MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Dorian Trains Mark
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next | Last
Author
Rating
Options

kata14

Check it out, what's the name of this technique?
Seems like a rest pause, isn't it?

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=459aDkdAK18
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Those are forced reps. That's the kind of jerking that brought Dorian his injuries. Not a good lesson.

Mark looked his best in early 2007, after doing higher-rep rest-pause (a la DoggCrapp). After following that regimen, he finally showed some lat width at the IronMan competition (a weak point for him in the past).

Based on what I've seen from the Olympia, all that width seemed to have disappeared under Dorian's tutelage.

Aside from the injuries, the short, low-rep single sets may have worked for Dorian, but they obviously don't work for everyone --- not even other juiced, strong BBs.

The strength + pump combo from DoggCrapp rest-pause made Dugdale much "fuller".
Open User Options Menu

bdog

In my opinion, whether or not high or low reps work for you is entirely based on the fiber makeup of the muscle.
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

I think that Mark's physique has been doing better with his training lately. I don't think the DC training was meant for him.

As far as the form he uses in the video clip, I'd call that about as close to perfect as it gets.

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

Growl

His form is fine. I don't know if he requires those low rep sets. If I could get the same development working in higher rep ranges, I would because the weight would be lower. Only he can determine that.
Jeff
Open User Options Menu

coomo

jn6047 wrote:


As far as the form he uses in the video clip, I'd call that about as close to perfect as it gets.

jn6047


Yon mean apart from the bounce at the bottom?
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

coomo wrote:
jn6047 wrote:


As far as the form he uses in the video clip, I'd call that about as close to perfect as it gets.

jn6047

Yon mean apart from the bounce at the bottom?


Exactly.

On his Driven DVD, I saw him do Inclines with 450+ that were smooth and higher reps, withOUT the big bounce at the bottom.

Piston-like reps which gave him a good pump. And using those sorts of weights didn't hurt I'm sure.
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

bdog wrote:
In my opinion, whether or not high or low reps work for you is entirely based on the fiber makeup of the muscle.


I didn't want to get into that in what was meant to be a short post, but I believe you are totally correct.

I believe Dorian to be extremely high in the FT, which is why his "style" worked so well for him. If you read Brian Johnston's interview with him (on the IART site), you will see that he indicated that he didn't do very well with pre-fatigue supersets, which probably work best for those who aren't too FT.
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

jn6047 wrote:
I think that Mark's physique has been doing better with his training lately. I don't think the DC training was meant for him.


What are you talking about? He was smaller and smoother after spending the summer in The Dungeon.

Unfortunately, I don't the chronology of when he started and stopped the various techniques.

The Driven DVD shows him still doing Labrada-style high-intensity workouts, with about 2 sets per exercise. This, I understand has been his longest running training style.

He looks much fuller than the O. Perhaps it was the L-style and not the DC-style that worked best for him. It sure as hell wasn't DY-style!
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

Simon, if you go to musclemayhem.com Mark actually details what his training with Dorian was like. As well, reading there you can find out the timelines for his training styles.

As for my opinion on his form, again, I see nothing wrong with it.

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

OSAKA/J

Dugdale's form looked alright to me,
although with all the intercutting, it
was sort of hard to tell how much Yates
was pulling up on the bar, and how much
Dugdale was actually working, even
though you could see the effort on his
face. Forced reps are hard to gauge,
load-wise, anyway.

As for the low reps he put out,
I don't really think it's that necessary. If it works for him, then
fine, but to me, going that low on a
continual basis (and I don't know how
long Dugdale stayed on this programme)
could lead one to injury.
Just my two yen on this...

Osaka/J
Open User Options Menu

medici

Spain

simon-hecubus wrote:
Those are forced reps. That's the kind of jerking that brought Dorian his injuries. Not a good lesson.

Aside from the injuries, the short, low-rep single sets may have worked for Dorian, but they obviously don't work for everyone --- not even other juiced, strong BBs.

The strength + pump combo from DoggCrapp rest-pause made Dugdale much "fuller".


There's a good argument that polypharmaceuticals worked wonders for Dorian - including the telltale HGH growth of facial bones.

Yates'chronicle of of his training career is rather astonishing - one could just as easily deem it his personal chronicle of a growing list of injuries, culminating in mandatory surgeries bringing his career to climax.

that leaves the reader wondering if the training alone accounted for ever growing and ever worsening injuries, or if polypharmaceuticals accelerated their onset?

In any event, his Warrior's Way account of training and injuries would seem best characterized as a good way not to train unless one's looking for the same career ending injuries - and, of course, if one can afford $50,000 or more per annum to support the drug bill.

All that considered, Yates' training advise is rather worthless for the drug-free natural camp since his method paid off only with massive doping. It's called dope cause that's what you have to be to use it!
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

Well, I'll take Yates' advice over Kayo's advice, but that's just me. Everyone has different goals and priorities, and the more I read/participate in this board, the more I realize that mine differ far to great with what is the apparent norm here.

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

marcrph

Portugal

jn6047 wrote:
Well, I'll take Yates' advice over Kayo's advice, but that's just me. Everyone has different goals and priorities, and the more I read/participate in this board, the more I realize that mine differ far to great with what is the apparent norm here.

jn6047


Not listening to someone with over 40 years experience is foolishness. Success comes from experience, and experience comes from mistakes. Beware the Adonis complex. Many pitfalls await the unwary soul who wants to be a competitive bodybuilder.

Good health to you!
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

marcrph wrote:
jn6047 wrote:
Well, I'll take Yates' advice over Kayo's advice, but that's just me. Everyone has different goals and priorities, and the more I read/participate in this board, the more I realize that mine differ far to great with what is the apparent norm here.

jn6047

Not listening to someone with over 40 years experience is foolishness. Success comes from experience, and experience comes from mistakes. Beware the Adonis complex. Many pitfalls await the unwary soul who wants to be a competitive bodybuilder.

Good health to you!



My last comments on this thread.

Experience in general does not always equate to success. Just because someone has done something for a long time does not mean they are any good at it nor does it mean that someone who does not follow their advice is a fool.

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

coomo

Kayo is right.I Like Yates.He seems like honest and forthright,which is refreshing among big time BB.However why are we discussing the validation of trainnig styles ,which are supported by AAS?.Same for Dugdale.He seems to have created quite a stir on the youtube site,with the "juicing for God" posts.Thats his choice,and I dont have either God or AAS in my life so ,im not biased either way.But same goes for him,we are TRYING to validate training supported by drugs,(which im not condeming,its personal choice)but its not relavant to me,or I suspect most members of this forum.
Open User Options Menu

latman

Texas, USA

Lets take two pictures and put them side by side...Remember the pic on yates taken in black and white in the offseason in his socks...Massive beyond belief. NOW, lets take the picture of him recently say one from the video...ITS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS.
Yates is but a shadow of his former self as is all the bodybuilders that quit using the FULL amounts they did to compete. Lets get real guys keep things in perpective and stay natural eat healthy and look for training and health longevity. Train HIT style with some cardio thrown in for heart health(I know some disagree with this).

As far as the video is concerned it would be a good tool for motivation.
Open User Options Menu

medici

Spain

coomo wrote:
Kayo is right.I Like Yates.He seems like honest and forthright,which is refreshing among big time BB.However why are we discussing the validation of trainnig styles ,which are supported by AAS?.Same for Dugdale.He seems to have created quite a stir on the youtube site,with the "juicing for God" posts.Thats his choice,and I dont have either God or AAS in my life so ,im not biased either way.But same goes for him,we are TRYING to validate training supported by drugs,(which im not condeming,its personal choice)but its not relavant to me,or I suspect most members of this forum.


Your points are well taken. In order to consistently apply them, as well as discover more principles applicable to training success, we'd do best by first eliminating sources which have based their success on polypharmaceutical dosing. Why?

A Yates or Mentzer's real validity lies in their photos. We'd all love to look like that, the truth be told. Otherwise we wouldn't be screwing around with weights year in, year out.

and that's where our brains and emotions do a big disconnect, or our thinking gets more like that of a drunk than a rationally sober person. that's also how we get some ugly arguments going - largely due to abandoning common sense. And the best way to reconnect with common sense is to recall the primacy of maintaining health and fitness instead of sacrificing our lives on the altar of an obsessive drive to be big at any cost.

One thing in favor of powerlifters is they have the balls and ethical integrity to stand by their drugs: they don't try hiding it, are open about it, and have a community of information. That is, the powerlifters who juice. In a T-Nation interview some years back, Louie Simmons made no bones about being on Equipose for decades. No wonder those guys are strong - they stand by truth, they aren't a bunch of wussie liars and cheats.

The bodybuilders who have something to sell don't tell the truth. They avoid telling you their success is drug based. They're the liar wussies of the gyms. Maybe if bodybuilding had special awards like Biggest Insulin Arms, Biggest HGH Arms, Biggest Depo-Testosterone Cypionate traps, then maybe we'd see some honesty. Of most vascularity due to snorting cocaine backstage.

Then we have a few with engarkened lives of mental illness, drug addiction, and worse. Who would take their advise about anything? Those hypnotized by photos and chosing to deny the obvious: crazed, drug addicted scum are not people you'd chose to be around, put up with, so why rely on such sick jerks for training advise?

Going back to Art Jones' original writings you'll find he eschewed drugs, crazy people, and many others - and that his training methods aimed at bringing success to natural, drug free athletes. So if we're going to hang up new icons of HIT, let's apply Jones' standard along the way: eliminate the drug dependent and forget them. The only way they could get so developed is by drugs or else they would have done it without them. Got it?

If decades have brought anything home it's this: a culture of lies and deceipt rests on wussies lying about their steroid use. Who cares about how big they got, what titles they won: we gotta keep in mind that the drugs did it for them, without the drugs they were also rans in the drug world. Unless you're going to juice like them, why waste your time and good will?

Open User Options Menu

medici

Spain

latman wrote:
Lets take two pictures and put them side by side...Remember the pic on yates taken in black and white in the offseason in his socks...Massive beyond belief. NOW, lets take the picture of him recently say one from the video...ITS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS.
Yates is but a shadow of his former self as is all the bodybuilders that quit using the FULL amounts they did to compete. Lets get real guys keep things in perpective and stay natural eat healthy and look for training and health longevity. Train HIT style with some cardio thrown in for heart health(I know some disagree with this).

As far as the video is concerned it would be a good tool for motivation.


Yates has one survival of his drug days: that HGH made his head, especially cheek area, grow to freakish new dimensions. One could see it year to year a decade ago when he was given the Mr O title. Wonder what's left of his ligaments after so many stupid injuries.
Open User Options Menu

medici

Spain

simon-hecubus wrote:
Those are forced reps. That's the kind of jerking that brought Dorian his injuries. Not a good lesson.

Mark looked his best in early 2007, after doing higher-rep rest-pause (a la DoggCrapp). After following that regimen, he finally showed some lat width at the IronMan competition (a weak point for him in the past).

Based on what I've seen from the Olympia, all that width seemed to have disappeared under Dorian's tutelage.

Aside from the injuries, the short, low-rep single sets may have worked for Dorian, but they obviously don't work for everyone --- not even other juiced, strong BBs.

The strength + pump combo from DoggCrapp rest-pause made Dugdale much "fuller".


They didn't work for Yates: they brought his short career to a premature ending. The question is was it his training style, his polypharmaceuticals, or both that ended his reign so quickly - with massive injuries like being in a war zone? Another bad example.
Open User Options Menu

marcrph

Portugal

jn6047 wrote:
My last comments on this thread.

Experience in general does not always equate to success. Just because someone has done something for a long time does not mean they are any good at it nor does it mean that someone who does not follow their advice is a fool.

jn6047


Spoken like someone without experience.
When did Mr. Yates give you free advice personally? Yeah, the truth hurts! Here it is! Almost everyone, especially the ones reading and posting here have already found out their genetics for bodybuilding are crap. No one posting here is the next Arnold, Casey or Mike.

As the Chinese say, Rots of Ruck! You'll need it in your endeavor to finding everything out for yourself without any help from others' experiences.
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

marcrph wrote:
jn6047 wrote:
My last comments on this thread.

Experience in general does not always equate to success. Just because someone has done something for a long time does not mean they are any good at it nor does it mean that someone who does not follow their advice is a fool.

jn6047

Spoken like someone without experience.
When did Mr. Yates give you free advice personally? Yeah, the truth hurts! Here it is! Almost everyone, especially the ones reading and posting here have already found out their genetics for bodybuilding are crap. No one posting here is the next Arnold, Casey or Mike.

As the Chinese say, Rots of Ruck! You'll need it in your endeavor to finding everything out for yourself without any help from others' experiences.


Well Marcph, you got me, here I am posting again when I said I wouldn't.

Yes, you know me so well, to know what my experience is in life. To judge that from my disagreeing with the some of the information within this thread.
To assume that I don't learn from other peoples exerpeice is absurd. I just choose to learn from those who I feel have the right expereince for my purpose.

It's obvious that a lot of people here who post about anabolic steroids really have very little working knowledge about them. Seriously, comparing Yates at his absolute prime to him now, some 14 years later, and 10 years after he quit competing? Yes, definetly all drugs. Goals never change, lifestyles never change.

As for Yate's giving me advice personaly; yes, he did once.

This is a message board. You don't know me, I don't know you. I do know that my goals and the goals of most on here are not the same, as I mentioned. I aspire to become a competitive bodybuilder. Will I be the next Yates? Unlikely. Will I be competitive on a regional level? Time will tell.

The reason I came to this board was my search for 1st gen Nautilus and Avenger equipment. I've tried to engage in topics I thought were interesting, to share what I knew and to learn from others, to have an open mind. But I'm tired of what I keep seeing here.

If I were more like you Marcph, I would assume that the constant attack of others on this board is due to jealousy, insecurity, or ignorance. But I won't do that. I'll just chock it up to a difference of goals/opinions. In the mean time I'll keep quiet and just read threads where I beleive I may learn something. Thanks a lot for your insight and for exposing me to everyone for the inexperienced pup that I am.

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

jn6047 wrote:
Yes, you know me so well, to know what my experience is in life. To judge that from my disagreeing with the some of the information within this thread.
To assume that I don't learn from other peoples exerpeice is absurd. I just choose to learn from those who I feel have the right expereince for my purpose...


That last sentence reminds me of a saying, which I will paraphrase/rework since I cannot remember it word for word:

"Everyone who agrees with me is brilliant and everyone who disagrees, an idiot."

I guess you'll keep searching until someone gives the answer you want to hear. I put it to you that sometimes the answer you DON'T want to hear --- the one that really rubs you the wrong way --- is the one you ought to listen to.
Open User Options Menu

jn6047

simon-hecubus wrote:
jn6047 wrote:
Yes, you know me so well, to know what my experience is in life. To judge that from my disagreeing with the some of the information within this thread.
To assume that I don't learn from other peoples exerpeice is absurd. I just choose to learn from those who I feel have the right expereince for my purpose...

That last sentence reminds me of a saying, which I will paraphrase/rework since I cannot remember it word for word:

"Everyone who agrees with me is brilliant and everyone who disagrees, an idiot."

I guess you'll keep searching until someone gives the answer you want to hear. I put it to you that sometimes the answer you DON'T want to hear --- the one that really rubs you the wrong way --- is the one you ought to listen to.


All I have said is that my goals differ from others here, so their "experince" pertaining to what I strive for really has limited merrit. Here's an example: If I wanted to build a spaceship it would make sense to learn the fundamentals of flight. After that I would need to learn specifcally how those fundamentals would apply to my goal of entering space.

Why is it that everyone on this board that has a differing opinion has to be treated so poorly? Why is it that any time I have posted something I feel has merrit it has to be torn apart like this? I'm begining to think you are all guilty of what you claim I'm doing in the above quote. I'm treated like a complete fool for having different goals and opinions.

As for me looking for specific answers, I really haven't come here for that. If I did ask a question pertaining to my goals, I'd probably be treated just as poorly as I have been so far, so what would be the point? And who here is really equipped to answer some of the questions I might have?

jn6047
Open User Options Menu

marcrph

Portugal

Mr. jn6047

It's marcrph, not marcph!

That's Marc and rph stand for
registered pharmacist. Most call me Doctor at work. I also have an undergraduate degree in Medical Technology. I was a specialist in Hematology and microbiology.

No you are wrong, I do not know you well, but you disrespected kayo. I do not appreciate that. He is a valuable member on this board. He writes articles for Iron Man and has many years of training experience.

On the other hand, Mr. Yates is an admitted user of illegal drugs. Illegal, I said. Most bodybuilders are breaking the LAW. Don't be like them, or me either for that matter. Do you want to be breaking the law, and have to possibly live a life behind bars? Competitive bodybuilding simply is not worth it. If you had the genetics, you would not be posting here.

I'm an expert on drugs. If you want to know something about steroids, just ask. You will not like the answer if you have your heart already committed to using illegal steroids. Of all things do not trust your heart, as it will deceive you into bad actions, rather use your mind to make good decisions.

Sometimes silence is golden, as it allows time for the brain to work and think what is the best course of action. So sit back and read the posts, examine the evidence, and decide for yourself. This is the best site for real bodybuilders. I will be sorry to see you not posting. You seem like a nice guy, honest and forthright.

Good health to you!
Marc
Open User Options Menu
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next | Last
Administrators Online: Mod Phoenix
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy