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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Who's The Greatest Ever?
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bobbyandtara

Florida, USA

listening to the old timers and the HIT disciples. The wanna bees, the bb, the athelte, you run across alot of opinions concerning the greatest bb ever.

Of course we have Arnold, Yates, Ronnie Coleman, Steve Reeves, Bill Pearl, Lee Haney, etc.....

lets get real-Bill Pearl, Steve Reeves, John Grimek, and all of the old timers, while being pillars and founding fathers.....Could in no way stand toe to toe with Arnold, Olivia, Mentzer, Viator, etc....

Moving forward-Mentzer, Viator, Olivia, and yes even Arnold (weak legs) could not stand toe to toe against......Yates, Coleman, Haney, etc...

The big debate-

Yates vs. Coleman
Yates brought high intensity, heavy weights, and intelligence to the sport.

Coleman brought super strength, downright freaky mass, etc... to a new level.
Yates defeated Coleman in the big show but Coleman got even bigger and better. So some would say at 296 lb competition weight Coleman would beat Yates, but if it wasn't for injuries, who's to say Yates wouln't have hit 300 lbs in competition as well, if not more. Taking that into consideration, here is my top 10 bb of all time. (yes i have taken the new level of bb into major consideration)

1-Dorian Yates
2-Ronnie Coleman
3-Sergio Olivia
4-Casey Viator
5-Jay Cutler
6-Arnold
7-Lee Haney
8-Mike Mentzer
9-Flex Wheeler
10-Kevin Levrone/Rich Gaspari

Best bodyparts
Chest-Arnold
Back-Yates
arms-Coleman Forearms-Viator
shoulders-Cutler
calves-yates
legs-Tom Platz

Best contest condition-yates
Best vascularity-Rich Gaspari
Most massive-Coleman
Most classic/symetrical-Serge Nubret
Toughest workouts-yates

Just my opinion
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ryansergent

Kansas, USA

I remember Yates, being coached by Mentzer would not do just one set because, as he put it,' we don't live in a perfect world".

Man that's too bad, had he listened he could have really been a champian!

Ryan
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bdog

For me it's between Arnold and Sergio.
If Haney had bigger arms he might be better than both of them.
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bobbyandtara

Florida, USA

ryansergent wrote:
I remember Yates, being coached by Mentzer would not do just one set because, as he put it,' we don't live in a perfect world".

Man that's too bad, had he listened he could have really been a champian!

Ryan


Umm, Dorian Yates won the Mr. O 6 times in a row. A great champion by all means
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Crotalus

I think all the guys you mentioned are great but there are a few more you didn't list that I really liked ; Franco Columbo, Frank Zane, and Mohamed Makowy who was a small guy but I think his symmetry was terrific.

I saw him in the Olympia where it was Haney's first win and think both Makowy and Gaspari should have placed higher. Watching Makowy's posing routine that night was the first time I ever saw a posing routine I didn't think looked goofy. He posed to a classical piece of music and I thought it was way ahead of any 'physique presentation' I ever saw , before or since.

What I liked about guys like Franco and Viator was not only did they look good, they were incredibly strong.

Even though "bodybuilders" aren't Dr.Ken's favorite group of people, I think I could see Franco hanging with Dr.Ken's and friend's at his garage gym, rolling frying pans, lifting anvils and scaring the neighbors just for the hell of it.

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bobbyandtara

Florida, USA

bdog wrote:
For me it's between Arnold and Sergio.
If Haney had bigger arms he might be better than both of them.


Right, have Lee, Arnold, Sergio stand next to Ronnie Coleman. It would be a slaughter.
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bdog

bobbyandtara wrote:
bdog wrote:
For me it's between Arnold and Sergio.
If Haney had bigger arms he might be better than both of them.

Right, have Lee, Arnold, Sergio stand next to Ronnie Coleman. It would be a slaughter.


Ronnie Coleman and all of the drug crazed bodybuilders of today look like shit. At least the guys I mentioned have real muscle.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

There is still something about Arnolds physique that puts him above others of the time. He just had the look.

As for todays monsters. Ronnie at 286 was unbeatable. Cutler wouldn't have ever beat Ronnie if he would have been able to duplicate his condition at 286 and Dorian wouldn't have even competed against it.

Just my opinion

Michael
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BloodandGuts

bigmikep wrote:
There is still something about Arnolds physique that puts him above others of the time. He just had the look.

As for todays monsters. Ronnie at 286 was unbeatable. Cutler wouldn't have ever beat Ronnie if he would have been able to duplicate his condition at 286 and Dorian wouldn't have even competed against it.

Just my opinion

Michael

Agreed, Arnold had "something" that no one else had!

IMO Ronnie lever looked better than he did when he won the Arnold classic. I think he was about 245lbs and his conditioning was far superior to his more recent years.

no one can say for sure where Yates would have taken his physique if not for his injuries. i certainly would NEVER count him out regardless of who he was competing against!

B&G
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HamsFitness

Arnold looked as natural( I dont mean drug free) as you can get at that size, it suited him, his face and his personality. It didnt look weird or wow, it just looked "right" on him, I think only steve reeves and a handfull ofothers had that same "it just looks right" aspect
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Butters

bobbyandtara wrote:
Right, have Lee, Arnold, Sergio stand next to Ronnie Coleman. It would be a slaughter.


You can't really rightfully compare BBers from different eras. Based on today's criteria of course Zane would have been too small and Arnold to an extent. With larger legs he might have held his own.

Ronnie would have been to freakish and out of proportion to have done well in the 70s. Although Reeves could have been competitive in the 70s with his physique.

Like people said above, even though Arnold's bi's and chest were over developed to his legs, there is something about it that worked. His personality just made you think he was a champion. Too bad for a pesky Article II or we could have President Schwarzenegger.
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ron33

Don't forget guy's like, Ray Mentzer,Matt Mendenhall,Robby Robinson ,Pete Grymkowski etc. that did'nt win the O' because of politics or what have you.These guy's looked like they could use their massive muscle for something besides just standing there.

For all the Arnie fans read what Ric Drasin say's. Even though he considers Arnie a great guy and friend "He really is a Girly Man"He once saw Arnie and another BBer get into a scuffle and they scratched each other like little girls.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

bobbyandtara wrote:
Right, have Lee, Arnold, Sergio stand next to Ronnie Coleman. It would be a slaughter.


It would be a slaughter IF the only judging criteria was who had the most obnoxious amounts of muscle.

If it came down to asthetics, Coleman would be 4th on every judge's scorecard.
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BloodandGuts

Butters wrote:
Like people said above, even though Arnold's bi's and chest were over developed to his legs, there is something about it that worked. His personality just made you think he was a champion. Too bad for a pesky Article II or we could have President Schwarzenegger.



that reminds me, I'd better thank god for "Article II" tomorrow at Easter dinner!
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spud

Frank Zane vs Ronnie Coleman for me is no contest. Frank Zane is much better. Coleman is bigger yes, but compared with Frank, his physique is just ugly and bloated.
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bdog

spud wrote:
Frank Zane vs Ronnie Coleman for me is no contest. Frank Zane is much better. Coleman is bigger yes, but compared with Frank, his physique is just ugly and bloated.



Bloated. Yeah that's the key word.
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Big Tav

I hate Zane's body. I think he is the most over rated ever. Sure he looked good and better than most but when it comes to the Pro ranks I can't believe he was ever Mr O.

BTW I think Flex Wheeler was near perfect.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Flex Wheeler had unbelievable shape. Narrow joints and waist, coupled with lots o muscle. He looked like an X. So he gets me vote.

Haney was all Torso. Never did like his build. Franco was unbelievable looking in my view. And super strong to boot.

But really...I used to follow bodybuilding, but now view the "sport" as a silly drug-fueled freak show.

I'm much more impressed with the "average Joe" who builds a strong, healthy physique without drugs, while overcoming average or below average genetics.
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Crotalus


But really...I used to follow bodybuilding, but now view the "sport" as a silly drug-fueled freak show.

I'm much more impressed with the "average Joe" who builds a strong, healthy physique without drugs, while overcoming average or below average genetics.


- I agree with freak show part .. but BB was always a freak show ... it's just extreme now.

- I can not get "inspired" with any 'average Joe' trainer. I respect all of us for training, seeking improvement, dedication, etc but I can't be inspired by someone who looks the same or a little better than I do.

I want to think and see freaks ; levels that we could never achieve. The mind /muscle connection : when you do curls do you picture biceps like Robby Robinsons or a guy in your gym with 15 inch arms ?

Can you imagine the Strongman Competition made up of 'Average Joe's ' .... sorry ... I'll watch Mariusz Pudzianowski carrying anvils rather than Bob Smith competing in a water ballon race.

Suppose Darden's book " High Intensity Bodybuilding" was illustrated by pics of "average Joe's" and how many copies would would have sold or inspired us to try this HIT ?

That book was my ticket to HIT - the descriptions Darden wrote of Oliva and Viator's workouts along with those great shots of freaks like Tom Platz is what sold it and turned on many to HIT.

If he used pics of guys curling 60 lbs I'd have but the book back on the shelf in two seconds. Instead, he opened the book with that killer image of Tom Platz doing negative only Press Behind the Neck with 315 lbs.

And today, I STILL look at that picture and description of that workout, and get 'up' for my own workouts ... even though we've all learned in the last week that getting 'up' for a workout is a no-no and a sign of weakness, LOL. .
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Yes the steroid freaks are much more visually "impressive" than "average Joe's." But the average Joes have much more impressive character in my view. I prefer substance over style.

BTW - I believe the guy in TNHIT (used to demonstrate the exercises) is a drug-free "average Joe" who's built an impressive physique, and is also involved in martial arts. He's no Tom Platz, but then who is?
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kurtvf

Butters wrote:
Too bad for a pesky Article II or we could have President Schwarzenegger.


Scary thought, almost as scary as President Hillary.

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tc16

Aren't they looking to change that law, then there would be a President Schwarzenneger, that is pretty funny or scary depending on what way you look at it.
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Ciccio

coachjeff wrote:
Yes the steroid freaks are much more visually "impressive" than "average Joe's." But the average Joes have much more impressive character in my view. I prefer substance over style.

BTW - I believe the guy in TNHIT (used to demonstrate the exercises) is a drug-free "average Joe" who's built an impressive physique, and is also involved in martial arts. He's no Tom Platz, but then who is?


Actually, even if Andy McCutcheon is no mass monster by any means, very few are cabable of keeping such a ripped physique (BF% from 3-6 or so) year round.
There are many meanings to above/below average, not just muscle.

To come back to the topic:
The Myth in that victory-pose is unbeatable!

Franco


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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Big Tav wrote:
I hate Zane's body. I think he is the most over rated ever. Sure he looked good and better than most but when it comes to the Pro ranks I can't believe he was ever Mr O.


To me he was IT, not a sideshow but the real deal. Fit - strong/fast looking like a true bodybuilding champion. I never really liked that over juiced, pumped up cartoonish look whatsoever.

Those guys notoriously look bad in the off season. They do not represent real physical culture. They appear to have given up total symmetry, proportion and such for size. Size does not in and of itself produce great architecture. Furthermore bodybuilding should be equally as much about posing as size to best display ones physique which Zane had down to a science.

Regards,
Andrew
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Rich Fitter

New Jersey, USA

Given the amount of pharmaceuticals in the sport today and the increase over the last 35 years, it is unfair to judge one era against another. Had the drugs and knowledge been available 50 years ago who's to say Reeves wouldn't have been perfect at 260 ripped?

That being said I am still blown away by the pics of Oliva in 1972, Viator in 1971, Zane in 1979 and Makkawy in 1984 (I was there and still think he should have won-no dis to Lee)
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