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Dr. Darden: Why Carb Diets?
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SanSooMan

A reliable hospital study done a few years back in which hospitalized folk were given a 1,000 calorie diet from the hospital's metabolic kitchen. One group got a low-carb diet, the other high. After 6 weeks the low-carb dieters lab values significantly better. The only value that was NOT significantly beter but non-the-less better was weight loss. So it seems that a Paleo-type diet would not only aide in fat loss but gaurd against Syndrome X conditions. And remeber, calories do not make us fat, INSULIN does. Don't believe this, just ask a type-1 diabetic.
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Larry T

North Carolina, USA

There are numerous studies that show that low/lower carb eating isn't the voodoo that the FDA and medical community said it was. The studies ARE out there. But as usual, people pick a side and defend it because their reputation is on the line or they're too mentally lazy to read them with an open mind.
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Blashy

Quebec, CAN

What I learned for myself is that CARBS give me a feeling of being full.

I can eat a big t-bone steak or TWO and within 30 minutes I still feel hungry.

On the other hand give me a bowl of whole grain cereals with milk or almond milk and THAT makes feel full.

Even a simple banada will give me a better feeling than a couple of burger patties.
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southbeach

SanSooMan wrote:
A reliable hospital study done a few years back in which hospitalized folk were given a 1,000 calorie diet from the hospital's metabolic kitchen. One group got a low-carb diet, the other high. After 6 weeks the low-carb dieters lab values significantly better. The only value that was NOT significantly beter but non-the-less better was weight loss. So it seems that a Paleo-type diet would not only aide in fat loss but gaurd against Syndrome X conditions. And remeber, calories do not make us fat, INSULIN does. Don't believe this, just ask a type-1 diabetic.


You didn't cite the reference so we can't evaluate this claim. The devil is in the details.

Be careful interpreting these studies.. weight loss from caloric restriction alone may improve blood lipid profile even when the macronutrient ratio's are not great/optimum. What happens when weight stabilizes.. lipids get worse with higher fat intake.


Obesity (2008) 16, 5?6. doi:10.1038/oby.2007.52

The Low-Fat Imperative

George L Blackburn

This issue of Obesity includes two studies that support reduced fat consumption, Donnelly et al. and Donahoo et al. Diets with less fat (approx20?25%) can reduce mean energy intake by 100 kcal/day?enough to stop the growing epidemic of overweight and obesity. Our task is not to debate whether low-fat diets work, but to find ways to increase adherence to them.

Approximately two-thirds of the US adult population is overweight and one-third is obese.1 In 2002, obesity and obesity-related complications accounted for 9.1% of US health care expenditures (or more than $92 billion), and those numbers are rising.2

Cutting dietary fat is the most efficient way to stop the obesity epidemic. With 9 kcal/g, fat is the most energy-dense nutrient. Eating less fat, particularly less saturated and trans fat, easily reduces energy intake.

This issue of Obesity includes two studies that support reduced fat consumption, Donnelly et al.3 and Donahoo et al.4 Each examines the typical range of western fat intake and suggests that eating more fat leads to increased energy intake and greater weight gain compared with reduced fat consumption. Diets with less fat (approx20?25%) can reduce mean energy intake by 100 kcal/day, or the equivalent, over the course of a year, of 10 lb?enough to stop the growing epidemic of overweight and obesity.5,6,7

Low-fat diets produce moderate weight loss, but questions remain as to whether such diets can be sustained. Long-term studies demonstrate that diets moderately low in fat can be maintained over time. In a 7-year follow-up, the Women's Health Initiative found that those who consumed less fat and more fruits, vegetables, and whole grains lost more weight than controls, and maintained their weight loss.8 The Framingham Study showed that over 40 years, a modest 5?7% decrease in dietary fat reduced total caloric intake by approx150 kcal/day in men and 100 kcal/day in women.9,10

Health benefits from low-fat diets are not unimpressive. A 5-year study examining cancer patients in remission found that those who consumed the prototypical "Western Diet" (characterized by high intake of fat, red meat, refined grains, and desserts) showed a higher risk of recurrence than those who ate less of those foods.11 The recently completed Women's Intervention Nutrition Study found that a diet low in fat (33.3 g/day vs. 51.3 g/day) and higher in fiber, fruits, and vegetables produced greater weight loss over 5 years, and reduced breast cancer relapse rates by 24%.12

Unlike a diet high in carbohydrates and proteins, a high-fat diet works against the goals of healthy eating. Satiety hormones in the gut, e.g., cholecystokinin and peptide-YY, normally slow gastric emptying and promote satiety in response to nutrient stimulation. With long-term intake of a high-fat diet (i.e., 58% energy), these hormones become dysregulated.13 Hunger increases, as does energy intake required to achieve satiety. In turn, body weight also increases.

The United States Department of Agriculture has been recommending moderate fat intake since it released its first set of nutritional guidelines in 1916.14 The American Dietetic Association,15 American Heart Association,16 National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute,17 and the Institute of Medicine18 all recommend lifetime consumption of diets high in vegetables and moderately low in fat.

Evolution favors such a diet. For nearly 2 million years, our predecessors consumed lean meat, fish, vegetables, fruits, and nuts?low-fat diets high in fiber, proteins, and essential fatty acids. Retrospective models of Paleolithic diets estimate macronutrient content at approx62% carbohydrates, 24% fat, and 14% protein.19 Whole foods and moderately low-fat diets approximate this macronutrient content. As all macronutrient-based diets produce similar long-term weight loss, it does not matter which one people choose; the key is long-term adherence and maintenance of weight loss.

Our task is not to debate whether low-fat diets work, but to find ways to increase adherence to them. We need to spread the message that moderate weight loss of 10% is an acceptable, healthy option for those who want to lose weight?an option easily achieved by cutting small amounts of fat out of each meal. This is a reasonable and realistic goal, one that can be achieved as well as sustained.


A high whole plant food diet is best for longevity and health. Don't be fooled even "lean" meat is significantly fatty.

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southbeach

Larry T wrote:
There are numerous studies that show that low/lower carb eating isn't the voodoo that the FDA and medical community said it was. The studies ARE out there. But as usual, people pick a side and defend it because their reputation is on the line or they're too mentally lazy to read them with an open mind.


No long term study of the safety of low carb diet exists. You are operating on faith here.

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bigbadwolf590

I agree. I have used, with a lot of success, diets rich in carbohydrates. Dr. Susan Kliner endorses carbohydrate rich diets for those training intensely. She co authored a great book on the subject "Power Eating." A great book to get a diet plan together.

Regards,
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Acerimmer1

High carb diets absolutely can be made to work. There is no debate on that.

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Larry T

North Carolina, USA

Southbeach says "No long term study of the safety of low carb diet exists. You are operating on faith here."

Acerimmer1 says "High carb diets absolutely can be made to work. There is no debate on that."

Southbeach, just because you don?t care about the studies doesn't mean you can wish them out of existence. The point isn't an either/or here. How many people would need to lose fat and get healthy on a lower carb diet before the lower-carb diet got a fair shake? Are all the people who don't do the 60-20-20 going to Hell?

The following is an excerpt from a book long out of print. I think about this section almost daily:

"The wise man changes his mind; the fool never." There can be no progress without change, no growth without renewal. There must be a constant stream of new thought -- better thought and truer thought -- to insure progression of life. As soon as you perceive the better, let go of the old, grasp the new. To hold on to the old and inferior when the new and superior is at hand is to retard growth, and to this one cause may be traced many of the ills of man.

Strive to be on the outside what you idealize on the inside. Your thoughts make you; and your ideals, principles, and ruling desires will determine your destiny.

Have good and sound reasons for all the views you hold. As you try to find these, many of your old-time views will fall to pieces. Form clear and definite ideas regarding your convictions as to why you do as you do, and as to why you think as you think. Such practice is like conducting a mental house cleaning.

My thoughts:

1. Know WHY you believe WHAT you believe. If you don't know WHY you believe it, then why do you believe it?

2. Never be heard saying "Don't confuse me with the facts; I've already made up my mind." An ignorant man is a dangerous man.

3. It's what you learn AFTER you thought you knew it all that counts.
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

My two cents:

What I've found is that the stated goal of many diets, other than proper supply of micronutrients is to control excessive insulin spikes, and all the related health issues surrounding this. The low carb crowd, seeks to achieve this by using foods or combinations of foods that have a low glycemic index.

The more traditional diet seeks to accomplish this by eating frequent small meals...(most low carbers would also agree with this, I think), smaller meals even if they are high in carbs, are unlikely to cause huge insulin spikes as long as they have some fat and some protein. (to my understanding, insulin spikes are caused when food turns to glucose either too rapidly from something that digests very quickly or because you've eaten a very large meal in one sitting) I think it is important to eat some of each of protein, fat and carbs at every meal, and to try to keep any one meal below 600-800 calories...

I personally try to go easy on sugar, flour, starches, but if I'm having a lean cuisine dinner and it happens to have 65% carbs and some protein and fat, I don't worry about getting out of "the zone", because how much insulin spike can 300 calories cause?

As for fat, I try to focus on lean protein, lots of fish, monounsaturated olive oil, fish oil... avoid trans or too much saturated fat, and keeping total fat moderate, although I don't think fat is a demon, as long as you focus on the healthier fats and don't overdo....in fact, fats, help to digest slower which keeps insulin spikes down. I do think that insulin spikes/and resulting inflammation may be as big or bigger threat to health then cholesterol/fat.

Does this make sense? I'm not claiming to have any final answers, but these are the thoughts I've come to after reading all the differing viewpoints.
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sgsims1

Dr. Darden;

Several months ago you mentioned an interest in reading Gary Taubes book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" (I think you mentioned that you were ordering a copy?) I was wondering if you had, and your thoughts?
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splice

SanSooMan wrote:
A reliable hospital study done a few years back in which hospitalized folk were given a 1,000 calorie diet from the hospital's metabolic kitchen. One group got a low-carb diet, the other high. After 6 weeks the low-carb dieters lab values significantly better. The only value that was NOT significantly beter but non-the-less better was weight loss. So it seems that a Paleo-type diet would not only aide in fat loss but gaurd against Syndrome X conditions. And remeber, calories do not make us fat, INSULIN does. Don't believe this, just ask a type-1 diabetic.


I couldnt agree more about the insulin making you fat and to ask a type-1 diabetic. I have two people in my family with it and on controlling it with diet alone. I don't think one diet works for everyone, it's just how the world is. For me going low carb and high carb in a rotation fashion works incredibly well.

Days of low carbs and days of high carbs IMO give me the best of both worlds. I personally think giving up carbs for long periods of time is completely stupid as hell. In my mind high carb diets are not exciting, if it was donuts, pastries, french fries and " dirty" carbs like this then HELL YA!! High carb diets to me arent exciting for the simple fact that eating oatmeal,breads,brown rice, and all other healthy carbs isnt anything special.

I love eating the way i eat because i can eat fatty meats, bagels, rice, and foods that aren't part of a proper "diet". All i have to do is eat my foods some what seperate and fat not weight coems right off. It's great.



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stevecollins33

I would callenge anyone who doubts the validity of low carb diets to consult the works of Dr Mauro DiPasquale.
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SanSooMan

Just watching the Discovery Channel on fat loss. Although it doesn't prove anything, one world respected endocrinologist was quoted,"I believe if we all lived in the Paleo times, no humans would be fat".
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Mr. Strong

SanSooMan wrote:
Just watching the Discovery Channel on fat loss. Although it doesn't prove anything, one world respected endocrinologist was quoted,"I believe if we all lived in the Paleo times, no humans would be fat".




Whats with all this Paleo time stuff, other than having a good diet what else did these people accomplish?

How does this guy know no one was fat in paleo times, does he have a time machine? If everyone was doing a 1,000 press ups a day no one would be fat either.

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SanSooMan

Are you kidding, haven't you seen 10,000 BC or Caveman with Ringo Star?
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Thorwalsh

Invariably posts regarding fat loss evolve into this debate of whether low carb or high carb is better for your health. I believe the answer to that is individual. And as has been previously stated, low carb is not "no carb" and when weight loss is no longer the goal it simply means the elimination of sugar and starchy carbohydrate from your diet, which cannot be argued by anyone as being bad for you.

As far as "FAT LOSS" and "MUSCLE SPARING" diets are concerned, a high protein, low carb diet, in my opinion and in the opinion of virtually every study done thus far, is superior.
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goya

It's funny during the low fat craze, the following foods were bad because they were high in fat:

pizza
desserts
french fries

Now with the low carb craze, the following foods are bad because they are high in carbs:

pizza
desserts
french fries
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Mr. Strong

SanSooMan wrote:
Are you kidding, haven't you seen 10,000 BC or Caveman with Ringo Star?



no

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Mr. Strong

Thorwalsh wrote:
Invariably posts regarding fat loss evolve into this debate of whether low carb or high carb is better for your health. I believe the answer to that is individual. And as has been previously stated, low carb is not "no carb" and when weight loss is no longer the goal it simply means the elimination of sugar and starchy carbohydrate from your diet, which cannot be argued by anyone as being bad for you.

As far as "FAT LOSS" and "MUSCLE SPARING" diets are concerned, a high protein, low carb diet, in my opinion and in the opinion of virtually every study done thus far, is superior.




Sugar? What about fruit and veg?
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Mr. Strong

goya wrote:
It's funny during the low fat craze, the following foods were bad because they were were high in fat:

pizza
desserts
french fries

Now with the low carb craze, the following foods are bad because they are high in carbs:

pizza
desserts
french fries




There is nothing wrong with pizza and fries.

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Thorwalsh

Mr. Strong wrote:
Thorwalsh wrote:
Invariably posts regarding fat loss evolve into this debate of whether low carb or high carb is better for your health. I believe the answer to that is individual. And as has been previously stated, low carb is not "no carb" and when weight loss is no longer the goal it simply means the elimination of sugar and starchy carbohydrate from your diet, which cannot be argued by anyone as being bad for you.

As far as "FAT LOSS" and "MUSCLE SPARING" diets are concerned, a high protein, low carb diet, in my opinion and in the opinion of virtually every study done thus far, is superior.



Sugar? What about fruit and veg?


On the maintenance phase of a "low Carb diet, all vegetables can be consumed with the exception of "starchy" vegetables like Potatoes and rice. Fruit can also be eaten but in moderation. Processed sugar, honey, brown sugar all should be avoided completely.
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fantombe

Thorwalsh wrote:
As far as "FAT LOSS" and "MUSCLE SPARING" diets are concerned, a high protein, low carb diet, in my opinion and in the opinion of virtually every study done thus far, is superior.


This is another great example of genetic variation.
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kevindill

Maryland, USA

Trying to argue about Low carb diets without defining what you mean by low carb is kinda pointless. The term low carb has been defined so many different ways by various bodies and researchers that it has ceased to be a meaningful term. While carb restriction in general has proven to be effective in improving metabolic parameters in folks with glucose regulation problems, so has every other diet that isn't the Standard American or Western Diet.
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Mr. Strong

Thorwalsh wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Thorwalsh wrote:
Invariably posts regarding fat loss evolve into this debate of whether low carb or high carb is better for your health. I believe the answer to that is individual. And as has been previously stated, low carb is not "no carb" and when weight loss is no longer the goal it simply means the elimination of sugar and starchy carbohydrate from your diet, which cannot be argued by anyone as being bad for you.

As far as "FAT LOSS" and "MUSCLE SPARING" diets are concerned, a high protein, low carb diet, in my opinion and in the opinion of virtually every study done thus far, is superior.



Sugar? What about fruit and veg?

On the maintenance phase of a "low Carb diet, all vegetables can be consumed with the exception of "starchy" vegetables like Potatoes and rice. Fruit can also be eaten but in moderation. Processed sugar, honey, brown sugar all should be avoided completely.




Whats wrong with potatoes?
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Mr. Strong

Quick question what are people body fat percentages here?

Mine ranges from 8-10% all year round, I don't have bulking or leaning phases.
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