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henry_bordeaux

Hi.
We recently added a Hammer Strength Hip & Back machine to our gym. What can we expect from that machine, compared to Squats/Leg Presses/Deadlifts. Especially concerning running & jumping ability. What are your experiences with a Hammer or Nautilus Hip & Back machine.

Thanks.
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marcrph

Portugal

henry_bordeaux wrote:
Hi.
We recently added a Hammer Strength Hip & Back machine to our gym. What can we expect from that machine, compared to Squats/Leg Presses/Deadlifts. Especially concerning running & jumping ability. What are your experiences with a Hammer or Nautilus Hip & Back machine.

Thanks.


Nothing!

No athlete has ever claimed the hip & back machine did anything for athletic preparation who was not connected with Nautilus.

At best an adjunct to the squat and lunge.

By the way, omni-directional lunges and step-ups work well.
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TOM C

I have a lot of lower back issues and the Hammer Hip & Back is the one exercise I can do that improves rather than harms my lower back.

The downsize is when using standard plates it is too light as the top contracted position. I solved this problem by hooking it to my OME weight stack. You could attach some weights, chains or dumbells to the moving arms that come into play at the end to overcome this problem. I find it to be a real power movement for the hips and lower back and have found negative
accenuated (?) to be the best method for using this machine (2 legs driving down, one leg slowing resisting coming up - do one side to exhaustion, then the other side).

You can also turn you body around (leg pad against the back), put your feet on the pad where you head normally goes, strap yourself in (use a wide belt or cushion)which allows you to do a stardard back extension. I only use this as a warmup as this stage of my back rehabilitation.

I, also, do, front, back and side neck extensions (putting my head against the leg pad) as well as Abs curls(leg pad against my chest which may not work if you are too tall).
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southbeach

You can reasonably expect more complete development of the glutes related to effective isolation of that muscle group.

How will this affect your other lifts or athletic ability .. to the extent that glute strength is required you can expect slightly better performance i would imagine.

Just my opinion.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

henry_bordeaux wrote:
Hi.
We recently added a Hammer Strength Hip & Back machine to our gym. What can we expect from that machine, compared to Squats/Leg Presses/Deadlifts. Especially concerning running & jumping ability. What are your experiences with a Hammer or Nautilus Hip & Back machine.

Thanks.


I have the Nautilus single arm version and the duo-poly version and I wouldn't operate a gym without them. The single arm being the better machine in my opinion.

Full range of motion of the stongest muscles of the body is great.

It along with trap bar deadlifting and ofcourse practicing the sport helped me become the fastest skater on my hockey team. My speed was one of my greatest assests which helped me to Pro tryouts. I was 228lb during the tryouts so being fast at that weight was a great advantage. Should have strengthened my groin more though as a nasty injury took my out for the season.

More importantly though I have found an even great use for the machine. It is instrumental in rehabbing backs. Some people with back pain have little mobility without pain. With a Hip and Back you can strengthen the lumbar muscles isometrically. Also it increases strength in all the surrounding muscles including are modern training today buzzword (Core muscles)
Also I believe there is a pumping effect of spinal fluid in the spine which relieves pain to most almost instantly after a hard set on it.

Use it in conjuntion with squats and deadlifts for best results.

Michael

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Landau

Florida, USA

"No athlete has ever claimed the hip & back machine did anything for athletic preparation who was not connected with Nautilus."

Thank "God" you interviewed all athletes in this consideration and even if you did, would it mean anything? Most of them point upwards after a victory, as if "somone" took time out of their hectic schedule to only watch them.



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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

henry_bordeaux wrote:
Hi.
We recently added a Hammer Strength Hip & Back machine to our gym. What can we expect from that machine, compared to Squats/Leg Presses/Deadlifts. Especially concerning running & jumping ability. What are your experiences with a Hammer or Nautilus Hip & Back machine.

Thanks.


I have the Nautilus single arm version and the duo-poly version and I wouldn't operate a gym without them. The single arm being the better machine in my opinion.

Full range of motion of the stongest muscles of the body is great.

It along with trap bar deadlifting and ofcourse practicing the sport helped me become the fastest skater on my hockey team. My speed was one of my greatest assests which helped me to Pro tryouts. I was 228lb during the tryouts so being fast at that weight was a great advantage. Should have strengthened my groin more though as a nasty injury took my out for the season.

More importantly though I have found an even great use for the machine. It is instrumental in rehabbing backs. Some people with back pain have little mobility without pain. With a Hip and Back you can strengthen the lumbar muscles isometrically. Also it increases strength in all the surrounding muscles including are modern training today buzzword (Core muscles)
Also I believe there is a pumping effect of spinal fluid in the spine which relieves pain to most almost instantly after a hard set on it.

Use it in conjuntion with squats and deadlifts for best results.

Michael

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marcrph

Portugal

Landau wrote:
"No athlete has ever claimed the hip & back machine did anything for athletic preparation who was not connected with Nautilus."

Thank "God" you interviewed all athletes in this consideration and even if you did, would it mean anything? Most of them point upwards after a victory, as if "somone" took time out of their hectic schedule to only watch them.





And which athlete has "pointed upwards" and laid the gold medal at the feet of Nautilus and the famous "hip & back machine."
Share your knowledge and insight with us!
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marcrph

Portugal

bigmikep wrote:
Use it in conjuntion with squats and deadlifts for best results.

Michael



Well said!
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southbeach

Let me put it another way...

If you wanted more complete development of the GLUTE COMPLEX wouldn't complete fatigue in isolation of that complex further your goal?
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Landau

Florida, USA

Marc: Read between the lines on many of my posts, you will understand - it's like a riddle somewhat. I can't enlighten you, you must find out for yourself. Everyone seems to ride on the coat tails of athletes. Specificity
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DSears

Well, I have to disagree from personal experience. I wasn't a famous athlete by any stretch but played high school basketball, track and cross country and ran track in college. In my early 20's I coached high school basketball. I built a knock off of a Nautilus hip and back that used both legs at the same time instead of in the duo-poly mode. I wound up using it in a fashion that I think has been referred to as "hyper". I would lift as heavy a weight as I could on the positive, hold in the contracted position and my training partner would climb on the stack for a heavy negative. Training on the hip and back took my vertical jump from 30" to 36". At 6-0 I could dunk for the first time in my life. I also noticed a significant improvement in my speed and quickness. That was the ONLY variable that changed from my previous workouts. When I left that job I gave the machine to a friend and my jumping went right back to where it had been before.

Louie Simmons and the Westside gang swear by his glute/ham machine but it's easy to see that it's trying to do the same thing as the hip and back in a very primitive fashion and that the strength curve is exactly backward. The glute/ham raise device is another similar exercise and lots of Olympic lifters, Powerlifters and speed coaches advocate using it. If those two machines are integral
to developing speed and strength then it seems logical that a properly designed machine would work as well if not better.


I still believe the hip and back could be the best thing in the world for developing speed and vertical jump BUT it needs to be done heavy, preferably with negatives. Doing the normal duo-poly Nautilus version for 2 years prior to my experiment improved my vertical jump but not to that extent. I bought a Nautilus hip and back off of ebay to experiment with but I cannot get enough weight on it do do negatives and can't figure out a convenient way to raise the weight.

David
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jastrain

DSears wrote:
Well, I have to disagree from personal experience. I wasn't a famous athlete by any stretch but played high school basketball, track and cross country and ran track in college. In my early 20's I coached high school basketball. I built a knock off of a Nautilus hip and back that used both legs at the same time instead of in the duo-poly mode. I wound up using it in a fashion that I think has been referred to as "hyper". I would lift as heavy a weight as I could on the positive, hold in the contracted position and my training partner would climb on the stack for a heavy negative. Training on the hip and back took my vertical jump from 30" to 36". At 6-0 I could dunk for the first time in my life. I also noticed a significant improvement in my speed and quickness. That was the ONLY variable that changed from my previous workouts. When I left that job I gave the machine to a friend and my jumping went right back to where it had been before.

Louie Simmons and the Westside gang swear by his glute/ham machine but it's easy to see that it's trying to do the same thing as the hip and back in a very primitive fashion and that the strength curve is exactly backward. The glute/ham raise device is another similar exercise and lots of Olympic lifters, Powerlifters and speed coaches advocate using it. If those two machines are integral
to developing speed and strength then it seems logical that a properly designed machine would work as well if not better.


I still believe the hip and back could be the best thing in the world for developing speed and vertical jump BUT it needs to be done heavy, preferably with negatives. Doing the normal duo-poly Nautilus version for 2 years prior to my experiment improved my vertical jump but not to that extent. I bought a Nautilus hip and back off of ebay to experiment with but I cannot get enough weight on it do do negatives and can't figure out a convenient way to raise the weight.

David

what about pining a 45lb plate or 100lb plate to the stack?if the stack is too short what about placeing a dumbell on top of the stack?a good machine that is well designed that has enough resistance will build strength effectively.the more strength an athelete has the more likely it will be that he will be better at his sport.weakness never adds to an atheletes performance.skill is for the most part what will determine if an athelete will be great in sport.but strength will give that athelete a chance to hit his greatist potential.
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marcrph

Portugal

Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.
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southbeach

marcrph wrote:
Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.


Ask this as well.. would increasing the moment (AKA torque a joint can produce) about each joint that is involved in a complex movement or lift be beneficial to the net outcome of that lift? well would it??
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marcrph

Portugal

southbeach wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.

Ask this as well.. would increasing the moment (AKA torque a joint can produce) about each joint that is involved in a complex movement or lift be beneficial to the net outcome of that lift? well would it??


Many factors are involved in answering that question.
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SB2006

I much prefer a good Hip and Back machine over a Reverse Hyper machine or a Glute Ham apparatus. Using a Hip and Back as an adjunct greatly enhanced my Squat, Deadlift and Vertical Jump. The Hip and Back machine is just a tool but it is a very good tool if used wisely.
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Raider22

Ohio, USA

marcrph wrote:
Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.


I believe strengthening a muscle that is involved in the skill of running and jumping is prudent. You will have stronger glutes to perform those skills.

I am not understanding your point about motor unit activation? If you create an overload on the muscles that are targeted they will get stronger which is one of the components of power. Specific activation is specific to the skill being executed.
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southbeach

marcrph wrote:
southbeach wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.

Ask this as well.. would increasing the moment (AKA torque a joint can produce) about each joint that is involved in a complex movement or lift be beneficial to the net outcome of that lift? well would it??


Many factors are involved in answering that question.


Obviously you can't come with any
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marcrph

Portugal

Raider22 wrote:
If you create an overload on the muscles that are targeted they will get stronger which is one of the components of power.
Specific activation is specific to the skill being executed.


Is there an true overload of the gluteus in a lying position versus a load bearing position? Gravity may make a huge difference in the mind recruiting motor units. Do you know, or are you guessing, or do you just accept HIT dogma?
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

I found the MedX hip and back to be much more effective than any other exercise for working the glutes and the low back. I have used many different machine versions of hip and back machines and used properly you get a low back " pump " ( with the MedX ) that has to be felt to be believed.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Questions to be answered:

Is isolation for the gluteus maximus best for athletic endeavors such as jumping?

By laying down on a machine and removing the downward gravitational forces off the hips decrease the activation of motor units?

I'm sure there are other concerns as well.


Yes , since isolation or single axis exercise are the most effective methods for strengthening the muscle ( s ) involved , then yes " isolation " is the best.

For example , again for the millionth time , the curl for the biceps , wrist curls for the forearms , direct neck exercise can only be performed in an " isolated manner just to make an obvious point.

Anybody on the site eliminated curls ?
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Landau

Florida, USA

What is the HIT Dogma you are referring to?
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Raider22 wrote:
If you create an overload on the muscles that are targeted they will get stronger which is one of the components of power.
Specific activation is specific to the skill being executed.


Is there an true overload of the gluteus in a lying position versus a load bearing position? Gravity may make a huge difference in the mind recruiting motor units. Do you know, or are you guessing, or do you just accept HIT dogma?


From the start to the finish lying exercises uses gravity in order to perform work. Just because you are lying down or your back , front, or side while exercising doesn't mean that gravity isn't or cant be used through partial or full rom.

If you are trying to say there must be spinal compression in order to perform meaningful exercise , you are wrong as well.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Landau wrote:
What is the HIT Dogma you are referring to?


HIT dogma is anything that flies in the face of all the beliefs and superstions held by sheep who are being shorn of hard earned cash in order to buy the supplement de jour.
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