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In my tricep workout I typically start with pressdowns to failure followed by skullcrushers then close grip bench press. As my lateral head of my triceps and my long head are coming on quite well now, I'm looking for exercises that are affective at stimulating the long head, as it needs more fullness. What about cable extensions would they be of great benefit?
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I'll be interested in hearing opinions on this also.
In the strength training school(s) I attended, LOL, my professors insisted there was no way to isolate 'parts' of a muscle - the whole muscle contracted or it didn't.
So you either worked the triceps, pecs, etc. or you didn't ; there was no 'hitting the long head' or ' working the inner pec' , the 'upper bicep', etc., the muscle grew or it didn't. Your lats didn't become 'thicker' OR 'wider' due to 'width/ thickness exercises' ... they got bigger OVERALL.
Now 25 years later through personal experience, I learned where my guys weren't 100% correct on everything so I'm really interested to see the current opinions whether working 'sections' of a muscle is true or a myth .
Maybe a topic for the Myth Busters Show ?
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Hi there,
I all three heads contract/work on all triceps movement, but you could try dips, or as your tall you could try bench dips, sit on a SOLID bench, and put your hands on the bench each side of you, extend forward your lower body until only your hands are touching the bench and dip down until you butt hits the floor.
As your tall you will need to do these on a high bench to get the full benefit, or maybe a low window sill. You can also add weight; place them in your lap.
www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/WtBenchDip.html
Try 20/15/15, and then hit the pressdowns, and close grip, major pump/pain and growth.
Wayne
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Maximise wrote:
In my tricep workout I typically start with pressdowns to failure followed by skullcrushers then close grip bench press. As my lateral head of my triceps and my long head are coming on quite well now, I'm looking for exercises that are affective at stimulating the long head, as it needs more fullness. What about cable extensions would they be of great benefit?
dips. thats all you need.
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Working "part" of a muscle is impossible.....It either contracts or it does not.
That was clearly established decades ago, but it one of those "old wives tales" that is very slow to die. Especially in the muscle magazines, where every month they have to come up with a new SUPER ROUTINE to keep you buying their rag.
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Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
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Wizard wrote:
Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
The long head crosses two joints (shoulder and elbow) the other heads only one (elbow), that's why.
Franco
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Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
The long head crosses two joints (shoulder and elbow) the other heads only one (elbow), that's why.
Franco
Yup indeed - so that blows the "either it contracts or it doesnt" argument out the window for multi joint/head muscles
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coomo wrote:
dips. thats all you need.
I used to believe that also ; rarely did anything 'specific' for triceps or biceps. I believed in what Dr.Ken would often say, that the the pulling and pushing exercises done for the back, chest and shoulders would be enough.
My arms got to 15 5/8 and were stuck at that for 20+ years until I changed the way I trained and started using a couple types of curls and triceps extensions in my routines. Soon after these changes my arms grew 3/8.
BTW, Dips were always a staple in my routines, done progressively as my chest movement. I never believed in anything other than basic , compound movements were necessary for complete development but obviously I was wrong.
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Crotalus wrote:
I'll be interested in hearing opinions on this also.
In the strength training school(s) I attended, LOL, my professors insisted there was no way to isolate 'parts' of a muscle - the whole muscle contracted or it didn't.
So you either worked the triceps, pecs, etc. or you didn't ; there was no 'hitting the long head' or ' working the inner pec' , the 'upper bicep', etc., the muscle grew or it didn't. Your lats didn't become 'thicker' OR 'wider' due to 'width/ thickness exercises' ... they got bigger OVERALL.
Now 25 years later through personal experience, I learned where my guys weren't 100% correct on everything so I'm really interested to see the current opinions whether working 'sections' of a muscle is true or a myth .
Maybe a topic for the Myth Busters Show ?
You will find information on how the long head is more active with certain shoulder positions or movements in mainstream Biomechanics coursebooks. I bet you your professor has learned and taught out of such texts.
EG:
Biomechanical Basis of Human Movement page 2nd edition page 149.
For what it's worth.... Which IMO is A big FAT nothing!
A quick google search confirms this book as a course book at Loughborough University in the UK (which is the top university for Sports Sciences in the UK) and the University of Queensland Australia.
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Wizard wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
The long head crosses two joints (shoulder and elbow) the other heads only one (elbow), that's why.
Franco
Yup indeed - so that blows the "either it contracts or it doesnt" argument out the window for multi joint/head muscles
Actually yes. Ellington lists 3 exercises for triceps in TNHIT, which are Dips(NO), overhead extension with 1 DB and Cable pushdowns.
That and the other multiple-joint exercises (Bench press, Incline press, military press, Pullovers) which stress the triceps too (more or less) should be sufficient to cover all 3 heads.
Franco
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I have found only one exercise to work the long inside head and that's cable kickbacks. Perform only the last third (most contracted) of the range of motion, try to relax the rear delt by concentrating on slowly squeezing the muscle, make it cramp if you can. Shoot for 12 reps, start with 3 sets of these mini reps. I've never been able to get so much as a pump in this area from any other exercise.
Mike
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One of my favorite triceps exercises is the overhead tricep extension using a rope on the lat pulldown. FOr some reason with me, that exercise really hits the triceps the best.
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Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
The long head crosses two joints (shoulder and elbow) the other heads only one (elbow), that's why.
Franco
Yup indeed - so that blows the "either it contracts or it doesnt" argument out the window for multi joint/head muscles
When was it in the window?
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Acerimmer1 wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Triceps intrigue me - I can perform certain exercises that cause the long head to be a stiff as a board but leave the lateral head soft and semi relaxed
The long head crosses two joints (shoulder and elbow) the other heads only one (elbow), that's why.
Franco
Yup indeed - so that blows the "either it contracts or it doesnt" argument out the window for multi joint/head muscles
When was it in the window?
It is (as the OP said?)being taught as fact in qulaification across the globe ( I too was told the same thing years ago when I took a qualification.
I think they take the all or nothing principle and mistakenly apply it to the whole muscle as opposed to the whole fibre
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Perform a unilateral triceps exercise, I did this today with One Arm Press Ups, and feel your triceps of one arm with the other, you'll feel the entire muscle contract, you can try the same thing with other muscles as well.
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We need a real physiologist to answer this.
I don't buy that you can work or contract only 'part' of a muscle. I think you can make it feel as though it's only getting hit in a 'spot' with certain angles or movements, but the whole muscle is still contracting.
If you do regular crunches you might feel them the next day mostly in the upper abs but all of the abs are contracting. You could then do them in reverse and hit the bottom more, but they are all being contracted, just in the reverse order.
That's the way I always understood it worked.
Is there a qualified physiologist in the house to set us all straight or just more muscle heads like myself ?
I remember Dr. Ken saying once that if a physiologist ever heard us talking about isolating 'parts' of a muscle with angles/movements, etc. they wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
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MikaelPR wrote:
I have found only one exercise to work the long inside head and that's cable kickbacks. Perform only the last third (most contracted) of the range of motion, try to relax the rear delt by concentrating on slowly squeezing the muscle, make it cramp if you can. Shoot for 12 reps, start with 3 sets of these mini reps. I've never been able to get so much as a pump in this area from any other exercise.
Mike
A lot criticize the Kickback. But as you say done on the cable it is a very good triceps exercise
Bruce
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I stopped doing kickbacks about 20 years ago ... only because guys I who's articles I read said they were a useless exercise.
I finally started doing them again last year, with a cable right after kneeling, overhead extensions - one arm at a time. Done in JREP style ( top half then bottom half ) I can barely move my arms afterwards they're so pumped.
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Wizard wrote:
I think they take the all or nothing principle and mistakenly apply it to the whole muscle as opposed to the whole fibre
Extremely unlikey. Academics can be dumb but not that dumb.
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Crotalus wrote:
I remember Dr. Ken saying once that if a physiologist ever heard us talking about isolating 'parts' of a muscle with angles/movements, etc. they wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
They can laugh all they like it won't make them any smarter.
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Acerimmer1 wrote:
Wizard wrote:
I think they take the all or nothing principle and mistakenly apply it to the whole muscle as opposed to the whole fibre
Extremely unlikey. Academics can be dumb but not that dumb.
no really - they can - besides I would hardly call the creators of training qualifications academics - thats way too generous...more like money snatching clump it together businessmen
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While it is generally true that you can't isolate just one portion of a muscle, it is possible to place a disproportionate amount of stress on the long head of the triceps.
The long head is the only head that crosses the shoulder joint, so it plays a role in extending the shoulder. Years ago I developed an exercise to place greater emphasis on the long head of the triceps. Using a straight bar, position yourself as if you are going to perform a conventional set of pressdowns. Now, step back about 8". This will not only force the triceps to extend the elbow, but it will really force it into its secondary role of as a shoulder extensor.
It is important to keep your upper arms against the side of your body throughout the exercise. Use 8" as a general guide--there is a fair amount of leeway here based on height, bone length, etc. You will also have to decrease the amount of weight you would normally use for a set of pressdowns. Start with about a 30% decrease in resistance. Use slow controlled reps, and at the end of each rep, not only focus on extending the elbows, but try to extend the shoulders by really "digging" the bar into your upper thigh area. I like to hold this contracted position for a few seconds. You will really feel a cramping in the long head of the triceps when you do this.
As this is the largest head of the triceps, it has the greatest potential for size increases. Because it runs straight down down the back of the upper arm, it has the greatest potential to make the arm look larger from front to back when compared to the other two heads of the triceps. If you are going to use this exercise as the first portion of a pre-exhaust cycle, use dips as the second exercise because it is about the only compound triceps exercise that has the upper arms up against the side of the body in the fully contracted position.
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coomo wrote:
Maximise wrote:
In my tricep workout I typically start with pressdowns to failure followed by skullcrushers then close grip bench press. As my lateral head of my triceps and my long head are coming on quite well now, I'm looking for exercises that are affective at stimulating the long head, as it needs more fullness. What about cable extensions would they be of great benefit?
dips. thats all you need.
i agree--dips are key. but, more importantly is how you perform the dips.go all the way down and when you hit failure --keep pushing like yer life depended on it, for as long as you can--then fight the downward movement all the way down--
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Dr. Darden,
It seems that you should way in on this if ya please.
What has been your experience over the years & what was Arthur's opinion?
Thanks!
Rob
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