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waynegr

Switzerland

Hi All,

As some of you thought or even suggested that I could not use the weights that I said, I just had to prove you wrong, with some real evidence and proof, like some of you dont have, as I said when you said I could not do these weight, thx for the complement, thx again for one hell of a big complement, this his how big and strong you get on John Caslers Direct Compensation Training.

When I did these videos I was not then going to post them, because they do not make the little of what you see of me very good, as my lats quite good, but seem nothing in the video, but it?s a side shot, so I will now have to post a photo of me, and with the belt on it does not do much for my midsection, but even Clarence Bass would be showing a bit with the belt that tight on a nautilus, and they are not very professional but raw, but maybe that how it should be, no make up and glamour just the real thing, nice a raw.

My friends have borrowed my camcorder, so this is from my digital camera, but its got 8 million pixels so it will have to do, but it did not come out as good as I wanted, there was not enough light and I should have done it in daylight, I put some sheets up to help but it made it worst.

I Have been doing these one armed pullover for nearly 50 weeks now thats just about a year, and its been full progress, when I say full progress, I mean I have always got every rep of every set, and that is truly amassing, but its now getting very hard, and its ironic, but the fist time I failed on a rep and its on camera.

And I was supposed to do 67, 87 and 97, but went up higher for the camera, I went for 30/15/10 at 70, 90 and 100, it was a mistake, As image on a single joint exercise (well I call it single joint) like this and you close to your limit and you should have added one pound, but you added four, and remember its one handed, and as you can see on the second set I did not get my full reps, and the last was very hard also, and just for the camera I threw in 20 fast forced assisted reps at the end, I could have easily gone to fifty reps as you will see, I no not usually do or need these extra reps, I was going to do a few negatives after this, but if you notice at the end I did actually try one, but just could not hold it at all.

I have done 20 x 90 15 x 110 10 x 120, for full reps.

On the 99% of these reps I have not gone to failure, I just terminate the set when the desired reps are done.

These one armed pullover were done on the Nautilus Super Pullover, not sure if the same weight, lets say a 100 will feel or be the same on any other machine.

John I hope you do not mind me using the below ??? If so I will edit it out, the first parts of Set One, two and three are wrote by John.


Set One = This set acts as a warm up, (warm up, this by far the hardest set) and maximally stresses the musculature and all the support systems as a warm up. Which is needed to achieve maximum metabolic, structural, and CNS efficiency. Pump after the first set is pretty incredible.

Just noticed that I only did frigging 29 on the first set, must have been nerves in front of the camera, and they all are full range, you can tell that if you look at the distance, the weight stack goes down. As you can see these were quite easy reps, and to first one who says they are to fast, gets the corny joke title of the year.

Rep speed on the first set was .85/.85; the whole working set took 50 seconds.

Set Two = This is a maximal effort set, and the last two reps are "dead stops". While this is generally a difficult set, failure is not always the goal. If I am in a "progress" phase, I only look for a rep or couple pound increase every session.

As I said before I went up a bit to much on these sets, and assisted myself on the first rep with my other hand, and as you will see these reps were quite hard, and then very hard, I got 13 full reps here, I should have terminated the set at 13, but went for tow more, which was another mistake.

Rep speed on the second set was .85/.85; the whole working set took 23 seconds.

Set Three = this set is to failure if needed, but the overload rep or weight goal is more important. Each rep is attacked with the intension of moving the weight as fast as possible. Intensity is at the level that I have to sit at the end for a few seconds and regain orientation. It is a violent, intense effort and the first two sets are staging to prepare for it. There would be NO WAY to get here in a single set.

As you will hear from the noise and vibration, and my dog barking in the background, this was a full out work set. On the first two sets you seen my other hand on my waist, on this set I forgot about this, and out it on my chest, where I usually put it, and you can clearly see it there. And it was as you can see hard, for the camera I threw in 20 fast forced assisted reps at the end, I could have easily gone to fifty reps as you will see, I no not usually do or need these extra reps, as I very well now know, failure is not needed to get very strong or relatively strong for your size, I was going to do a few negatives after this, but if you notice at the end I did actually try one, but just could not hold it at all.

Rep speed on the third set was .85/.85; the whole working set took 17 seconds.

Now some talk here of injury and momentum coming into play, I will tell you something for nothing, I moved them weights with my frigging one hand, END OF STORY.

As you all know at the stretched position of the Nautilus, well the old ones, not sure what the new ones are like, in the stretched position its very dangerous, but as you can well see I put huge forces on my one arm, and at the highest speeds I could move the bar, the speed and force at the top turnarounds must have been huge, was I hurt, of course not, but please if your just into the weights do not try this, as I am very used to doing this.

Fast, hey I could have gone far faster on the first set, but was going as fast as I could on the other sets, now do you think its as fast as you imagined ??? And remember this is a very long ROM.

I did .85/.85 on all reps, hey thats funny.

Notice how fast failure comes ???

My curls on the multi biceps and some other exersices are faster and far more violent than this.


And if someone comments on form, remember I made a mistake and put on to much for the camera, but in my eyes the form was fine, its hard to do anything but form on this machine, however when using very heavy weights relative two oneself, I am sorry but full form will have to go out of the window, as you just can not use very heavy weight and use perfect form, if you do, you will only limit yourselves, and you will most prob stay the size you are now, are you happy with your size ??? If not loosen up and get into the real World,

I was playing Lisa Stansfield greatest hits, and if anyone has this, they can check that there was roughly five minutes between sets.
If anyone can beat that on a nautilus super pullover they can have my car, and its not you average run of the mill car at all, its one of my three favourite cars of all time.

Sorry about saying you name to often John, I think from the tone of my voice you can clearly see I am sorry, I did mean to say the say on the video but dammed forgot, big big big thx John for the extra muscle and strength, its worth far more than a lotto win, thank you. Also the last two months I had a lot of PMs and E-mails from people say that they know you from other forums, and basically when you talk everyone should listen up, your knowledge is the highest I know of by a long shot.

I did these Sunday night, and my right side lats, traps, triceps and chest is sill sore.

Made my day and was not all planed, when this is the real thing just started on my last set, as this really is the real think

Hey I might make a film of my one and only wrist curls next, as I know you all love hearing obout them, next is a photo.

http://youtube.com/...h?v=EoxqK8Zg9pQ

http://youtube.com/...h?v=g75AOU7ckmQ

http://youtube.com/...h?v=2C8OlbfrZWQ

Wayne


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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Very brave to post video's of yourself. Good for you. Also I have a second gen Nautilus pullover and I can always use a new car. lol

Michael
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waynegr

Switzerland

bigmikep wrote:
Very brave to post video's of yourself. Good for you. Also I have a second gen Nautilus pullover and I can always use a new car. lol

Michael


Thx Michael,

Yep really did not want to do it as I am the very shy type, and believe it or not was nervous doing the video, and found it hard going.

Sugar and shit, maybe I should have said someone the same bodyweight hehehe, anyway, you might like the car, but you would not like the fuel consumption one bit.

Thx.

Wayne
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Growl

Hi Wayne,
Good job posting some videos.
Jeff
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therealto

Nice form. It looked just like everyone else at the local YMCA that I worked out at when I went home for Thanksgiving this past weekend.

Way to be in the norm like everyone else in the world.

I also can't figure out why you don't want to talk about momentum because that is the only thing you are using to move that weight. I could get one of my 70 year-old clients to do 30 reps with 70 lbs on it just like that.

Very impressive.
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All Pro

Nice job Wayne. You don't sound anything like what I thought you would.
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HamsFitness

wasnt the purpose of the pullover to eliminate the use of the triceps by bracing the upper arm against the padded frame?
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HITMOF

great job posting those videos wayne and yes sometimes you cant beat the old school nautilus machines
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OSAKA/J

Don't take this the wrong way, wayne, but IMO that was WAY too much momentum.
I know that you love the fast and violent reps, but to me, that was way too much. While you say you have never been hurt training that way, I can't honestly say someone else wouldn't get hurt doing training in that manner.

I will say that you have earned a star for posting, and that does take a measure of guts. And, yes, I honestly wish that I had a Nautilus pullover right now!

Osaka/J
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coomo

Wayne with all due respect,doing half reps,using your hands,and throwing the brace bar down,with a 1 second cadence is hardly good form.Use the machine as it was intended then see how much weight you can use.If you want to ill try and find a camera and post Pullovers executed correctly?
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Raider22

Ohio, USA

coomo wrote:
Wayne with all due respect,doing half reps,using your hands,and throwing the brace bar down,with a 1 second cadence is hardly good form.Use the machine as it was intended then see how much weight you can use.If you want to ill try and find a camera and post Pullovers executed correctly?


Why don,t you post a video of yourself using the same form he did and replicate the weight and reps.

The form was not that bad and the reps were not exactly explosive. Some of you guys act like your made out of egg shells. This idea that anything that does not approach super slow is dangerous is almost a little wimpy.

There is a huge difference in doing moderately fast reps on a Nautilus pullover and doing Olympic snatches.





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jastrain

holy crap!!!! that is not the way to use that great machine. push with the elbows against the pads.try not to apply any pressure from your hands. the bar is only there to be used as a guide. all of the pressure should be used with the elbows only. also,slow way down you are not even hitting the back muscle going that fast and useing your hands.

plus, i dont see you going to failure. but, i do commend you for posting the video. i have never seen a video of anyone who goes to failure so you are not alone. i wish someone could post a video of someone performing an exercise correctly and who actually goes to --failure-- that would be very helpful to people who have never trained correctly. perhaps dr darden could do this? i think it would be extremely valuable to people who visit this board.
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therealto

I'm glad that people are actually giving their honest opinions on his actually "pullover workout" if that is what you want to call it.

I don't think there is just 1 method to use when you are doing strength training. There are different methods that work for different people.

However, the way you are using that machine is ridiculous. I would really like to read what Dr. Darden has to say about that so-called "set."

In all honesty, keep using the form that you are doing because those very few times that I do go to the YMCA, I really enjoy walking past someone like yourself, working out like you do, and laughing to myself, and shaking my head because there are so many things flawed with that form.

Very inefficient way to strength train. Please keep posting the video's though, so I can show my clients how not to workout!

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waynegr

Switzerland

Growl wrote:
Hi Wayne,
Good job posting some videos.
Jeff


Thx Jeff.

therealto wrote:
Nice form. It looked just like everyone else at the local YMCA that I worked out at when I went home for Thanksgiving this past weekend.

Way to be in the norm like everyone else in the world.

I also can't figure out why you don't want to talk about momentum because that is the only thing you are using to move that weight. I could get one of my 70 year-old clients to do 30 reps with 70 lbs on it just like that.

Very impressive.


Thx therealto, and thx for saying good form, as you just cant move this kind of weight any other way.

HITMOF wrote:
great job posting those videos wayne and yes sometimes you cant beat the old school nautilus machines


Thx kingfish, think its you anyway.

All Pro wrote:
Nice job Wayne. You don't sound anything like what I thought you would.


Big thx All-pro, as we debated a very lot, you saying nice job Wayne means a lot, thx.
Funny about people you chat to on different forums, you always sort of have a view on what they look like, but most turn out very different, I will hopefully post a photo, and I dont look at all 46, some say I look late 20s to mid 30s.

Wayne
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coomo

Wayne buy one of Caseys dvds PLEASE you will see how to use Nautilus machines properly.You have to do this unless you want to be the target of derision on this site forever.You clearly need help.
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waynegr

Switzerland

OSAKA/J wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way, wayne, but IMO that was WAY too much momentum.
I know that you love the fast and violent reps, but to me, that was way too much. While you say you have never been hurt training that way, I can't honestly say someone else wouldn't get hurt doing training in that manner.

I will say that you have earned a star for posting, and that does take a measure of guts. And, yes, I honestly wish that I had a Nautilus pullover right now!

Osaka/J


Not sure why you think there is much momentum ??? S you think if I let go of the bar it would carry on without me, give me a break, it would immediately crash straight back.

Tell you what, as there are a lot of you talking about momentum, lets see one of you post a video of you doing your 1RM, then take 80% and go move it as fast as you can and show me all this forward moving momentum, can not you understand I am trying to constantly accelerate into the bar, I am constantly pushing into the bar.

You keep on and on about this momentum, but you have no proof or evidence, yes there is a little, but its in all moving objects.

Please proved evidence and proof, as what is the point in just saying there is momentum with out explaining why you think there is, for Gods just try to prove it, you just cant say so and so without proving it, it just does not make sense

Please prove these are wrong,


Albert Einstein,
Take a bathroom scale into an elevator, stand on the scales, and see when it registers the greatest weight ??? When the elevator is at full stop, or is moving upwards or is moving downwards. You will note that offloading takes place when the elevator accelerates downwards and that enhanced loading takes place as you begin to accelerate upwards.

Sir Isaac Newton,
Newton's 2nd Law,
An increase in the upward acceleration will increase and not offload the force exerted on the lifter. The only way to offload a muscle is to accelerate downwards with the load, not to slow it down while going upwards.

Hope that is a gold star.

coomo wrote:
Wayne with all due respect,doing half reps,using your hands,and throwing the brace bar down,with a 1 second cadence is hardly good form.Use the machine as it was intended then see how much weight you can use.If you want to ill try and find a camera and post Pullovers executed correctly?


All the reps were full reps, you just cant do half reps with this kind of weoght, if I had tried half reps I would not be able to do as much weight and reps.

Go measure the distance the distance on the video, and that will prove they were full reps, and I admired to once on the second set on the first rep to help the first one down.

I cant wait to see you do 100 pounds for 1o reps one handed at a 2/4, you have no chance at all, you just cant produce hardly any power like that, cant you get it ???

Your 1RM bench is 300, so 240 is 80% what you use for reps of 10 at 2/4, and at 2/4 you are only producing 240, I am producing 300 pounds.

I am not interested in form, if I was I would go join a synchronised swimming team, for Gods sake come into the real World of strength training.

jastrain wrote:
holy crap!!!! that is not the way to use that great machine. push with the elbows against the pads.try not to apply any pressure from your hands. the bar is only there to be used as a guide. all of the pressure should be used with the elbows only. also,slow way down you are not even hitting the back muscle going that fast and useing your hands.

plus, i dont see you going to failure. but, i do commend you for posting the video. i have never seen a video of anyone who goes to failure so you are not alone. i wish someone could post a video of someone performing an exercise correctly and who actually goes to --failure-- that would be very helpful to people who have never trained correctly. perhaps dr darden could do this? i think it would be extremely valuable to people who visit this board.


This is the real way to use this great machine, its made to produce great strength and size in your lats and traps, its not meant to be used by children.

Using the grip this way is far more natural.

I have not trained to failure for over a year now, well 90% I have not, and my results are now staggering, I now admit failure is not needed, and may slow you down big time.

But this last set was to failure for my right arm, as I only did the last 20 reps with both hands for the camera, and if you look close I tried one last negative only rep, but I knew in the first moment I could not hold it at all, so I went to positive and negative failure.

If you could feel the pain in my lats and traps you would not say what you did, as this way is the hardest on them.

therealto wrote:
I'm glad that people are actually giving their honest opinions on his actually "pullover workout" if that is what you want to call it.

I don't think there is just 1 method to use when you are doing strength training. There are different methods that work for different people.

However, the way you are using that machine is ridiculous. I would really like to read what Dr. Darden has to say about that so-called "set."

In all honesty, keep using the form that you are doing because those very few times that I do go to the YMCA, I really enjoy walking past someone like yourself, working out like you do, and laughing to myself, and shaking my head because there are so many things flawed with that form.

Very inefficient way to strength train. Please keep posting the video's though, so I can show my clients how not to workout!



therealto, I am interested in real size and strength, not working out with school girls, if and when {never} you can even come close to replicating these poundages, as in your 2/4 or my faster reps, give me a bell, but I think very much you will not post a video or yourself with these poundage so yet again another without proof or evidence.

This is how real people train, is not a glamour show with all formy freaks, posing on a nautilus doing two armed pullovers with 70.

This is the most inefficient way to strength train, you would be buried if you trained with me.

But if you want to stay small and weak carry on.

Raider22 wrote:
coomo wrote:
Wayne with all due respect,doing half reps,using your hands,and throwing the brace bar down,with a 1 second cadence is hardly good form.Use the machine as it was intended then see how much weight you can use.If you want to ill try and find a camera and post Pullovers executed correctly?

Why don,t you post a video of yourself using the same form he did and replicate the weight and reps.

The form was not that bad and the reps were not exactly explosive. Some of you guys act like your made out of egg shells. This idea that anything that does not approach super slow is dangerous is almost a little wimpy.

There is a huge difference in doing moderately fast reps on a Nautilus pullover and doing Olympic snatches.


Big big big thx Raider22,

What a bunch of schooly girlywhirrlys we have here.

As Raider22 said replicate the weight and reps, at any rep speed ??? Otherwise you are all talk and no action; I am all action and not much talk.

But on a more serious note, with the poundages I was using and remember they were one handed, I was quite surprised at how good my form was when I seen it, as its just, and I mean this its just imposable to move this weight another way, and it was not that fast now was it, I mean it was only .85/.85.

Wayne


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waynegr

Switzerland

coomo wrote:
Wayne buy one of Caseys dvds PLEASE you will see how to use Nautilus machines properly.You have to do this unless you want to be the target of derision on this site forever.You clearly need help.


PLEASE go ask someone how Casey Viator really trained, are you all brainwashed.

Seems like I am going to make a lot of new enemies and friends here.

Wayne

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waynegr

Switzerland

Wizard wrote:
wasnt the purpose of the pullover to eliminate the use of the triceps by bracing the upper arm against the padded frame?


It was one of Johns ideas, best ask him, but it feels more natural and comfortable this way, and stresss the lats more.

The first time I used a nautilus pullover, my traps, lats, triceps, chest and abs were sore the next day.

Forgot to say on the video that I missed the week before workout, so this was my first lat workout for 14 days, and forgot to say my abs were sore also, they were sore from the extra weight and the extra 20 reps, my lats and trap are still a bit sore now, and some clown said I was not working my lats, that was ho so funny.

Wayne
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

Damn it Wayne, you don't know shit about the physics involved and you know it.

You don't need to have a high enough amount of momentum to "throw" the weight for the muscles to be significantly unloaded over a portion of the ROM.

Your form is atrocious. Your speed isn't nearly as fast as I thought it might be, but it is still too fast. Especially on an exercise that starts with the shoulder in a stretched position.
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waynegr

Switzerland

Drew Baye wrote:
Damn it Wayne, you don't know shit about the physics involved and you know it.

You don't need to have a high enough amount of momentum to "throw" the weight for the muscles to be significantly unloaded over a portion of the ROM.

Your form is atrocious. Your speed isn't nearly as fast as I thought it might be, but it is still too fast. Especially on an exercise that starts with the shoulder in a stretched position.



Hi Drew,

Hope you read all I wrote too, as you needed to see the full story.

I have to admit some of you are getting very boring and starting to get on my nerves, but I will be polite as youre a good guys.

Fist thing that lets me know that you are the ones who knows nothing abut physics, is that all along you and the others have said things like the above, you say I dont know shit all about physics, then there is no explanation, nothing ??? I could say to you, hey Drew you know nothing about training, and you would obviously say why Wayne, and if I did not answer you would think what a childlike comment.

Drew and the others you need to explain yourself, on the physics, because I honestly do not think you understand it, as especially as you have never do any fast reps.

If you really think my set especially the last two were unloaded you must honestly be living in a cartoon World, and rally making a personal insult to me, I moved these weights with my own muscle, if I had stopped producing force nothing would have happened, let me repeat, I moved these weights with my muscles, there was no magic force helping me, and you could very well see that from the videos, as the last two sets were very hard.

In all due respects someone with the same levels of strength could not have moved them weights no other way than like I did, its totally impossible, and without being biased towards myself I was quite surprised on how good them form was, I mean its just imposable to do it any other way in this machine.

Throw, you throw light balls, you just cant throw this kind of weight, so you think if I had stopped in the last three quarters of the rep the bar would have keep moving, no way, it would have immediately crashed back and very fast at that.

And even if you call it a throw, what provide the huge force for this so called throw ??? Yes my muscles, they are what produces this force/power/strength, and they keep on producing it, as the bar keeps moving until the end, then I repeat this my muscles, they are again what produces this force/power/strength, and they keep on producing it over and over, the rep is far to short to proving any real momentum, its a joke to say that,

Just go on then prove Newton and Einstein were wrong ??? Cant wait.

You know when you see A huge 1RM on say the dead lift, well that lifter is actually try to move the bar as fast as he can, other wise he will not complete the rep, that is what we are doing, we are producing the highest amounts of force/power/strength that we can, its as simple as that, and you are producing the lowest force/power/strength, that is why we progress and you dont.

Yes there is momentum in all moving objects, but my muscles moved 99.95 of all that weight, damned you could see how hard it was and how hard I was trying.

I am glad you said that my speed was not nearly as fast as you though it would, thank you for being honest there, this is the one point we have been trying to get across, but most think/thought the speeds would be crazy fast, but with these weights you just can move that fast, but as you will see on the second to sets I actually was trying to move as fast as I could.

Why are you people so interested in form, form and speed are different things, if I was interested in form I would join a girl bally dancing team, or synchronised swimming team, or a dancing class, or a mime school.

But I am interested in using and attaining my highest strength, to build the bigger muscles, and when doing this you need you use the whole kinetic chain, that?s the way the body works.

Sa you bench is 400, you would use 80% 320 for reps at 2/4, and only produce 320 pounds of force/power/strength, I would be using 400 of force/power/strength, because I want the highest tensions on the muscles, put you would have far lower tensions, one of the many questions you or the other fail to answer.

Cant you see these fast reps are hitting the muscles with far far far higher tensions than the slower reps ??? There is no way I could have reached these strength levels on doing slow reps.

The challenge to the slow reppers,
Ok you are about the same weight as me, 185 to 195, and you must have a old super pullover to use, I know lots here have, lets see you or anyone else in this machine and lets see how many reps you can do with 70, 90 and 100 one handed on a 2/4 or a 1/1.

How much do you think I could do one handed without a warm up at 2/4 ???

Wayne
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waynegr

Switzerland

Drew Baye wrote:
Damn it Wayne, you don't know shit about the physics involved and you know it.

You don't need to have a high enough amount of momentum to "throw" the weight for the muscles to be significantly unloaded over a portion of the ROM.




Hi again,

Lets put an end to this silly momentum issue for one and for all.

Jeff, Drew is a Physicist as we all know there is momentum in all moving objects, is it possible to work out how much momentum there is in say a 240 bench press, when the persons 1RM is 300, and at a distance of 18 inch press, and at speeds of 2/4 and 1/1, I mean would it say be 3% in the 2/4 and say 6% in the 1/1, or would the extra momentum be less that 1% ??? Who knows, or as we are not breaking terminal velocity, and always trying to accelerate into the weight, would this momentum cancel out, and only be there after we stop ???

I will also ask this on an independent site, like a physics site, and another top training site.

Wayne

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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hey Wayne,

For starters, I do commend you for posting videos. Very, very brave.

My first concern is the minimal ROM used. You're not getting anywhere near a good stretch and there's no crunch-contraction at the bottom.

Whether you're throwing the weights or moving them too fast or whatever, the main problem is see is that you're just moving the weights, whatever it takes --- there's no mind-muscle connection going on. This is why these "tremendous" poundage increases (don't you even dare to call them strength gains) haven't brought you tremendous muscle gains.

You are totally blowing through the most productive portions of the movement (stretch and contraction). You are heaving the weight at the mid-point of the movement and momentum takes over from there. You're not working the weight where your muscles are weakest.

Take some time off to study some real physics textbooks, so you can see and better understand the terms Acceleration
and Momentum.

Later,
Scott
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sgsims1

This is the most hilarious thread ever to grace this board...
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Paul Marsland

The challenge to the slow reppers,
Ok you are about the same weight as me, 185 to 195, and you must have a old super pullover to use, I know lots here have, lets see you or anyone else in this machine and lets see how many reps you can do with 70, 90 and 100 one handed on a 2/4 or a 1/1.

How much do you think I could do one handed without a warm up at 2/4 ???

Wayne


I do slow reps and here is my challenge to YOU..

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=l2cx7rdXz14

Regards


Paul.
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sgsims1

jastrain wrote:
i have never seen a video of anyone who goes to failure so you are not alone. i wish someone could post a video of someone performing an exercise correctly and who actually goes to --failure-- that would be very helpful to people who have never trained correctly. perhaps dr darden could do this? i think it would be extremely valuable to people who visit this board.


jastrain....if you guys could talk David into video of Brett training, you would certainly see what you're looking for.

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