The only place I know of to get NB#3 online is from PDA, but I know someone who has photocopies of it (who doesn't want me to tell anyone he does, because he doesn't want to be pestered by people wanting copies). If I can get him to lend me a copy or photocopy it for me, I will type up the whole thing and put it online."

I would like to make it perfectly clear that I am NOT referring to a photocopy of the E-book on PDA. The photocopies I mentioned are photocopies of the originals which someone I know who used to work at Nautilus has in their files.

Also, shame on you John Szimanski for charging so much for the materials you retrieved from Arthur's storage. While I realize you invested a significant amount of time and effort helping to clear out Arthur's storage units, and more effort organizing the material and putting together the e-books, the prices you are charging for them are excessive, in my opinion and many others'.

In any case, I just got off the phone with Arthur and explained the situation and asked his permission to type up and post the bulletin 3 here on DrDarden.com and he said "do whatever you want with it".
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Growl

What did AJ say about lawyers? I'm with you Drew, shame on that man.

Jeff
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Cherry

Did Arthur sound well? What did you talk about? How does he occupy his days?
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

Cherry wrote:
Did Arthur sound well? What did you talk about? How does he occupy his days?


Arthur sounded very well. We didn't talk very long, I just explained that I had access to copies of the unpublished bulletin 3 which are in the posession of a former Nautilus employee (some of you know exactly who I'm talking about but I think he'd prefer to be left out of this so please don't mention him) and that I mentioned I might type them up and post them here, and that John Szimanski was threatening to file court papers against me as a result, probably because he misunderstood and thought I meant copies of his E-book, which is not the case.

I told Arthur that since he was the author and that it wasn't being copied from John's E-book that I thought it would be best to ask him for permission, and he said "do whatever you want with it".

I then told him I hoped he was doing well, and we hung up. He didn't seem to be in the mood to talk, and I didn't want to bother him.
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waynegr

Switzerland

With you Drew.

Wayne
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siouxcountry

Drew,

That would be great if you made bulletin 3 available to all. It seems strange that we have to pay so much for bulletin 3 even though its not nearly as valuable as 1 and 2 (which are available for free).
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

No need to pay for bulletin 3 unless you want all the rest of the stuff Szimanski packaged with it, which I don't have. Save your money for The New Bodybuilding for Old-School Results.
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eintology

California, USA

Since this is a learning environment, let this serve as a small lesson, for everyone.

Drew,

He's probably just upset you're able to make a good living for yourself and your family, without financially gouging people at every pass.

And no, I am not a communist, far from it; so there is no reason for anyone to take on the tambour of the McCarthy hearings, again. But just for fun, let me take a wild stab at it.... He was charging, what, not even close to what most anyone would consider market value?

You got permission, which is operating above board. If someone wants to press the issue, hit em' like a two ton set of bricks.

As both yourself, several others, and Dr. Darden know, no one has been lighter on most subjects on this forum than I have been. But for professional, as well as ethical reasons, this is another subject that's near and dear to my heart.

...............

Taking what is known as someone else's ('creative property') and plagiarizing it in any way, shape, or form, is amongst the lowest of the lows, and a very bad habit to get into. And that's how the legal profession sees this as well. Especially since the advent of the Internet. I am not a lawyer, but I do know that the populus created this situation, not the legal profession. You can't fault them for responding to it.

I am not just speaking for myself when asking for this: For the future, porfavore; asking nicely, do not take anything written on this forum, and drag it somewhere else, without permission of the person who wrote it. People have reasons why they write on this forum and not another, and this should be respected.

And, when referencing someone else's writing, throw it in quotes, and site the reference source. This is already taught in the fourth grade, to prevent what can ultimately lead to legal problems. Because technically, something is copywritten, as soon as it is written.

There, I'm done. See, that was easy.

Erik
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

eintology wrote:

Taking what is known as someone else's ('creative property') and plagiarizing it in any way, shape, or form, is amongst the lowest of the lows, and a very bad habit to get into. And that's how the legal profession sees this as well. Especially since the advent ot the Internet. I am not a lawyer, but I do know that the populus created this situation, not the legal profession. You can't fault them for responding to it.


Agreed. I don't believe John plagiarized Arthur's material in any way. Arthur seems not to care much what anyone does with it (I also got permission from him years ago to post bulletins 1 and 2 on baye.com, but never got around to organizing them). I'm sure John had Arthur's permission.

Since it's Arthur's writing, and since I have Arthur's permission to "do whatever" with it, I think the best thing would be to make it available for everyone online.

When I publish my own book, I'll charge for it. I'm not going to charge for simply retyping or repackaging someone else's work online since it won't cost me any more per month in web hosting (my host provides more than enough bandwidth) and I type about 80 to 90 wpm with a very low error rate, so it's not going to take a huge amount of time.
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eintology

California, USA

Drew Baye wrote:

Agreed. I don't believe John plagiarized Arthur's material in any way. Arthur seems not to care much what anyone does with it (I also got permission from him years ago to post bulletins 1 and 2 on baye.com, but never got around to organizing them). I'm sure John had Arthur's permission.

Since it's Arthur's writing, and since I have Arthur's permission to "do whatever" with it, I think the best thing would be to make it available for everyone online.


I understand. I wasn't referring to John as plagiarising the material.

I'm certain he let it be known it was someone else's work. That's entirely up to the (author) to decide if he cares, or not.

I was putting that out there as a general guideline, as I have seen some of the most egregious situations imaginable; even to a lawyer, done in the name of this subject.

Erik
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Landau

Florida, USA

JS = Imbecile
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Drew thank you very much for making this information available to us for free. If AJ says its alright then that should be the end of discussion.

I'll take your advice and wait to pay for Dr. Darden's new book.
Also you are writing a book? any sort of preview would be great. Im sure many on here would be interested in that aswell.

Michael
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John Szimanski

Drew,

We knew there was the possibility there were other copies of everything unpublished that we found and therefore we have copyrighted to protect Arthur. We had to because Arthur did not care enough to do so. Since shortly after Inge passed, his primary response regarding just about anything is, "do whatever you want." So we protect him, not just give lip service. Arthur receives a check from us our publications of his work quarterly. They are cashed by his son Edgar (William). Edgar handles the financials. Arthur has never seen a check and doesn't care about them. We have the endorsements. The only reason we are going thru our efforts is to keep Arthur's work alive as opposed to simply invoking his name gratuitously. What do you send him?

You had mentioned to me long ago that Ken Hutchins had a copy of NB3. I am sure there are others.

The same material is the same material, period. Even if it is in whole or in part, NB3 is NB3, period. You even call it by name. It doesn't matter where it is copied from. Infringement is infringement and that's why there is a law. Providing copies of Ken's would make you, him, MedX and Darden all liable. What kind of childish nonsense is this when someone asks you to break the law and you volunteer to do so by providing a copy of protected material on the basis of making a copy that someone else has? Do you really think that Ken has a copy that Arthur GAVE to him? Do you really think it is an AUTHORIZED copy? Are you not aware of the animus between Arthur and Ken? Come on. You have put Ken, Darden, T-Nation and MedX in such a deep mess, you have no idea.

And that's where we're headed. ISPs are first on the list. It is a flagrant violation, a flat out public statement of intent to infringe. Nothing could be easier to prosecute criminally and civilly. You can't make a statement with the entire world as witness of intent to break the law, including exactly how you intend to do it, and then just say, "I didn't mean it. Sorry." Everybody remotely involved will have to be pulled in. Even if it disappears, all of the records will have to be pulled to document who, what, when and where.

Arthur says "Do whatever you want" most of the time. Any adult realizes that he means "do whatever you can handle the responsibility for doing." Only a child would presume he is giving permission.

Here is an example of precisely what you propose. Darden published several "Nautilus" books. Guess what? An ex-wife has some original drafts. Do you think it is legal to make copies of those drafts and put them on the Internet? Is it okay just because they are not direct copies of a bound edition that calls out "copyright?"

As those close to him know, Arthur is going thru what we refer to as a Howard Hughes thing. The difference is that he has not lost his mind like Hughes did. Arthur simply does not care about most things. You have a lot of nerve trying to hide behind his saying "Do whatever you want." Do you wonder why he didn't seem to be in the mood to talk to you? Because he does not only not care what you do, he does not care about you at all. You are simply a trivial annoyance. A stranger could walk up to Arthur and say exactly what you said and Arthur would say, "Do whatever you want." You have that much impact on him. He was not giving you "permission" in any way, shape or form. He was telling you, "go away, you bother me."

The bottom line is, you are stealing from Arthur.

There is no misunderstanding. And, this is all the time I will devote to this issue. There is no need for me to be involved further since it is so clear cut. I am passing the ball to others to handle. I have constructive projects to work on. None involve theft.

John Szimanski
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logicbdj

Ontario, CAN

What's odd is that I copyrighted and had published Arthur's autobiography in hardcopy form (with Arthur's permission) before JS did, and yet JS later came out with his softcover version of the autobiography.

Of course, JS knew of the Arthur Jones Collection (which contains the autobiography) at the time as he encouraged people not to buy it, and to buy the biography that he wrote about Arthur instead (I don't recall the name of the book, but something like Loose Women, Fat Planes, and a Whole Lot of Things that Arthur Claims Never Happened).
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Erik,

Do you have anything urbane, or even inane, to comment on John S's post?

Scott
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

John,

The very simple facts of the matter are Arthur owns the copyrights, I told Arthur exactly what I planned to do, I asked his permission, and he gave it. You have no grounds for a suit of any kind against me or anyone else, so you might as well save your threats.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that someone who makes knock off's of other people's designs (Al Gerard's Trap Bar and The Formulator) would be accusing others of "theft"?
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Growl

Yeah Erik,
If that's your real name. And none of this "I'm not a cummunist" stuff either. Your the first I want investigated and brought before.....whoever handles this stuff.
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Growl

logicbdj wrote:
What's odd is that I copyrighted and had published Arthur's autobiography in hardcopy form (with Arthur's permission) before JS did, and yet JS later came out with his softcover version of the autobiography.

Of course, JS knew of the Arthur Jones Collection (which contains the autobiography) at the time as he encouraged people not to buy it, and to buy the biography that he wrote about Arthur instead (I don't recall the name of the book, but something like Loose Women, Fat Planes, and a Whole Lot of Things that Arthur Claims Never Happened).


I guess AJ said to JS "Do whatever you want" i.e. "go away, you bother me".

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henry_bordeaux

Dr. Darden,

in the AJ Revisited section you published parts of Arthurs Autobiography "...And God Laughs.". Did you have to ask Arthur for permission before putting it on your website, or Brian, or John, or all of them?


regards,

Henry
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eintology

California, USA

Hi Scott,

First of all, I should probably let you know that I have a medical grade scale; for pinpoint accuracy, prepared to go into an elevator, right now, as I am currently doing some research on fast reps. I have a blonde wig on top of it, so people will think it's nothing more than Donald Trump going to a routine day at the office. Scott, cut me some slack! I am trying to prove Einstein's theory. Albert Einstein 1879 - 1955.

Secondly, I don't really appreciate Logic insinuating my girlfriend is loose, at least not in book title form. Everyone has a past, and hers was just a little more lascivious than others. I have broken her like a wild filly.

Thirdly, I support John S's moral argument, but a court won't ultimately see it that way. And I say this because the author, in this case Arthur Jones, released the rights in the form of a verbal contract, and it was apparently not done under any form of duress. "Doesn't want to be bothered" will not be considered equal duress.

And apparently, Arthur Jones has done this with others as well. You can't force him to care, which is also considered infringement on a legally bound contract. And it's still Arthur Jones who legally has control. How is John S going to prove Arthur Jones is doing little more than emulating Howard Hughes, even if it's true?

If Dr. Darden, who worked with the man for how many years say's NB3 is of little value? Then that -- little value, as far as I am concerned, is the market value. But then I am not the type of person that collects memorabilia, so certainly the value is whatever someone is willing to pay. But then I also have the right to judge that as exploitation, which I have.

I would love to see the dollar amount of the royalty check Arthur Jones receives for NB3. This is not "The Black Dahlia" we are talking about here, it's Nautilus Bulletin 3.

Erik

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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

Bulletin 3 is nothing to get excited over. Like Dr. Darden said elsewhere, there is nothing special about it, and there is a reason it was unpublished. My reason for wanting to make it available was more for historical interest than anything else.

If you want to know what Arthur wrote about in Bulletin 3, all you have to do is buy a used copy of Total Fitness: The Nautilus Way on half.com. It contains all of Arthur's Athletic Journal articles, which cover all the information on Bulletin 3 and then some. If anything, Bulletin 3 seems like a rough draft for the Athletic Journal articles.

There are currently several copies for under $3.00 on half.com and alibris.com, and for a little more on bookfinder.com. If you really want to read it, read it there.

If anybody should be getting excited over anything, it should be The New Bodybuilding for Old School Results.
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Robert Francis

New York, USA

John Szimanski wrote:
Drew,



As those close to him know, Arthur is going thru what we refer to as a Howard Hughes thing. The difference is that he has not lost his mind like Hughes did. Arthur simply does not care about most things. You have a lot of nerve trying to hide behind his saying "Do whatever you want." Do you wonder why he didn't seem to be in the mood to talk to you? Because he does not only not care what you do, he does not care about you at all. You are simply a trivial annoyance. A stranger could walk up to Arthur and say exactly what you said and Arthur would say, "Do whatever you want." You have that much impact on him. He was not giving you "permission" in any way, shape or form. He was telling you, "go away, you bother me."


John Szimanski


This is a very disconcerting set of affairs.
Mr. Baye, Mr. Landau, myself and several others were all present in August 2005 at Arthur's home and it did not occur to me that Arthur viewed Baye as a trivial annoyance. In fact, their conversation was really very insightful and Arthur seemed to enjoy it-certainly considering his recent sadness.
Insofar as "same material," I guess we don't know if the material Drew has is identical to what J.S. is in possession of.
Arthur has stated more than once in my presence, after being asked by others that emphatically he "has recieved nothing from Szimanski but a book."
Checks cashed by Edgar?
I dunno. Maybe.
Maybe.

zand.
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k38wood

Wow! "legal proceedings"!

before I first went to Cincinnati
in 1972 there was an awesome fight
in a biker bar way out on Vine Street
...they still talk about it today. It seems this one-legged man got into a
fist fight with a midget...well, it seems some of the guys tried to break it up...well, it seems that another
group of guys took on those guys
because they wanted to see who was going to win the first fight(I remember
that the midget's name was Lester Warfield)... well, it was a veritable
"pier six brawl" with Lester Warfield and his biker friends finally retreating across Vine to the Klondike Inn...
eventually shots were fired back and forth across Vine Street...and sadly
Lester was shot in the mouth(I don't
know whatever happened to him after that...poor little guy),

One of the good things about law-suits
is that contracts get placed in the
public record. This one could be interesting.
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kevindill

Maryland, USA

Having previously purchased one of the E-books in question, I can say that from a training info POV, there is nothing new. The photos of Viator and the colorado experiment stuff are what makes this piece interesting, not the bulletin If you want an E-book with some useful Information get the HIT FAQ.

Regards
Kevin
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JimBryan

Florida, USA

Arthur, depending on who he is talking to, has less than flattering things
to say about several here. The Old Crew understands this. Depending on his mood he either doesn't remember you being there or he remembers something you may have done that pissed him off. This is not hearsay. I'm sure he may have said something about me to someone else that was visiting him.

This doesn't
change the way I feel about him because I understand how things were and are. He does like seeing some of the old gang but is tired of talking to the new crew. He doesn't really give a damn anymore. I have seen the NB3 and feel it is a valuable addition to NB 1&2. All this stuff is pretty personal to the Old Crew and all I want is for Arthur to be remembered. This was and is a time to be remembered. I am grateful to have had the privilege to actually have been there.
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