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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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aikidoka

Is it just my imagination or does having the knees spread out and down to the floor and the bottom of the feet against each other, very effectively remove the hip flexors from the movement?

Also, would getting an abmat add to the effectiveness of this movment?
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

aikidoka wrote:
Is it just my imagination or does having the knees spread out and down to the floor and the bottom of the feet against each other, very effectively remove the hip flexors from the movement?

Also, would getting an abmat add to the effectiveness of this movment?


Why would you want to remove the hip flexors from activating?

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aikidoka

Dont the hip flexors activating reduce loading/isolation of the stomach muscles?
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

aikidoka wrote:
Dont the hip flexors activating reduce loading/isolation of the stomach muscles?


I think that is a commonly held belief of certain Personal Training Groups, but actually the activation of the hip flexors, neurally facilitates the abs, much like activation of the forearm flexors, potentiate the flexion of the elbow (biceps) in arm curls.

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Paul25

Yes,
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marcrph

Portugal

BIO-FORCE wrote:
aikidoka wrote:
Dont the hip flexors activating reduce loading/isolation of the stomach muscles?

I think that is a commonly held belief of certain Personal Training Groups, but actually the activation of the hip flexors, neurally facilitates the abs, much like activation of the forearm flexors, potentiate the flexion of the elbow (biceps) in arm curls.



BIO-FORCE is correct!
Much misinformation about hip flexion abounds. The supposed reason(s) to keep hip flexors out of abdominal movements is to possibly eliminate the psoas muscle from activating, pulling on the lower spine area-leading to back pain.
This I believe is false reasoning. By minimizing the hip flexion, neural input to the abdominal muscles is decreased.

Rather the psoas muscles should be stretched. This can be done with lunges, as one rotates the upper body away from the forward foot placement all the time keeping a position of maintaining a stabilized spine.
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eintology

California, USA

BIO-FORCE wrote:
aikidoka wrote:
Dont the hip flexors activating reduce loading/isolation of the stomach muscles?

I think that is a commonly held belief of certain Personal Training Groups, but actually the activation of the hip flexors, neurally facilitates the abs, much like activation of the forearm flexors, potentiate the flexion of the elbow (biceps) in arm curls.


John,

I've got to get this in quick, before Cherry arrives on the scene to tell you, that you need to be strapped and bolted into a machine to properly tax the abdominal's. (just razzin you Cherry)

Is this issue of psoas hip flexor activation more crucial to sport performance and movement arts activities, or does it affect the actual appearance of the muscle itself in any way (development), when activated, or deactivated as part of training? Or both performance and appearance?

For cosmetic purposes, it seems as though where a person deposits fat is hyper critical (and if it's the abs your boned) but I was wondering if there is an activation difference that goes toward the muscles themselves, that would actually translate to muscle appearance in a significant way.

Part of the reason I ask is because I've seen in the past that Pavel and others sells these special AB exercise devices, but I can't really tell by looking at them whether it adds, or subtracts from the exercise.

What is one supposed to be looking for with some of these AB apparatus, weight machines, or any mat type exercise, relegated to the abs?

Thanks in advance,

Erik











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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

eintology wrote:

John,

I've got to get this in quick, before Cherry arrives on the scene to tell you, that you need to be strapped and bolted into a machine to properly tax the abdominal's. (just razzin you Cherry)

Is this issue of psoas hip flexor activation more crucial to sport performance and movement arts activities, or does it affect the actual appearance of the muscle itself in any way (development), when activated, or deactivated as part of training? Or both performance and appearance?

For cosmetic purposes, it seems as though where a person deposits fat is hyper critical (and if it's the abs your boned) but I was wondering if there is an activation difference that goes toward the muscles themselves, that would actually translate to muscle appearance in a significant way.

Part of the reason I ask is because I've seen in the past that Pavel and others sells these special AB exercise devices, but I can't really tell by looking at them whether it adds, or subtracts from the exercise.

What is one supposed to be looking for with some of these AB apparatus, weight machines, or any mat type exercise, relegated to the abs?

Thanks in advance,

Erik



Hi Erik,

Hip Flexor activation simply helps the abdominal complex to activate. No appearance differences, but my point was, WHY? focus on taking them out when they facilitate, and don't reduce the effectiveness.

And regarding Lumbar issues. The Psoas when activated and conditioned "protects" the lumbar discs from anterior compression which is a dangerous element to spinal flexion.
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eintology

California, USA

BIO-FORCE wrote:

Hi Erik,

Hip Flexor activation simply helps the abdominal complex to activate. No appearance differences, but my point was, WHY? focus on taking them out when they facilitate, and don't reduce the effectiveness.

And regarding Lumbar issues. The Psoas when activated and conditioned "protects" the lumbar discs from anterior compression which is a dangerous element to spinal flexion.


Say hey John,

It's good to see you are doing well, and thriving.

Obviously, I don't have much aptitude for engineering/mechanical type issues, but I certainly respect those who do, and I've found your posts relating to some of these topics interesting, and informative; as it's generally quite difficult for me to find this type of information accessible, or really even palatable for that matter.

I think you have a real gift for articulating this type of information.

John, again, I asked this question in part for myself, and also because I think this is the type of question the general public would ask, given the flood of choices out there.

And, as I was kind of hinting at with Marc; with the core thread recently, at some point I think people need to point and go.

For similar reasons, I thought the free weight machine discussion was ultimately a very good one.

People in the exercise field are not going to see it the same, as people who are not, and "we" need to be sensitized to that. The goals alter the outlook.

When you look at the original question, for example ... ab mat. These are the types of things a lot of people want to know about to make informed choices.

I completely understand what Skyler was saying a few weeks ago when he said somethig like, ('give me heavy deadlifts and chins and I'll have abs'.) But most people are not training "hard core" like this, as they don't have the same level of knowledge, or really the same type of focus as someone like he would have.

I guess I was curious to see if there is a way to slightly bridge the apparent gap between High Intensity as ('we') know it, and the market that currently exists. Which to me, is slightly more of an instant gratification, less effort whenever possible type societal market. Especially when it comes to a "commercial body part" like the abs have become.

Erik










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manzo

I have found when performing weighted crunches on the floor or when using the nautilus abdominal machine that i really feel it more it my abdominals when i push my lower back into the floor/back pad at the beginning of each rep.

You will not move a big distance this way (the abdominals dont have a big ROM) but you really work the abdominals, moreso than when not pushing your lower back into the floor/back pad.
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