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Steroids
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

I just watched the Cutler shopping video, and one of the related links was titled steroids.

I have never seen this take on the subject.

http://www.dailymotion.com/...kvz7_steroids/1

Watch the video, and see what you think. I would like some discussion on the subject. Im not looking for someone to just say they are bad because they have been told that for so many years, but perhaps others on thie boared of personal experience or can shed more light on the subject.

Michael
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hdlifter

Ok, having been a gym instructor and around that type of stuff for a number of years, here is my take.

Two 'abusers' I've known. One got very heavy very fast, his left nipple was swollen and hung down, lactating at the most inconvenient time. Last I heard he had his nipples cut open, to the tune of several hundred dollars, and look far less impressive than when he was natural. Still, he was talking of injecting HGH into his belly-button. Some people never learn.

Another went from a beach body to mass monster within a year. His head looked like a beachball, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy! From what I know, he did as my other friend was contemplating - HGH into his bellybutton - he was a big fish around here, in a small pond, but disappeared after his jail time for drug pushing.

Lastly, a real shocker, one guy was into the habit of injecting insulin after his workouts, then driving home to eat. One day he got stuck in traffic and died at the wheel of his car in front of his girlfriend! He was 26 if I recall, his body went into shock throwing his heart out of rhythm.

On another note, I met Sonny Schmidt late 90's. Great guy, he even shared his lunch with me while training for the Masters Mr. Olympia. Look at what fate had in store for him - brain cancer - all those risks for what? A trophy, fleeting fame, and a small amount of money. You do the math!
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Paul Marsland

HD, a couple of points.

HGH, is not injected into the belly button but under the skin, it is most commonly injected into the area around the navel area but not directly into your belly button.

The guy who took insulin post workout was obviously a fool, as anyone who takes insulin will tell you that you have to make sure you have source of simple carbohydrates
available to take if and when required.

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the_iron_goose

Awwwwww, some guys just have all the luck, I've been around the stuff for years as well and haven't once seen a nipple like that - at least not on a male.
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the_iron_goose

I think it's because I've been aware of Arthur Jones' ideas and have been spending less time in the gym.

See you wind up missing out. And then I have to spend more money to go to strip clubs to pay for what I could be getting for free.

HIT doesn't work in that way.
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Crotalus

hdlifter wrote:


Two 'abusers' I've known.

- One got very heavy very fast,

- Another went from a beach body to mass monster within a year. His head looked like a beachball,

- Look at what fate had in store - brain cancer


-- ------

I'd say these 'results' from it is as extreme as saying if you knew guys who did squats and deadlifts and now have bad knees and destroyed lower backs. No doubt, there are some guys who have that damage from bouncing in and out of squats and slamming and jerking DL's. And you also have the guys who have bitch tits and blood pressure through the roof due to reckless steroid use.

Who attributed his brain cancer to steroids ? That just sounds ridiculous - like that obese baseball player who died from ephedrine use - but also had heart disease in his family for generations.

I've known of a couple guys using them over the years, but not personally. Both competed a little and when on the stuff they looked much better in that they got really lean without losing their muscle size. When they didn't have any 'help', they'd shrink quite a bit. I guess whatever they used it wasn't 'Industrial Strength' as they never seemed to get bigger , just did not lose it when they dieted away the fat.

The only two guys in my gym that I'm 99% sure are using something are both state cops. I'd love to ask them but I know I'd soon be getting traffic tickets out the ass ... LOL

I just don't think this is as bad as it's been made out to be - unless taken to extremes which no doubt all the Pro BB's are doing .... and that is what gets the press.

Tell you the truth, I'm surprised they had the balls to air that report.

Usually when see a newsperson or hear news, Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry" automatically starts playing in my head .....



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mentzerfan

Paul Marsland wrote:
HD, a couple of points.

HGH, is not injected into the belly button but under the skin, it is most commonly injected into the area around the navel area but not directly into your belly button.

The guy who took insulin post workout was obviously a fool, as anyone who takes insulin will tell you that you have to make sure you have source of simple carbohydrates
available to take if and when required.



Paul

Does HGH help you get through the walksort quicker and get back to your frame?!

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hdlifter

I forgot to ad, Sonny was very open and when I was allowed to look inside his fridge at the gym there were a vast array of bottles, guaranteed not to be multi vitamins and minerals. It doesn't take a genuis to work out that the vast quantities of gear the champs use to compete against others of likewise genetic potential to gain the edge, edges towards the "abuser" range.

Note the terminology I used above about the two guys I knew; "abusers". There are users and abusers, and like most things in life, abuse leads to consequences, it comes at a price... side effects... your health... death!
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gmlongo

Connecticut, USA

Man, they could have picked a better spokesman for steroids. If he has been using for that many years, he is doing something wrong.
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Paul Marsland

Paul

Does HGH help you get through the walksort quicker and get back to your frame?!


Sorry, but what are you going on about? Are you referring to the postal service and is this meant to be some sort of sarcastic joke?
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Dave Price

New Jersey, USA

Well in all honesty any one that takes steroids or any drug to build muscle is a fool. Building muscle naturally is much more of a achievement then if done with drugs. Not to forget that you will appreciate knowing that if you build your body without drugs you have more to be proud of.

Forget drugs to build muscle its a joke and natural is the way it should be done. O yea if you guys want to talk about steroids go to another web site ok cause with H.I.T training there are no drugs..

Dave Price
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NewYorker

New York, USA

You might have a difficult time getting the info you desire from this board. People may be anxious considering they are illegal.

Anyhow, you might want to do a web search on "Anthony D` Arezzo" or "Dave Polumbo".

Good luck.

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ron33

We used to have a big steroid dealer in my town, he tried to act like he was connected and was a prick to anyone who would let him try to play his game on them.

He used to go to mexico to get his stuff and sold it to teenagers that were baffled by his B.S.. The guy was about 270-280 had a real deep voice and real bad acne, his Buds said he could'nt get it up anymore and was taking female hormones.

Eventually the dude was busted and told on his gambling baseball buddy, now when you see the guy he talks with a high pitched voice like a girl and looks like he never lifted a weight in his life.
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tc16

I think the trouble is that they do 'undeniably' work, everyone knows it and the results are clear. I think it's interesting that when an autopsy is done that there is no reason that a heart attack would be linked to steroids, which it wouldnt be. But, everyone knows the famous people that have had triple by-passes etc. the dangers are there, but so is smoking, drinking etc, its a risk.

Apparently in the UK 25% of people in the gym are on steroids, that to me is probably an underestimation, ive seen guys walk in a gym skinny as hell and in 3 months be twice the size of me, thankfully ive never been tempted especially seeing that video, I dont think I could inject myself with anything.

Some people can do it and be fine but I was talking to a guy I went to school with and he was doing steroids, got massive up to 220lb and was doing rediculously heavy weights, now he weighs 150lb and all his joints are shot. For me its not worth the risk no matter how tempting.
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hdlifter

That is another crucial point, the loads on the joints and tendons don't keep in step with the strength gains when one is using. Look at the array of champs who've torn a muscle from such a one-sided situation. Here's a few that come to mind...

* Tom Platz -- left bicep.

* Kevin Levrone -- right pec.

* Ritchie Gaspari -- right pec.

* Francis Benfatto -- right bicep, right pec.

* Ronnie Coleman -- right lat.

* Dorian Yates -- just about everything!

Even Sylvestor Stallone -- right pec.

Now campare this to the champs of old, who used less and suffered less, if any injuries. Hmm...
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medici

Spain

The news show pointed to reasserts commentary offered on an ESPN program concerning baseball a few years back. In fact, from the perspective of the history of ideas, journalists and Congress holding trials over steroids is akin to the William Randolf Hearst campaign against marijuana in the 1930s.

Any scientist telling the truth was chastized and blacklisted by members of Congress over weed back then. Hysteria and grandstanding are apparently of great interest than is the voice of impartial scientific data.

What's ironic is that steroid and bio-identical natural hormone replacement therapies for andropause carry little currency in the States while menopause gains tremendous press. As we age, hormone replacement therapies seem very appropriate. Check out a lengthy paper on this topic at www.lef.org, the Life Extension Foundation site - you'll have to do a search on that site.

I find nothing disagreeable about the news report: it's telling the truth. BTW, I'm not a steroid user.

In this matter, I think the notion of performance enhancement has to be separated entirely from all the nonsense about steroids causing health problems. And in what amount?

It's unfortunate that journalists, often like academics, think they have unbounded freedom of speech without the slightest amount of responsibility and accountability accompanying that freedom. Freedom without responsibility is simply anarchy or verbal diarhea.

Just look at fools such as Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly to comprehend the amount of damage a 'free press' devoid of corresponding accountability and responsibilty can reak as havoc and misinformation.

I feel that the pro bodybuilding contests should be sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. And that what and how much to what schedule the big boys are taking should be published. As well as any health issues which might emerge. Then it would all be out in the open. Let's call Mr Olympia by a new name: Mr.Pharmacopia!

Meanwhile the first weekend of May approaches, so here in Austin, Texas that champion of drug-free natural bodybuilding Dave Goodin will be holding his 10th annual Texas shredder Pro/Am bodybuilding championships for men and women - all drug-free, many of the winners in their forties and fifties.

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NewYorker

New York, USA

kayo wrote:
I feel that the pro bodybuilding contests should be sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. And that what and how much to what schedule the big boys are taking should be published. As well as any health issues which might emerge. Then it would all be out in the open. Let's call Mr Olympia by a new name: Mr.Pharmacopia!



Yes, and instead of training videos and pictures of them gobbling protein bars, shakes, megadoses of vitamins, minerals and other useless crap they should show real training videos.

These videos would include mixing and preparing drugs and shooting up.

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Tomislav

New York, USA

kayo wrote:
The news show pointed to reasserts commentary offered on an ESPN program concerning baseball a few years back. In fact, from the perspective of the history of ideas, journalists and Congress holding trials over steroids is akin to the William Randolf Hearst campaign against marijuana in the 1930s.

Any scientist telling the truth was chastized and blacklisted by members of Congress over weed back then. Hysteria and grandstanding are apparently of great interest than is the voice of impartial scientific data.

What's ironic is that steroid and bio-identical natural hormone replacement therapies for andropause carry little currency in the States while menopause gains tremendous press. As we age, hormone replacement therapies seem very appropriate. Check out a lengthy paper on this topic at www.lef.org, the Life Extension Foundation site - you'll have to do a search on that site.

I find nothing disagreeable about the news report: it's telling the truth. BTW, I'm not a steroid user.

Hi Kayo,

Agree with you about the report, but I think there's more complexity in the model now - think lobbyists and special interest groups gained and used a lot of leverage to influence related activities such as the Ephedra and pro-hormone bans, directly as a result of the antics of Balco labs and others over the tissue building drugs.

While bodybuilders and strength athletes are pretty open about using the drugs, pro and olympic athletes have to live in a world of lies and deceit - not just taking the tissue building drugs, but lying about taking the drugs, taking drugs to hide the drugs and designer drugs that can't be detected in the tests.

Balco has taken this to the next level; as the premiere producer of undetectable steroids they first lead the media (and congress by proxy) through a circus involving olympic icons such as Jones and Montgomery and professional ballplayers.

Wild allegations were made by people who very well knew better (like Victor) regarding pro-hormones acting like Dianabol, Ephedra being deadly and even linked to the mysterious death of a ball player who was quite possibly taking Balcos undetectable tissue building drugs as they were undetectable; certainly, special interest groups used these antics and the beliefs cultivated to help precipitate the Ephedra and pro-hormone bans.

Once all that was in motion, Balco came clean and admitted they were feeding scientists and the public bogus studies about ZMA enhancing performance whilst injecting their athletes full of undetectable steroids and growth hormone ("because it was fun and exciting" - Victor Conte talking about Marion Jones). This seems to have further encouraged the hostile environment depicted by the news report.

I think it's all Victors fault (and company); it wouldn't be amusing at all if a group of lobbyists rode this wave to succeed in banning over the counter vitamins - Linus Pauling was correct about vitiman C in particular; like monkeys we are missing the 4th enzyme in the chain to manufacture vitiman c; other animals that have this enzyme produce the equiv (based on weight) of 10 grams (think 20 500 milligram pills) a day of C.

Dr ken (having posted recently about monkey feeding) would probably concur with linus about the C; the guidelines for keeping monkeys healthy stipulates supplementing their diet with 10 grams (based on weight) of vitamin C every day (they're also primates and lack the 4th enzyme in the chain).

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medici

Spain

Who knows what the real deal was with Balco: litigation is still pending for some of the cast of characters. Where's it all lead: the chief of them all, Victor Conti got a slap on the hand short term sentence to a Federal facility near Livermore, California, likely a FedMed type prison.

Conti was not the originator of the undetectable steroids. At this point it seems that Patrick Arnold was the culprit. His firm was raided, but I don't believe he's yet gone to trial - I may be incorrect on that.

Patrick Arnold made a fortune with his Ergopharm and the pro-hormones from the mid to late 90s until they were banned by Congress in 2006.

From what I've read, the "undetectables" are deemed so only because those substances are not on the official map of testosterone isomers, hence are not tested for; however, once identified, they go into the repetroire of substances tested for. In many cases, Arnold resurrected versions of testosterone isolated or synthesized in the 1960s, but for various reasons never used nor manufactured.

He is said to have exceptional skills as a chemist. That those versions were not put into use may indicate testing proved them to either be not so good or have unpleasant side effects - who knows???

The other deception is "I passed the drug test; I'm a natural". Lee Priest used that one in a feature story on him in the Austin Statesman. Turned out the contest in question tests only for diuretics. Nothing else.

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