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must be done . . . and quickly."
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Poll: Training Frequency
What is Your Current Frequency?
More than 3 days/week More than 3 days/week 2%
3/week 3/week 17%
5 times in 2 weeks 5 times in 2 weeks 6%
2/week 2/week 24%
Every 4-5 days Every 4-5 days 8%
Every 6-7 days Every 6-7 days 10%
Greater than 7 days Greater than 7 days 3%
I do Split Routines I do Split Routines 10%
I use A/B Routines I use A/B Routines 11%
I use more than A/B (A-C,A-D,etc.) I use more than A/B (A-C,A-D,etc.) 6%
Author
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Here's the second part of the poll where we'll look at Frequency.

I hope I've given enough choices to cover this well.

There's multiple choice to help illuminate some responses.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Bumpity-Bump
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Waynes

Switzerland

I work on many splits, working each upper bodypart one time per week directly, but some upper bodyparts get worked indirectly twice per week.

For example triceps are worked directly on Thursday night, but also get worked very hard on shoulder/lat day, and shoulder and lats are worked on Sunday.

Biceps get worked on Friday morning, but also get a mild workout on shoulder/lat day Sunday and a mild workout on Tuesday night on forearm day.

Shoulders get worked on Sunday, but also have mild workouts on other days from all the other exersices.

Lats are Sundays and dont think they get another mild workout at all thought-out the week, but my lats are quite good.

Forearms are on Tuesday night but also get quite a few of mild to medium workouts from all the other exersices.

Chest does not get any direct work at all, its not at all needed.

Legs are on the leg press Friday night, 30/15/10 and a set of 20 leg extensions to finish off.

Legs again Monday night, just tried something new, 10 reps, then 10 sets of 3 reps, 20 reps and then 10.

Calves have just been started worked again after a year off, as they dont seem to budge; I am now trying 12 sets of 10 reps done three times per week.

Think that covers it all.

Wayne
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NATUREBOY

You lift twice a day?
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jastrain

simon-hecubus wrote:
Here's the second part of the poll where we'll look at Frequency.

I hope I've given enough choices to cover this well.

There's multiple choice to help illuminate some responses.


what has been the experience of hit as we age? .i have been doing the aj style hit since 1980.i had done the 3 day a week full body workout to failure for like 20 years and over the last 5-8 years i cut back to once every 4 days.at 42 years of age i do feel much more tired than i did at age 20 with the 3 day a week training.i am wondering if i need to scale back to 1 time per week training at my age?

i not only go to failure but i do each set to failure and keep pushihg[static hold] until my muscle gives out and then i fight the negative with every thing i have all the way down as if my life depended on it.this has given me outstanding results[needless to say] however at my age i am starting to think i may need more recovery.

what has been the experiance of some of the older jonesian lifters who have been doing this type of training for decades with regaurds to recovery time between workouts?
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Butters

I currently train on a system similar to Dorian's, but trying to hit everything 2-3x a week since I'm no where hear his level. I do something like a 70's style chest/back; delts/arms; legs split.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

jastrain wrote:
what has been the experience of hit as we age? .i have been doing the aj style hit since 1980.i had done the 3 day a week full body workout to failure for like 20 years and over the last 5-8 years i cut back to once every 4 days.at 42 years of age i do feel much more tired than i did at age 20 with the 3 day a week training.i am wondering if i need to scale back to 1 time per week training at my age?


Twice/week has been my standard since going to "whole-body" HIT about 4 years ago. Before that, most of my training was on a 3-way split: Chest/Back, Legs, Delts/Arm.

At 46, I've found that I want keep this frequency. It's good to go twice per week and get the heart elevated and break a good sweat.

What I have found is that I cannot go balls-out every set and keep-up with twice/week for long.

I used to do all my sets as you described with a static and slow fight to the bottom. It got to a point a couple of years ago, where this just ragged me out and resulted in lingering soreness.

I took a week off and then came back with doing ALL NTF workouts for about two months. I was rewarded very quickly with some noticeable hypertrophy and better sleep. I still did typical 7-exercise top-to-bottom (or visa versa) routines, they just weren't to failure.

After giving myself this extended breather, I came back to hitting failure on about 50% of my exercises each time and have kept it that way for over two years now. That to-failure siren's call is hard to resist once you've got it in your blood.

Perhaps I could make equal hypertrohic gains by going balls-out on everyting once/week, but right now I enjoy hitting the gym twice/week.

Scott
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southbeach

Congrats on your two polls. They are well thought out. Interesting results, everyone should vote!
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All Pro

I'm in the majority at twice per week. YAE ME!
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

southbeach wrote:
Congrats on your two polls. They are well thought out. Interesting results, everyone should vote!


Thank you and thanks to all who have participated. I will let these go a few more days and then we can break it down.

No big surprises on this poll, but the Volume poll had a couple of things that I found interesting.
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coomo

Wayne said;Chest does not get any direct work at all, its not at all needed.

Luky ole you Wayne.Must be nice to have 2 inches of thick muscle covering your chest.
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karma50

Scott,
At 58 YO, twice a week for strength training has worked well. I tried other frequencies and find this works best. I don't think going to 1/wk and having a "near death experience" workout is desirable for me. I push all sets to failure or just short. About 50/50. I believe as long as each set ends with a hard effort you will build or maintain strength.

I also have started doing somewhat longer sets, which is a lot more brutal than I thought it would be. Even a few more seconds under load is incredible. I'm concentrating hard to avoid lockouts and rests during sets. Tough, but rewarding.
The poll is a good idea, BTW.
Griff
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Butters

coomo wrote:
Wayne said;Chest does not get any direct work at all, its not at all needed.

Luky ole you Wayne.Must be nice to have 2 inches of thick muscle covering your chest.


I remember someone called Arthur Jones saying something similar. He said the overhead press combined with dips was all someone needed for chest development. Nothing saying that I agree, I'm just saying it's in Nautilus Bulletin 2.
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davise

3 times a week on a Monday is chest,back,traps,neck Wednesday is legs, lower back,abs,calves,tibia Friday is Shoulders, biceps, triceps, forearms and fingers.

Each weight workout is followed by 20 minutes on a versaclimber and some stretching. Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays is a conglomeration of unarmed, stick and knife fighting for about an hour.

At the end of each workout (both weights and all in fighting) I do about 5-10 minutes of body toughening ie smashing various parts of my body into hard objects in order to toughen them. Once a week I hike with a heavy pack or go on a mountain bike ride.

I make it out to the firing range to work on point shooting about twice a month. I'm 42 years old and have never felt in better physical condition in my life. I have been stronger and I have been more muscular, but I was more one-dimensional and less well rounded than I am now from a conditioning standpoint.

There are 24 hours in a day so spending one doing some kind of physical activity isn't a whole lot. I sometimes go back to twice a week whole body workouts for a change up every now and then. I also like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain...heh heh
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Post-Weekend Bump
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Waynes

Switzerland

coomo wrote:
Wayne said;Chest does not get any direct work at all, its not at all needed.

Luky ole you Wayne.Must be nice to have 2 inches of thick muscle covering your chest.


Thx, but it can be embarrassing some times, but all the old jokes are so boring now, but my calves are the opposite, stuck at !!!

Wayne
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Marc1000

I train full body twice per week.

Marc
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Marc1000

davise wrote:
3 times a week on a Monday is chest,back,traps,neck Wednesday is legs, lower back,abs,calves,tibia Friday is Shoulders, biceps, triceps, forearms and fingers.

Each weight workout is followed by 20 minutes on a versaclimber and some stretching. Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays is a conglomeration of unarmed, stick and knife fighting for about an hour.

At the end of each workout (both weights and all in fighting) I do about 5-10 minutes of body toughening ie smashing various parts of my body into hard objects in order to toughen them. Once a week I hike with a heavy pack or go on a mountain bike ride.

I make it out to the firing range to work on point shooting about twice a month. I'm 42 years old and have never felt in better physical condition in my life. I have been stronger and I have been more muscular, but I was more one-dimensional and less well rounded than I am now from a conditioning standpoint.

There are 24 hours in a day so spending one doing some kind of physical activity isn't a whole lot. I sometimes go back to twice a week whole body workouts for a change up every now and then. I also like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain...heh heh


Davise;

How does your split routine compare with full body twice per week in terms of hypertrophy?

Thanks,

Marc

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Marc1000

Thank you for doing this poll. It's a really great idea.

Marc
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HeavyHitter32

simon-hecubus wrote:
jastrain wrote:
what has been the experience of hit as we age? .i have been doing the aj style hit since 1980.i had done the 3 day a week full body workout to failure for like 20 years and over the last 5-8 years i cut back to once every 4 days.at 42 years of age i do feel much more tired than i did at age 20 with the 3 day a week training.i am wondering if i need to scale back to 1 time per week training at my age?


Twice/week has been my standard since going to "whole-body" HIT about 4 years ago. Before that, most of my training was on a 3-way split: Chest/Back, Legs, Delts/Arm.

At 46, I've found that I want keep this frequency. It's good to go twice per week and get the heart elevated and break a good sweat.

What I have found is that I cannot go balls-out every set and keep-up with twice/week for long.

I used to do all my sets as you described with a static and slow fight to the bottom. It got to a point a couple of years ago, where this just ragged me out and resulted in lingering soreness.

I took a week off and then came back with doing ALL NTF workouts for about two months. I was rewarded very quickly with some noticeable hypertrophy and better sleep. I still did typical 7-exercise top-to-bottom (or visa versa) routines, they just weren't to failure.

After giving myself this extended breather, I came back to hitting failure on about 50% of my exercises each time and have kept it that way for over two years now. That to-failure siren's call is hard to resist once you've got it in your blood.

Perhaps I could make equal hypertrohic gains by going balls-out on everyting once/week, but right now I enjoy hitting the gym twice/week.

Scott



Scott,

Do you mind posting your current routine or twice a week workouts? I'm still thinking two total body workouts are ideal for me. There's something to be said for training each muscle twice a week IMO.

As you said, I too have a very hard time not going to failure and doing 8-10 exercises even at one set each just wipes me out. Just not practical.

Maybe going to failure on just 4 or 5 could work.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Scott,

Do you mind posting your current routine or twice a week workouts? I'm still thinking two total body workouts are ideal for me. There's something to be said for training each muscle twice a week IMO.

As you said, I too have a very hard time not going to failure and doing 8-10 exercises even at one set each just wipes me out. Just not practical.

Maybe going to failure on just 4 or 5 could work.


Yes to all those things. As far as the twice/week, I like the light/heavy approach myself. For upper body I usually focus on chest and back one workout (which winds up being a "light" day for delts and arms) and delts and arms the next workout (which winds up being a "light" day for chest and back).

I'm currently doing A-B-C-D to allow for some exercise rotation (a la DC, but not as much). There's also a few other things I'm throwing in such as 3x3 and 3x5.

In another thread, you were discussing doing a heavy exercise, followed by a lighter, higher rep one, which coincidentally I've been doing too very recently:

WORKOUT A
EZ Curls - 4x5, alt. superset with
Lying Triceps Extensions - 4x6
Overhead Biceps - 1x10
CG Machine Press - 1x10
Lateral Raise Machine - 1 x 8-10
Leg Extensions - 1 x 5 slow reps
Seated CR - 1 x 7-9 reps (with 5-sec stretch each)

WORKOUT B
Bench Press - 3 x 3
Machine Flyes/Push-Press - 1 x 10
Hammer High Rows - 2 x 5
DB Shrugs - 1 x 10-12
DB DLs - 1 x 7-8
Kneeling Cable Crunches - 1 x 10
Reverse Wrist Curls - 1 x 6, 1 x 3 (50%)

WORKOUT C
Overhead Press - 1 x 4-5 slow reps
Hammer Curls/Pinwheels - 1 x 8, superset w/
RG Chin - 1 rep, 30-sec+
Triceps Pushdowns - 1 x 7-8, SS w/
Hammer Incline - 1 x 5-6
Lying "L" Raises - 1 x 8-10
Hack Squats - 1 x 10 slow reps

WORKOUT D
Neck Machine (F/B) - 1 x 10-12
Pec Deck - 1 x 5 slow reps
Incline Press - 1 x 5
Pullover Machine - 1 x 5
FG Pulldowns or Rows - 1 x 8
Forearm/Wrist Sup/Pro - 1 x 4-6 each way
Leg Curls - 1 x 7-8
Tibia Machine - 1 x 8-10

I know this may seem like a kitchen-sink affair, but at the core are 7-exercise workouts you could easily do with SSTF.

This set-up is heavy on the arms.

Before this, my configuration was:
A & C - Quads, Calves, Upper Body Push
(heavy on delts, hence the lighter delt load now)
B & D - Hams, Upper Body Pull
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HeavyHitter32



Yes to all those things. As far as the twice/week, I like the light/heavy approach myself. For upper body I usually focus on chest and back one workout (which winds up being a "light" day for delts and arms) and delts and arms the next workout (which winds up being a "light" day for chest and back).

I'm currently doing A-B-C-D to allow for some exercise rotation (a la DC, but not as much). There's also a few other things I'm throwing in such as 3x3 and 3x5.

In another thread, you were discussing doing a heavy exercise, followed by a lighter, higher rep one, which coincidentally I've been doing too very recently:

WORKOUT A
EZ Curls - 4x5, alt. superset with
Lying Triceps Extensions - 4x6
Overhead Biceps - 1x10
CG Machine Press - 1x10
Lateral Raise Machine - 1 x 8-10
Leg Extensions - 1 x 5 slow reps
Seated CR - 1 x 7-9 reps (with 5-sec stretch each)

WORKOUT B
Bench Press - 3 x 3
Machine Flyes/Push-Press - 1 x 10
Hammer High Rows - 2 x 5
DB Shrugs - 1 x 10-12
DB DLs - 1 x 7-8
Kneeling Cable Crunches - 1 x 10
Reverse Wrist Curls - 1 x 6, 1 x 3 (50%)

WORKOUT C
Overhead Press - 1 x 4-5 slow reps
Hammer Curls/Pinwheels - 1 x 8, superset w/
RG Chin - 1 rep, 30-sec+
Triceps Pushdowns - 1 x 7-8, SS w/
Hammer Incline - 1 x 5-6
Lying "L" Raises - 1 x 8-10
Hack Squats - 1 x 10 slow reps

WORKOUT D
Neck Machine (F/B) - 1 x 10-12
Pec Deck - 1 x 5 slow reps
Incline Press - 1 x 5
Pullover Machine - 1 x 5
FG Pulldowns or Rows - 1 x 8
Forearm/Wrist Sup/Pro - 1 x 4-6 each way
Leg Curls - 1 x 7-8
Tibia Machine - 1 x 8-10

I know this may seem like a kitchen-sink affair, but at the core are 7-exercise workouts you could easily do with SSTF.

This set-up is heavy on the arms.

Before this, my configuration was:
A & C - Quads, Calves, Upper Body Push
(heavy on delts, hence the lighter delt load now)
B & D - Hams, Upper Body Pull



Thanks, Scott. It's a very well engineered routine. I like the idea of four different workouts over two weeks time. I train at home, but have dumbells, chin/dip bar, and Bowflex Ultimate which would allow me to create quite a bit of variation of exercises too.

Regarding the 3X3 or 4X6 sets vs the one set - too early to tell which is more effective?
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