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Waynes

Switzerland

As some do not want to answer these questions, I thought I would make a thread as not to spoil the other threads.

1,
David Landau and a few others {you know who you are}

Why do some of you NOT use all your strength when doing an intentionally slow rep ??? And please do not bring up the momentum issue as there is NO extra momentum in the faster reps until the last 10% of the rep. As when you rep faster from 10/5 too 4/4, 2/4 or 1/1, the only thing that is different is the speed.

2,
Some also stated that you can not measure power/strength. I put down all the maths. physicists do this every day on humans, machine and many other things.

But you did not say why you could not measure power/strength. I also stated to them that you can actually see the higher measuring of power/strength on a scales if you stand on it and rep slow then fast.

So guys what is this all about, and please for once can we have just one thread with NO mocking, any mocking on both questions will be taken as you dont know of an answer to give, and you admit defeat.

Wayne

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Raider22

Ohio, USA

1,
David Landau and a few others {you know who you are}

Why do some of you NOT use all your strength when doing an intentionally slow rep ??? And please do not bring up the momentum issue as there is NO extra momentum in the faster reps until the last 10% of the rep. As when you rep faster from 10/5 too 4/4, 2/4 or 1/1, the only thing that is different is the speed.

By the last rep they are using every muscle fiber available. The body recruits fiber in an orderly fashion, slow to fast. If you train intentionally slow the slow twitch fiber will fatigue first, then intermediate, and then finally fast twitch. A very efficient and scientific way of recruiting fiber.
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Captain Pike

I'm beginning to get a complex now - I'm wondering if I "know who I am". Sometimes I think I don't, but now you bring it up in public you got me thinking.


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Landau

Florida, USA

"By the last rep they are using every muscle fiber available. The body recruits fiber in an orderly fashion, slow to fast. If you train intentionally slow the slow twitch fiber will fatigue first, then intermediate, and then finally fast twitch. A very efficient and scientific way of recruiting fiber."

Yes Raid, took the words out of my mouth as far as at the end of a set, working as hard as humanly possible. Wayne, are you using a bathroom scale? - real scientific (seriously?) Repetitive trauma to the connective tissue over time with fast repping/heaving movements may produce more force, but the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Some can get away with it over time, (most are fooled by this fact) but in this game the evidence is overwhelming.

Addressing the muscles with strategic and relatively slow/smooth movements has always been the safest way to reasonable muscular gains. Bottom line if you understand it, is to bring it home. Demonstrating fast movements simply makes one a better laborer and a laborer over time learns to make his work easier. I look at it like I am the foreman, I have it when I need it.
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Waynes

Switzerland

Do you know what my answer would have been; I would have said that I honestly did think that a slower rep was harder years ago.

Raider22 wrote:
By the last rep they are using every muscle fiber available. The body recruits fiber in an orderly fashion, slow to fast. If you train intentionally slow the slow twitch fiber will fatigue first, then intermediate, and then finally fast twitch. A very efficient and scientific way of recruiting fiber.


Hi Raider22 and David,

Yes but why waste the first 11 reps on a 12 repper ??? Thats madness, as you have wasted over 90% of the set. Ok what ever speed and weight you are putting tension on the muscles, but if you use 80% and I use 80% and you move at 4/4 and me at 1/1, I put full tensions on the full set, does that sound far more logical.

Yes but Raider22, in the slow reps the small fibers are only recruited until the very last say two reps, and these small fibers have the least potential for growth, so why not recruit the lager fibers first {as well as the small fibers} and for the whole set, as these have the most potential for growth ???

Basically on the slow reps you recruit about 70% of your fibers, but on the fast reps you recruit them all from the start, you recruit the small and large fibers from the start and work them very hard for the WHOLE set, not just the end. That 30% you neglected has the most potential for size and strength gains.

When your speed slows down youre producing less force as a direct result of recruiting fewer fibers. all those gut wrenching slow contractions that result in nausea ??? Essentially, at the end of those sets youve simply forced your smaller motor units to do the brunt of the work. If the set lasts any longer than 15 to 20 seconds, the biggest motor units have taken a break, actually they on the slow reps are not even called in until the end.

1,
I will be putting say double the tension on each and every one of those 12 reps.

2,
I will have the highest tension, {MMMT} higher than my 80%, roughly 50% higher then my 80%, at the transition from negative to positive.

3,
I would have {if you work to failure} fatigued the muscles far faster.

4,
I do no let the strain off the muscle in the too slow negative, which actually lets the muscles recover a bit.

5,
I will be producing and using all my power/strength.

6,
I too can do the faster reps and go to failure.

Landau wrote:
Yes Raid, took the words out of my mouth as far as at the end of a set, working as hard as humanly possible. Wayne, are you using a bathroom scale? - real scientific (seriously?) Repetitive trauma to the connective tissue over time with fast repping/heaving movements may produce more force, but the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Some can get away with it over time, (most are fooled by this fact) but in this game the evidence is overwhelming.

Addressing the muscles with strategic and relatively slow/smooth movements has always been the safest way to reasonable muscular gains. Bottom line if you understand it, is to bring it home. Demonstrating fast movements simply makes one a better laborer and a laborer over time learns to make his work easier. I look at it like I am the foreman, I have it when I need it.


Bathroom scales are fine for what I want to demonstrate. Take a 10 pound weight, curl it slow and the reading will hardly move, curl it as fast as you can, and you should be able to double the weight on the 10 pounds, thats am amazing 100% more tension on the muscles, and tensions on the muscles are what makes it grow stronger and bigger, ok I am making for the most % here as I only used 10 pounds, but using 80% most on the faster rep should be able to generate 30 - 40% more tension too the slow rep.

I am not at all saying for a beginner to use the faster reps, or anyone to use the faster reps if they dont want to, but after a year or more you get the feel of the weights and most people actually do a faster rep, and most are fine, ok we all have the little strain every now and again, on the weights or in real life.

But to be honest if I have a strain thats not what I want, but what I want is the most efficient way for size and strength, and to do this you need the highest tensions on the muscles, and to do this you need to rep as fast as you can.

Come on David you seen my video, and as Drew said, it was not have as fast as he thought, as to be honest, no one can move 80% that fast.

Basically most of my reps are like Jeff was doing in Johns video on the bench press. Soon I will put another video up of me doing some DM curls, and I think most again will be surprised.

Wayne





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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

If you are strong enough to accelerate a weight quickly enough to double the resistance encountered (initially, after you stop accelerating kinetic energy makes it EASIER to continue), then you are also strong enough to move a much heavier weight more slowly.

Rather than attempt to increase the difficulty by moving very quickly, why not just USE MORE WEIGHT and move under control?

Seriously, Wayne, nobody is interested in discussing this with you any more. If you believe you're right, you're welcome to continue training fast. It's your body.
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Waynes

Switzerland

I am not telling anyone to do fast reps, just making a point, as the progress is unstoppable.

Drew Baye wrote:
If you are strong enough to accelerate a weight quickly enough to double the resistance encountered (initially, after you stop accelerating kinetic energy makes it EASIER to continue), then you are also strong enough to move a much heavier weight more slowly.

Rather than attempt to increase the difficulty by moving very quickly, why not just USE MORE WEIGHT and move under control?


Even if I was doing 10 reps, I would still be using the right amount of weight for these 10 reps, as if I increased the weight too much the reps would go down, and this is not wanted

I use the resistance I do at this speed as I want to get a certain number of reps done. I do use the heaviest weight {or nearly} that I can use for 30/15/10, increasing the weight for each set.

But you miss another point, as in doing these reps the fast reps and doing all the sets 30/15/10; I have created far more tension and lifted an accumulated bigger weight.

But even if I was lifting the same % of your 1RM and we were the same strength I would have used the muscles far more effectively, as I stated in the above 1 too 6, which you have not adressed.

Drew Baye wrote:
Seriously, Wayne, nobody is interested in discussing this with you any more. If you believe you're right, you're welcome to continue training fast. It's your body.


Look at all the people, they progress for a few months, then at a snails pace, why ??? Because they are not using all their strength.

I have come to the point on some of the lower end sets, that if I try to do them slow I can only get about 1 or 2 reps, compeered with 10 faster reps

You might not like to discuss this as you train mostly beginners I think, and the slower rep is your income, but if you like me want to get the very utmost out of your reps you must move the weight as fast as possible, I want the most efficient way for size and strength.

Drew as I stated from the start I am NOT interested in mocking, or people that can not answer my questions, you have not stated I am wrong.

Matt Wenning Director Of Westside Barbell wrote,
Much of my studies as a biomechanics master student dealt with the force plate and using it in different protocols.

What is written below sounds to be about dead on, this is the reasoning behind speed work, to be able to create maximal force in short time periods.

The real understanding of dynamics comes from actually having to do it. Our program allows our athletes to lift heavy weights quickly as well as light ones. Ive seen Chuck V. on an accelerometer move 750lb of weight and 300lbs in bands at .7 m/s!!!, we also have a 300lb guy that can jump on a 34in box
with 70lb dumbbells.

People that dont believe dynamic training days are important and are very much needed, have never witnessed or felt its power.

Very late here bye all.

Wayne
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Raider22

Ohio, USA

Wayne,

If I am not mistaken you use heavy weight for high reps. The same pattern of recruitment is happening with your training. The only way you can just recruit all fast twitch muscle initially would probably rip the muscle from there attachment points. Didn't David Banner try to harness this phenomenon?

You claim your progress is unstoppable, is that both strength and muscle gain or just strength? If it is just strength you may be becoming more skilled at moving the weight, not developing muscle mass which is usable tissue.

Both the elite Olympic lifters and Louie Simmons figured out that what they were doing did not sufficiently develop muscle mass. Olympic lifters began using complexes to develop muscle mass and Louie Simmons added the repetition effort for mass gains. In the repetition effort one of the protocols, they train to failure. Louie's original protocol was dynamic effort and max effort. He added the repetition effort several years later.

I believe that your protocol works, but no better than the HIT protocol. The HIT protocol is very powerful if done properly, most people do not have the balls to go to true momentary muscular failure. I see way to many people that train one set to failure, fake failure when it gets painful. These individuals will not get maximum benefit.

My last point is that for the genetically gifted they will grow at an abnormal rate no matter what protocol they use.
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Waynes

Switzerland

Thx for saying that, that there is more tension on the muscles with the faster reps, so this begs the question why not go faster and then to failure ??? As I can rep basically the exact same way as you can when you do your slower reps, the only thing different is the speed.

And to claim injury is a moot point, as if this is the case then every Olympic athlete would have to slow down their performance and perform at say 70% of there best, if that was true most of then could be beaten by Mr average, imagine a boat rowing race, and each has to go slow, not much of a race. Then all the powerlifter would have to stat training slow, and all the strongmen. Then there

You also see no powerlifter, strongmen of bodybuilders train slow, if any of these did stat to train slowly, you would see a fall in strength straight away, and fall in strength will mean a fall in size, as in the slower rep you must use far less weight then in the faster rep.

Thank you for keeping this a debate without mocking.

Wayne
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southbeach

Waynes wrote:
As some do not want to answer these questions, I thought I would make a thread as not to spoil the other threads.

1,
David Landau and a few others {you know who you are}

Why do some of you NOT use all your strength when doing an intentionally slow rep ??? And please do not bring up the momentum issue as there is NO extra momentum in the faster reps until the last 10% of the rep. As when you rep faster from 10/5 too 4/4, 2/4 or 1/1, the only thing that is different is the speed.

2,
Some also stated that you can not measure power/strength. I put down all the maths. physicists do this every day on humans, machine and many other things.

But you did not say why you could not measure power/strength. I also stated to them that you can actually see the higher measuring of power/strength on a scales if you stand on it and rep slow then fast.

So guys what is this all about, and please for once can we have just one thread with NO mocking, any mocking on both questions will be taken as you dont know of an answer to give, and you admit defeat.

Wayne



Wayne, why don't you use all YOUR strength?

Only a 1RM uses 'all' your fibers at once. Why aren't you using 1RM's in your training? Why aren't you using all your fibers?
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Landau

Florida, USA

Specificity
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Raider22

Ohio, USA

Wayne,

Your examples of quick movements in a variety of sport is different than pure strength training. Skill, movement, and power are specific to the skill being performed.

Strength training is about developing the raw material of muscle mass and general strength. Then use this muscle mass and general strength and practice the skills of a given sport tirelessly. If the sport involves a skill of lifting such as strongman or olympic lifting it is obvious that you have to execute the movements that are involved in your sport.

For the general population we should be concerned with developing muscle and strength efficiently and safely.

High force and high tension are related but not the same. The best way to create tension on a given muscle group is to make sure that there is maximum tension on the muscle through a full range of motion. High force movements tend to have maximum tension initially then drop off too 0 in many cases.
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Waynes

Switzerland

southbeach wrote:
Waynes wrote:
As some do not want to answer these questions, I thought I would make a thread as not to spoil the other threads.

1,
David Landau and a few others {you know who you are}

Why do some of you NOT use all your strength when doing an intentionally slow rep ??? And please do not bring up the momentum issue as there is NO extra momentum in the faster reps until the last 10% of the rep. As when you rep faster from 10/5 too 4/4, 2/4 or 1/1, the only thing that is different is the speed.

2,
Some also stated that you can not measure power/strength. I put down all the maths. physicists do this every day on humans, machine and many other things.

But you did not say why you could not measure power/strength. I also stated to them that you can actually see the higher measuring of power/strength on a scales if you stand on it and rep slow then fast.

So guys what is this all about, and please for once can we have just one thread with NO mocking, any mocking on both questions will be taken as you dont know of an answer to give, and you admit defeat.

Wayne



Wayne, why don't you use all YOUR strength?

Only a 1RM uses 'all' your fibers at once. Why aren't you using 1RM's in your training? Why aren't you using all your fibers?



I am using al my strength on my 30/15/10, well on some of the 30s I do pace some of these, but 15/10 are full out sets, if you dont use all your strength you will just not get the desired reps, you will fail miserably after a few reps.

However you are quite wrong on the fiber issues, as most books will confirm, if the weight is heavy enough and its moved fast enough al fibers are called upon, and I use relatively heavy weight for myself, roughly 60 too 90%.

Are all my fibers called upon in the first third of my 30 set, I think not, but on all reps and sets after this they are.

ANYWAY

These questions are not about the way I train, I asked specific questions and of yet they have not been answered, you seem to be hiding behind a bush, you know the questions so what is your answers ???

Wayne
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southbeach

Waynes wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Waynes wrote:
As some do not want to answer these questions, I thought I would make a thread as not to spoil the other threads.

1,
David Landau and a few others {you know who you are}

Why do some of you NOT use all your strength when doing an intentionally slow rep ??? And please do not bring up the momentum issue as there is NO extra momentum in the faster reps until the last 10% of the rep. As when you rep faster from 10/5 too 4/4, 2/4 or 1/1, the only thing that is different is the speed.

2,
Some also stated that you can not measure power/strength. I put down all the maths. physicists do this every day on humans, machine and many other things.

But you did not say why you could not measure power/strength. I also stated to them that you can actually see the higher measuring of power/strength on a scales if you stand on it and rep slow then fast.

So guys what is this all about, and please for once can we have just one thread with NO mocking, any mocking on both questions will be taken as you dont know of an answer to give, and you admit defeat.

Wayne



Wayne, why don't you use all YOUR strength?

Only a 1RM uses 'all' your fibers at once. Why aren't you using 1RM's in your training? Why aren't you using all your fibers?


I am using al my strength on my 30/15/10, well on some of the 30s I do pace some of these, but 15/10 are full out sets, if you dont use all your strength you will just not get the desired reps, you will fail miserably after a few reps.

However you are quite wrong on the fiber issues, as most books will confirm, if the weight is heavy enough and its moved fast enough al fibers are called upon, and I use relatively heavy weight for myself, roughly 60 too 90%.

Are all my fibers called upon in the first third of my 30 set, I think not, but on all reps and sets after this they are.

ANYWAY

These questions are not about the way I train, I asked specific questions and of yet they have not been answered, you seem to be hiding behind a bush, you know the questions so what is your answers ???

Wayne


Wayne,

not all your fibers, and therefore not all your 'strength', is utilized with a 30 rep or a 15 rep or even a 5 rep set til' you get to the last rep.

so why aren;t you using all your strength from the start? why waste effort on a 30, just cut to the chase.. the 1RM?
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Waynes

Switzerland

Raider22 wrote:
Wayne,

Your examples of quick movements in a variety of sport is different than pure strength training. Skill, movement, and power are specific to the skill being performed.

Strength training is about developing the raw material of muscle mass and general strength. Then use this muscle mass and general strength and practice the skills of a given sport tirelessly. If the sport involves a skill of lifting such as strongman or olympic lifting it is obvious that you have to execute the movements that are involved in your sport.

For the general population we should be concerned with developing muscle and strength efficiently and safely.


Agreed.

Raider22 wrote:
High force and high tension are related but not the same. The best way to create tension on a given muscle group is to make sure that there is maximum tension on the muscle through a full range of motion. High force movements tend to have maximum tension initially then drop off too 0 in many cases.


When you rep fast there is NO drop off of tension until the very last 10% of the rep, where you must too slow down the weight and reverse its direction, this to has to be done in all reps. However the tension for the whole rep on a faster rep will be FAR higher then a slow rep, as worked out in one way, which is another part to this question.

Just look at G-forces, they no not drop off, nor does the tension in the faster reps, the only way it could drop off or down is if I was to suddenly slow down the rep, but I do not

But still you have not answered my question.

Wayne

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Raider22

Ohio, USA

I answered the first question earlier in the thread and that is my opinion.

I did not answer the second question because I think using all of the math and formulas is over analyzing something that doe's not need to be that complicated.
Again my opinion about not seeing the relevance of over analysis.
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jeffpinter

California, USA

southbeach wrote:
Wayne,

not all your fibers, and therefore not all your 'strength', is utilized with a 30 rep or a 15 rep or even a 5 rep set til' you get to the last rep.

so why aren;t you using all your strength from the start? why waste effort on a 30, just cut to the chase.. the 1RM?


SB,

You either don't understand the application, or don't understand the physics, or both.

In a standard "slow" set it can be said that only the last rep is difficult, as it is at this point, and this point only, that you are generating maximum force, this force being equal to the resistance. In all previous reps you are generating less then maximum force.

In a standard "fast" set you are generating maximum force from the very first rep, regardless of the resistance used (assuming meaningful resistances). And I might add, maximum force in both the concentric and eccentric actions.

This is accomplished by harnessing Newton's Laws, ie, accelerations and decellerations. During the concentric the load is accelerated upward, increasing the force beyond the resistance used, this force being equal to the momentary maximum possible force on each and every rep.

During the negative, the load is allowed to "free fall" a short distance such that it must be braked (decellerated), this time attaining the maximum eccentric force possible on each and every rep.

Therefore, using this technique, we are indeed using all our strength, from the very first rep.

Jeff

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jeffpinter

California, USA

Drew Baye wrote:
If you are strong enough to accelerate a weight quickly enough to double the resistance encountered

Drew,

This is an unrealistic example, as the load would have to be 50% 1RM, which is much too light.


(initially, after you stop accelerating kinetic energy makes it EASIER to continue),

Kinetic energy is not the correct physics term to use in this case, as it can lead to erroneous conclusions. All that is needed is the speed.

What you are referring to is the fact that if you released the bar during the concentric, it would continue to move upwards on its own. This is true. However, the degree to which this occurs has been grossly exagerrated by many. For example, a load of 80% 1RM, moved as fast as possible, will only move on average about an inch if you "let it go". I have proven this theoretically and empirically.

If any of you doubt this, try the experiment yourself. If you have access to a smith machine, take 80% 1RM in your bench, ram it up to the top as fast and hard as you can, and let go. But be forewarned - be ready to catch it quickly - it will be back in your hands in an instant.


Rather than attempt to increase the difficulty by moving very quickly, why not just USE MORE WEIGHT and move under control?

Because in order to experience the same (maximum) forces while moving slowly, you would need to use a 1RM load.


Jeff

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jeffpinter

California, USA

Landau wrote:
Repetitive trauma to the connective tissue over time with fast repping/heaving movements may produce more force, but the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Some can get away with it over time, (most are fooled by this fact) but in this game the evidence is overwhelming.

David,

Can you validate this? Where is the evidence? I have been using these techniques exclusively for over a year
now, and the only side effects I have are increased strength and muscle.


Addressing the muscles with strategic and relatively slow/smooth movements has always been the safest way...

I agree with you here. Moving slowly is the safest paradigm. But that doesn't mean that moving fast is dangerous. The reality is this: weightlifting is an inherently safe endeavor...no matter how it is practiced. Statistics bear this out. In my opinion the safety issue has been blown way out of proportion, and is a non-issue.


to reasonable muscular gains

I'm not interested in reasonable muscular gains. I'm interested in taking my muscles to the outer limits of their potential.

Jeff

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Landau

Florida, USA

Jeff: My post was not slanted towards you, so why worry what I have to say in general? You can continue to train any way you like. These are personal observations. I have seen long term damage in this industry. Some can, some can't. I don't care to name specifics, it would cause counter claims I get tired of hearing. I am interested in outer limits of my genetics also. You do it your way and I will do it mine. Fair enough?
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jeffpinter

California, USA

Landau wrote:
Jeff: My post was not slanted towards you, so why worry what I have to say in general?

David,

I'm not worried. Just trying to "stir the pot" a bit.



I am interested in outer limits of my genetics also. You do it your way and I will do it mine. Fair enough?

Sure - I agree this stance is fair. But it's so boring!

Jeff

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Waynes

Switzerland

jeffpinter wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Wayne,

not all your fibers, and therefore not all your 'strength', is utilized with a 30 rep or a 15 rep or even a 5 rep set til' you get to the last rep.

so why aren;t you using all your strength from the start? why waste effort on a 30, just cut to the chase.. the 1RM?

SB,

You either don't understand the application, or don't understand the physics, or both.

In a standard "slow" set it can be said that only the last rep is difficult, as it is at this point, and this point only, that you are generating maximum force, this force being equal to the resistance. In all previous reps you are generating less then maximum force.

In a standard "fast" set you are generating maximum force from the very first rep, regardless of the resistance used (assuming meaningful resistances). And I might add, maximum force in both the concentric and eccentric actions.

This is accomplished by harnessing Newton's Laws, ie, accelerations and decellerations. During the concentric the load is accelerated upward, increasing the force beyond the resistance used, this force being equal to the momentary maximum possible force on each and every rep.

During the negative, the load is allowed to "free fall" a short distance such that it must be braked (decellerated), this time attaining the maximum eccentric force possible on each and every rep.

Therefore, using this technique, we are indeed using all our strength, from the very first rep.

Jeff




Thx for the above Jeff, you say things far better then me. Really enjoyed seeing you on Johns video, and what your speed and form on the bench press, was just about exactly the same as what I do.

I imagine on the pulldowns straight jacket exersices. It was for you too use the heaviest of weight and to create the highest tensions on the lats.

The real issue is some people think they know and think they can change the laws of physics, and these people do not understand Newtons Laws either. Sorry you can NOT change the laws of physics, basically on the slow reps you are coasting until the very last rep or two, this is NOT the most efficient way to build muscle stop, you are ONLY as Jeff stated generating maximum force on the lat rep or two.

However on the fast reps we are generating maximum force from the very FIRST rep, too the very LAST this accompanied by three sets with descending reps and ascending weight will be one of the most efficient ways to build size and strength.

Wayne
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Waynes

Switzerland

Sorry bigmike as I did see what you wrote in the other post, dammed I know you and some of the others are right, but just cant help the long post. Think its because I have been a very shy person all my life, and this is one of the ways I can talk far more and get it all out of me, but I will try to cut them down, honest.

Landau wrote:
Jeff: My post was not slanted towards you, so why worry what I have to say in general? You can continue to train any way you like. These are personal observations.

I have seen long term damage in this industry. Some can, some can't. I don't care to name specifics, it would cause counter claims I get tired of hearing. I am interested in outer limits of my genetics also. You do it your way and I will do it mine. Fair enough?


David the other week you said you was a little over weight and on a maintenance program, now you say you are interested in the outer limits of your genetics also ???

David it seems you have a gym and train people, I did not know this until a few month ago, and if you really want to grow strength and the fast reps with Johns program would get this for you, I know you would use both of these, as we all dont want injuries, but I just dont go for you are worried about this, as its such a moot point, as we all do what is needed, be that fast slow or whatever.

Basically you are stuck doing HIT, like a lot here, as its your livelihood, so these is no way in hell you are going to say your are wrong, even if it means you will have to say the whole scientific World and their physics are wrong, you and some of the others are just like the man in the shiny pointy noised shovel story.

All you have got to do is to call the fast reps, advanced HIT, as this is the way Arthur trained, he trained fast, and this is how he gained all his muscles.

So what you are saying is there is far more tension in the faster rep, but you will not do them because you might injure yourself ???

When I was doing the slow reps I pulled a muscle in my wrist, it was not when I was training, but the thing was I could not do wrist curl or curls for over six months, I was constantly in a badish mood, so I really hate injury, but with the faster reps I am not one little bit worried about any kind of injury, because .5/.5 is moving very slow.

Come on David; please try the program one body part for two months ??? Lets get them big biceps even bigger, hey no lets hit the triceps. I would honestly rather be friends then all this.

Wayne

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Waynes

Switzerland

How is this one bigmike.

southbeach wrote:
Wayne,

not all your fibers, and therefore not all your 'strength', is utilized with a 30 rep or a 15 rep or even a 5 rep set til' you get to the last rep.

so why aren;t you using all your strength from the start? why waste effort on a 30, just cut to the chase.. the 1RM?


If the weight is heavy enough, and that would be from 50% and above, and its moved fast enough, you HAVE recruited all your fibers, in just this one rep, this is a very well know and established fact.

Wayne
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johnmin

Waynes wrote:

If the weight is heavy enough, and that would be from 50% and above, and its moved fast enough, you HAVE recruited all your fibers, in just this one rep, this is a very well know and established fact.

Wayne


If this was a "very well known and established fact", then this discussion or any of this debate would not exist.

The application of the laws of physics seems far fetched to me. These formulas are man made to explain what occurs mechanically. For the force equation to be accurate as a measurement, there can be no variables of any type. In muscle growth there are so many variables from subject to subject, that can not be measured and applied to the equation, rendering it useless.

Using force to measure or predict muscle growth is bogus. It can't be done. Physics is not physiology. Certainly you can measure the amount of force being applied, but this is the force applied not how a muscle will react. The muscles reaction is a matter of physiology, not physics.
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