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Hypertrophy Types?
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HamsFitness

So I keep hearing that there are two types of hypertrophy that can occur seperately.

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar;

I have also heard that they cannot happen individually - if one happens then so does the other in an appropraite ratio.

which is it, study links if possible please?
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All Pro

Wizard wrote:
So I keep hearing that there are two types of hypertrophy that can occur seperately.

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar;

I have also heard that they cannot happen individually - if one happens then so does the other in an appropraite ratio.

which is it, study links if possible please?


http://en.wikipedia.org/...cle_hypertrophy
You'll have to Google the study links but they are listed.
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Waynes

Switzerland


All Pro wrote:
Wizard wrote:
So I keep hearing that there are two types of hypertrophy that can occur seperately.

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar;

I have also heard that they cannot happen individually - if one happens then so does the other in an appropraite ratio.

which is it, study links if possible please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...cle_hypertrophy
You'll have to Google the study links but they are listed.


Come on All-pro lets tell them roughly how each is created in the gym please.

Wayne
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All Pro

Waynes wrote:

All Pro wrote:
Wizard wrote:
So I keep hearing that there are two types of hypertrophy that can occur seperately.

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar;

I have also heard that they cannot happen individually - if one happens then so does the other in an appropraite ratio.

which is it, study links if possible please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...cle_hypertrophy
You'll have to Google the study links but they are listed.


Come on All-pro lets tell them roughly how each is created in the gym please.

Wayne

He asked for links. I provided them. I'm trying to avoid typing all of this stuff out and besides that, who the hell am I that anyone would take my word for it?
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Waynes

Switzerland

All Pro wrote:
Waynes wrote:

All Pro wrote:
Wizard wrote:
So I keep hearing that there are two types of hypertrophy that can occur seperately.

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar;

I have also heard that they cannot happen individually - if one happens then so does the other in an appropraite ratio.

which is it, study links if possible please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/...cle_hypertrophy
You'll have to Google the study links but they are listed.


Come on All-pro lets tell them roughly how each is created in the gym please.

Wayne

He asked for links. I provided them. I'm trying to avoid typing all of this stuff out and besides that, who the hell am I that anyone would take my word for it?


Thought you maybe could put it in short ??? Like britlifter did below.

Ok regarding 10x10 or GVT german Volume Training as its otherwise known is also an effective protocol.

10x10 results in primarily sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and strength endurance due to the large amount of fatigue placed upon a large pool of motor units, sarcomere hypertrophy is also apparent due to the simple fact that 10x10 is quite a large amount of mechanical work and overall tonnage.

Strength gains from 10x10 are primarily stimulated through absolute hypertrophy (increased fiber size) but there is very little neural strength adaptions due to the relative low intensity of loading.

5 x 5 can be done with a greater load therfore total tonnage will be greater than 2 x 12, this would help sarcomere hypertrophy.

Me again,

This is one of the reasons I like 30/15/10, 20/15/10, 15/10/5 or similar, best of both Worlds.

Wayne

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N@tural1

Sarcoplasmic and myofibrilar (sarcomere)

Sarcomere hypertrophy

Is quite simply actual muscle growth, the type of hypertrophy that the powerlifter is primarily intersted in. It is an enlargement of the muscle fiber as it gains more myofibrils.

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is fluid made up of proteins, calcium, sodium, potassium, enzymes, glycogen and water, it's also mitochondria, capillaries, plus much more "stuff", basically the sarcoplasmic part of a muscle is the part that holds energy substances etc. In a bodybuilder sarcomere hypertropy accounts for about 70% of overall hypertrophy, sarcoplasmic accounts for around 30%. when you train with fatigue the sarcoplasmic fluid increases in volume because it is attempting to adapt to increase it's energy supply rate so that fiber fatigue is less likely to occur in the future. Sarcoplasmic part of muscle is the part responsbile for supplying fuel to the actual fibers.
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HamsFitness

Cheer for the replies.

I understand what each is and how it supposedly ohappens.

I was more interested in the disupte between whether they can or cant happen at individual accelerated rates.

Some say you can enhance one over the other, others say you cant.
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All Pro

From Joe DeFranco:
http://www.strengthcats.com/...lesnotequal.htm
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All Pro

Wizard wrote:
Cheer for the replies.

I understand what each is and how it supposedly ohappens.

I was more interested in the disupte between whether they can or cant happen at individual accelerated rates.

Some say you can enhance one over the other, others say you cant.


To simplify this, if you do all of your work at 10 reps, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will out pace strength gains. The size of non-contractile proteins will out pace fiber hypertrophy and CNS efficiency and your progress will stall. If you do all of your work at 5 reps then fiber hypertrophy and CNS efficiency will out pace the support system and your progress will stall.
At 10 reps endurance is improving at a faster rate then strength. At 5 reps strength is improving at a faster rate than endurance.
The above was highly simplified.
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Ciccio

All Pro wrote:
Wizard wrote:
Cheer for the replies.

I understand what each is and how it supposedly ohappens.

I was more interested in the disupte between whether they can or cant happen at individual accelerated rates.

Some say you can enhance one over the other, others say you cant.

To simplify this, if you do all of your work at 10 reps, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will out pace strength gains. The size of non-contractile proteins will out pace fiber hypertrophy and CNS efficiency and your progress will stall. If you do all of your work at 5 reps then fiber hypertrophy and CNS efficiency will out pace the support system and your progress will stall.
At 10 reps endurance is improving at a faster rate then strength. At 5 reps strength is improving at a faster rate than endurance.
The above was highly simplified.


...and not proof of anything. Simply opinions, not science, not even anecdotal evidence.
At what tempo do you do your 5 or 10 reps? What exercises, multiple joint or single joint? To failure or not to failure? How many sets to failure (if you use multiple sets)? 1 set or 10 sets? How much rest between sets? 5 seconds or 5 minuts? The reps you noted for strength and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy are equal for all muscle groups or apply to all trainees?
Did you research all this variables?
No, you didn't.
Sorry, you can't proof anything in that regard.

Franco
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All Pro

Ciccio wrote:
Did you research all this variables?
No, you didn't.
Sorry, you can't proof anything in that regard.

Franco


I've posted at least 1 link in this thread alone. I could easily spam the board but why bother.
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All Pro

This makes 2
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...
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Ciccio

All Pro wrote:
This makes 2
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.g...



A study about dietary protein and it's effect on muscle protein synthesis??? LOL

Franco
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Ciccio

All Pro wrote:
From Joe DeFranco:
http://www.strengthcats.com/...lesnotequal.htm



This was the first link you was talking about?
An article of an "performance enhancement specialist" referenced to Poliquin, Siff and Tsatsouline? Very scientific indeed! ROFL

Franco
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N@tural1

Ciccio wrote:
All Pro wrote:
From Joe DeFranco:
http://www.strengthcats.com/...lesnotequal.htm



This was the first link you was talking about?
An article of an "performance enhancement specialist" referenced to Poliquin, Siff and Tsatsouline? Very scientific indeed! ROFL

Franco


if you read that article and understood the whole concept of rep ranges and how they differ in what kind of hypertophy you'l get, then you would understand all pro's post.

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southbeach

i got to say i am not convinced of 'sarcoplasmic' hypertrophy. sounds like a bunck of hooey
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N@tural1

southbeach wrote:
i got to say i am not convinced of 'sarcoplasmic' hypertrophy. sounds like a bunck of hooey


You're entitled to your opinion. I wont bother posting any links. All you have to do is google sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and you can read 100's of articles all about it.

If you want to deny current up to date science, thats your call.
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southbeach

britlifter wrote:
southbeach wrote:
i got to say i am not convinced of 'sarcoplasmic' hypertrophy. sounds like a bunck of hooey

You're entitled to your opinion. I wont bother posting any links. All you have to do is google sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and you can read 100's of articles all about it.

If you want to deny current up to date science, thats your call.


has it ever been directly OBSERVED with an electron microscope? Hundreds of articles doesn't make for proof, they feed off each other
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N@tural1

southbeach wrote:
has it ever been directly OBSERVED with an electron microscope? Hundreds of articles doesn't make for proof, they feed off each other


Here are some excerpts from "Supertraining" by Mel Siff.

Although the existence of hyperplasia of muscle fibers may be uncertain or rare, hyperplasia of structures within the muscle fibre and cell does occur. Nikituk and Samoilov (1990) identify two types of subfibral hyperplasia.

-Sarcoplasmic hyperplasia, which involves an increase in the number of sarcoplasmic organelles.
-Myofibrillar-mitochondrial hyperplasia, which involves increase in the number of myofibrils and mitochondria.

Increase in muscle diameter is due to enlargement of individual muscle fibres by an increase in the number and size of individual myofibrils (Goldspink, 1980), accompanied by an increase in the amount of connective tissue (McDonagh & Davies, 1984), as discussed in Section 1.6. This increase in muscle protein is produced by increased protein synthesis and decreased protein degradation (Goldberg et al, 1975). Two types of muscle hypertrophy may occur:

-Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. In this case, the volume of non-contractile protein and semifluid plasma between the muscle fiber increases. Although the cross-sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibres per unit area decreases and there is no corresponding increases in muscle strength.
-Sarcomere Hypertrophy. Here there is an increase in the size and number of the sarcomeres which comprise the myofibrils. These may be added in series of parallel with the existing myofibrils, although only the parallel growth will contribute to an increases ability to produce muscle tension. The area density of myofibrils increases and there is a significantly greater ability to exert muscular strength.

So yes, there are two different types of hypertrophy. Now for the next short section...

The data shows that the longer and more strenuous the submaximal loading, the less there is sarcomere hypertophy and the more there is sarcoplasmic hypertophy.

Moderate intensity, high repetition resistance exercise, as commonly used in bodybuilding and circuit training, can also convert fast-twitch fibers to behave more like slow-twitch fibers, apparently in an adaptive attempt to resist the fatigue of the repeated efforts (Timson et al, 1985; Baldwin et al 1992; Noble & Pettigrew, 1989).

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southbeach

britlifter wrote:
southbeach wrote:
has it ever been directly OBSERVED with an electron microscope? Hundreds of articles doesn't make for proof, they feed off each other

Here are some excerpts from "Supertraining" by Mel Siff.

Although the existence of hyperplasia of muscle fibers may be uncertain or rare, hyperplasia of structures within the muscle fibre and cell does occur. Nikituk and Samoilov (1990) identify two types of subfibral hyperplasia.

-Sarcoplasmic hyperplasia, which involves an increase in the number of sarcoplasmic organelles.
-Myofibrillar-mitochondrial hyperplasia, which involves increase in the number of myofibrils and mitochondria.

Increase in muscle diameter is due to enlargement of individual muscle fibres by an increase in the number and size of individual myofibrils (Goldspink, 1980), accompanied by an increase in the amount of connective tissue (McDonagh & Davies, 1984), as discussed in Section 1.6. This increase in muscle protein is produced by increased protein synthesis and decreased protein degradation (Goldberg et al, 1975). Two types of muscle hypertrophy may occur:

-Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. In this case, the volume of non-contractile protein and semifluid plasma between the muscle fiber increases. Although the cross-sectional area of the muscle increases, the density of muscle fibres per unit area decreases and there is no corresponding increases in muscle strength.
-Sarcomere Hypertrophy. Here there is an increase in the size and number of the sarcomeres which comprise the myofibrils. These may be added in series of parallel with the existing myofibrils, although only the parallel growth will contribute to an increases ability to produce muscle tension. The area density of myofibrils increases and there is a significantly greater ability to exert muscular strength.

So yes, there are two different types of hypertrophy. Now for the next short section...

The data shows that the longer and more strenuous the submaximal loading, the less there is sarcomere hypertophy and the more there is sarcoplasmic hypertophy.

Moderate intensity, high repetition resistance exercise, as commonly used in bodybuilding and circuit training, can also convert fast-twitch fibers to behave more like slow-twitch fibers, apparently in an adaptive attempt to resist the fatigue of the repeated efforts (Timson et al, 1985; Baldwin et al 1992; Noble & Pettigrew, 1989).



i have no doubt there is an increase in "semifluid plasma' within and between the myofibrils because of EDEMA from rupture of the same from OVERTRAINING.

Does this constitute "30%" of the size we see?
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HamsFitness

Thanks for the replies so far;

However, I was kind of hoping that there maybe some studies not just srticles on it, hell i could write an article on space travel but it doesnt make it true:)

A reproducable experiment?

Just something that could perhaps clear up some glitches for me.

I appreciate the logic behind such ideas but I like to see evidence before I form an opinion

Cheers again for all so far
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southbeach

Wizard wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far;

However, I was kind of hoping that there maybe some studies not just srticles on it, hell i could write an article on space travel but it doesnt make it true:)

A reproducable experiment?

Just something that could perhaps clear up some glitches for me.

I appreciate the logic behind such ideas but I like to see evidence before I form an opinion

Cheers again for all so far


Here's the deal dude.. traumatize tissue and it will SWELL up in size.

Lot of dudes are overtraining in gym everyday or every other doing MSTF. Do you think maybe they are all swollen up from too much exercise? is this a possibility? i think it is VERY real!
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Acerimmer1

I think that inflamattion does to some degree contribute to muscle size. Hence the popularity of NO supplementation.

I also think that inflamattion is a natural part of the process of muscle build up anyway.
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All Pro

Wizard wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far;

However, I was kind of hoping that there maybe some studies not just srticles on it, hell i could write an article on space travel but it doesnt make it true:)

A reproducable experiment?

Just something that could perhaps clear up some glitches for me.

I appreciate the logic behind such ideas but I like to see evidence before I form an opinion

Cheers again for all so far


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...ogdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...Pubmed_RVDocSum

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HamsFitness

Thanks for the time to post links All Pro but what have any of them got to do with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy being increased over myofibrilar?!?!

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