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Mike Mentzer 1998 Seminar
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HeavyDuty Lifter

Hi two great clips on Youtube from a Mike Mentzer seminar 1998.

Mike Mentzer on recovery.

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related

Mike Mentzer on exercise scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related

Enjoy!
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Captain Puny

Thank you for posting these, Heavy Duty Lifter!
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FiremanBob

Sounds like he's trying to imitate Jones's speaking style, but misses the laconic power of Jones's sentences. Too bombastic for me to give him more than 2 minutes.
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HITTrainingWien

he speaks almost exactly like AJ, but i don't think his primary goal was to copy him, he was also worn out because of his long drug abuse I assume.

i got the whole seminar here, it's quite funny and everything is nice, until he comes up with his consolidation routine, never believed in it and never will... maybe if i will be 50 years of age and solid 230 pounds, then maybe haha
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HeavyDuty Lifter

HITTrainingWien wrote:

i got the whole seminar here, it's quite funny and everything is nice, until he comes up with his consolidation routine, never believed in it and never will... maybe if i will be 50 years of age and solid 230 pounds, then maybe haha


At the end of the seminar he states some of his clients and their success in particular, Will Robertson who doubled his bodyweight employing the consolidated routine. Going from a body weight of 120 lbs to 250lbs, not sure of the time frame! It was apparentley put into Master Trainer magazine? I've searched but cannot find anything!
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Butters

HITTrainingWien wrote:
i got the whole seminar here, it's quite funny and everything is nice, until he comes up with his consolidation routine, never believed in it and never will... maybe if i will be 50 years of age and solid 230 pounds, then maybe haha


I've got the whole thing as well. It's like he spends an hour telling everyone not to believe what anyone says in the field of exercise, but you can believe my consolidation routine works. I want to think I can get results only training 10 minutes a week, but I'm just too psychologically weak to find out.
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HITTrainingWien

One thing is true, you will get stronger every workout because the inroad in recovery ability is so low. But in case of hypertrophy it's a little undertraining. I have also searched for this guy who was supposedly "famous on the net" but have found nothin but a fart.

Mentzer went just a bit overboard unfortunately, even though he trained mostly with AJ's whole body routine and than started to split it because of his job or whatever it was.

anyway, i still like the seminar and the way he laughs at all the fitness authorities.

a pitty he never did a big topic about Dieting besides not taking in that much protein, which I figured out by myself also after few years ;)

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goya

Great videos.

Besides him purposely or not sounding like AJ, I liked his explanation of inroad in the first video.
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paxdill

HeavyDuty Lifter wrote:
HITTrainingWien wrote:

i got the whole seminar here, it's quite funny and everything is nice, until he comes up with his consolidation routine, never believed in it and never will... maybe if i will be 50 years of age and solid 230 pounds, then maybe haha

At the end of the seminar he states some of his clients and their success in particular, Will Robertson who doubled his bodyweight employing the consolidated routine. Going from a body weight of 120 lbs to 250lbs, not sure of the time frame! It was apparentley put into Master Trainer magazine? I've searched but cannot find anything!


OK maybe you can shed some light here. I don't totally understand the consolidated routine. Is that only focusing on the larger muscle groups/multiple joint exercises? Why did I read that it was good for hard gainers? I think starting out on such a routine would wear someone out and should be used after you start to plateau. You might get mass, but don't you need some isolations for arms and calf muscles.

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admnautilus

Washington, USA

The last couple of years before Mike passed away I was trying to set up with nautilus to have Mike be our new spokesman. What Nautilus needed at the time and even now is to get back to exercise and training not just sell iron and steel.

Nautilus was founded on Arthurs and Dr. Dardens writings on exercise- what it was and what it wasn't. It never came about, but I still believe Mike would have been a great addition to Nautilus. He would have been able to be eccintric and motivational. Too bad Bowflex bought us. Interesting aside is Mike was a smoker like Jones. This is one time he should have not tried to imulate Arthur. Jeff
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HeavyDuty Lifter

HITTrainingWien wrote:
But in case of hypertrophy it's a little undertraining.


Hi HITTrainingWien was you talking about both his principled and consolidated routine ? I'm just intrigued to hear from people who have tried it and their results or lack of?
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Bastion

There's an article by Will Robertson about Heavy Duty on trulyhuge.com.I just googled "Heavy duty will robertson"
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paxdill

admnautilus wrote:
Nautilus was founded on Arthurs and Dr. Dardens writings on exercise- what it was and what it wasn't. It never came about, but I still believe Mike would have been a great addition to Nautilus.

He would have been able to be eccintric and motivational. Too bad Bowflex bought us. Interesting aside is Mike was a smoker like Jones. This is one time he should have not tried to imulate Arthur. Jeff


Interesting. I think Bowflex is all hype. I bought a Bowflex Extreme several years ago. I believe the resistance rods to be totally ineffective. What should be say 50 pounds of resistance are equal to maybe a 40 pounds in free weights.

The models they use workout in gyms- not the Bowflex. If Mike was a smoker that explains just another reason to what contributed to his early death.
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Bastion

After reading the article again by the guy who doubled his bodyweight,his name is Sean Robertson.I guess Will Robertson was Mike's nickname for him or something.Again the article is on trulyhuge.com but he doesn't talk about his routine at all.
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HITTrainingWien

paxdill wrote:
HeavyDuty Lifter wrote:
HITTrainingWien wrote:

i got the whole seminar here, it's quite funny and everything is nice, until he comes up with his consolidation routine, never believed in it and never will... maybe if i will be 50 years of age and solid 230 pounds, then maybe haha

At the end of the seminar he states some of his clients and their success in particular, Will Robertson who doubled his bodyweight employing the consolidated routine. Going from a body weight of 120 lbs to 250lbs, not sure of the time frame! It was apparentley put into Master Trainer magazine? I've searched but cannot find anything!

OK maybe you can shed some light here. I don't totally understand the consolidated routine. Is that only focusing on the larger muscle groups/multiple joint exercises? Why did I read that it was good for hard gainers? I think starting out on such a routine would wear someone out and should be used after you start to plateau. You might get mass, but don't you need some isolations for arms and calf muscles.



You're right, it is about Multiple-Joint-Ex which involve the most muscle mass at a time. The Idea is nothing new, building mass in the first few years of training was always faster to achieve if you stick to the basic movements. But, Mike somehow got so afraid of overtraining, that, I think, totally lost it. As he always preached, the bigger you get, the less you need. That is absolutely RIGHT.
The thing is here, that He did not even advice the principled workout to anyone anymore at the end of his era, but only the consolidation routine. Training every 7 days.
Workout A - Squats 8-15 reps & Close-Grip Palmsup Pulldown 6-10 reps
Workout B - Regular Deadlifts 5-8 reps & Dips 6-10 reps

I have no doubt that there some people for whom this will work quite good, but if I had to snap out 2 types of trainees, this would be the one with the poorest recovery ability, or Ronnie Coleman in Naturalmode (just an exaggeration).


as far as the consolidation routine is concerned, I tried it on a client and absolutely nothing happened, it simply was undertraining, I actually also did not want to try to change the frequency down for him, because this guy was so motivated, and a consolidation routine does not motivate someone who has, as a student, so much time for recovery, training, dieting and so on. So i gave him a Whole Body Hit Routine with 10 ex and it worked like the strength potion from Asterix and Obelix hehe.



Hi HITTrainingWien was you talking about both his principled and consolidated routine ? I'm just intrigued to hear from people who have tried it and their results or lack of?


I have been talking about both actually but I try to make my point more clear in this post. Case Consolidation workout, take a look above.

The Ideal Principled Workout worked decently for me. I packed on about about 3 to 4 pounds in like 6 months, mostly on my back and legs (i increased my legs by 1 1/2 inches) First two months, besides strength increases nothing happened, and then boom. it was because I increased the frequency, from every 5-7 days to every 2 to 3 days....
I myself would suggest the principled workout if someone wants to train the MM Way, BUT, there definitely has to be a training partner present that will push u through the workouts and help you get those last reps. Then this routine works good. And, not taking 5 to 7 days of in between but like max of 3 depending on your schedule of course.


nothing against Mike Mentzer, i love to hear his speeches and reading his books, but he definitely had to many nightmares in which Overtraining was haunting him hehe.

just my 2 cents
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fantombe

paxdill wrote:
The models they use workout in gyms- not the Bowflex.


Have you got a link to which model/s you're talking about and their gym workout?
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HeavyDuty Lifter

HIT27 wrote:
There's an article by Will Robertson about Heavy Duty on trulyhuge.com.I just googled "Heavy duty will robertson"


Thanks HIT27 shame theres no pictures!

article:
http://www.trulyhuge.com/...gthtraining.htm
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Butters

HIT27 wrote:
There's an article by Will Robertson about Heavy Duty on trulyhuge.com.I just googled "Heavy duty will robertson"


My experience with the Heavy Duty 2 Ideal routine, is that it was just too much rest for me. The routines were brief and plenty of recovery time is built in, but I would be ready to train again in two days, but I had to wait four days. I moved the Ideal routine to a MWF schedule and saw progress that was just as good and slightly faster gains.

But about Sean Robertson. Below are a couple of links to PDF of the Robertson Master Trainer articles. He hardly looks 250 to me and I really doubt he would be close to being ready to step on to stage.

http://www.msprotege.com/.../robertson1.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/...o/robertson.jpg
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coomo

Butters wrote:
HIT27 wrote:
There's an article by Will Robertson about Heavy Duty on trulyhuge.com.I just googled "Heavy duty will robertson"

My experience with the Heavy Duty 2 Ideal routine, is that it was just too much rest for me. The routines were brief and plenty of recovery time is built in, but I would be ready to train again in two days, but I had to wait four days. I moved the Ideal routine to a MWF schedule and saw progress that was just as good and slightly faster gains.

But about Sean Robertson. Below are a couple of links to PDF of the Robertson Master Trainer articles. He hardly looks 250 to me and I really doubt he would be close to being ready to step on to stage.

http://www.msprotege.com/.../robertson1.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/...o/robertson.jpg


Butters, MM may have recomended 4 plus days, between w/o, but i think he did this, to allow for those who could not recover in 2/3 days.there is nothing wrong in training more frequently, IF you are making progress.Mike was in a no win situation with his recommendations regarding frequency.If like you you can tolerate more exercise, its not enough.However if he had recommended 2/3 days rest(A lot more than in the original HD) and results were not forthcoming he would have been criticised
for not leaving enough time.I train every 4/5 days, as it takes me that long to recover AND OVERCOMPENSATE.
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HeavyDuty Lifter

Hi Butters thanks for the PDF's.

Coomo i see you train every 4/5 days, is this a MM split routine?
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coomo

HeavyDuty Lifter wrote:
Hi Butters thanks for the PDF's.

Coomo i see you train every 4/5 days, is this a MM split routine?

Hi HDL, No, i use a full body. w/o 1=7 sets total, w/o 2=5 sets total.
i trained yesterday, will train again tuesday, IF i feel rested enough, otherwise i just add days till i feel recovered.
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DrFist

Thanks for the links mate!
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marcrph

Portugal

In anticipation of John Little's & Doug McGuff's new book, "Body By Science," I'm wondering if weekly 1 set to failure leg press workout will be prominently mentioned therein.

Sean Robertson, under Mike Mentzer tutelage did weekly one set per workout training and was successful. John Little already has success with one set only weekly training. Also, Little claims to have a new study to promote weekly one set training. McGuff has advanced clients emphasize the leg press with either 1 or 2 additional movements, mostly isolation exercises. Is the cutting edge of HIT to come in January with this new release. Interesting, perhaps foreboding times right now.

Peary Rader would be proud that leg training is getting so much attention from HITers.

Wondering out loud what weekly ESR leg presses might do for one?
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Butters

marcrph wrote:
In anticipation of John Little's & Doug McGuff's new book, "Body By Science," I'm wondering if weekly 1 set to failure leg press workout will be prominently mentioned therein.


I hope they include photos of clients that were successful on a leg press only routine. Because I'm done wasting my time on HIT authors that want to claim their routine will give you unbelievable results and all they have are numbers and no photographs. Mike did this multiple times between the video and his books, Little has done it for Max Contraction, Static Contraction and now he apparently has the ultimate routine, and McGuff does it on his website. Extroidinary claims call for extroidinary evidence. Claiming 10 lb muscle gains in non-beginners in a month is an extroidinary claim and requires proof.

I also hope Little's exercise demonstration models in this book at least look they work out. In his Static Contraction book, none of them looked like they had ever touched a weight.
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Coma

Illinois, USA

Personally I think the consolidated routine sucks. I'm not going to say it won't work for some people but I've tried it and while I did get stronger I got nothing as far as muscle growth. However I do use the "ideal routine". When I first got into bodybuilding I continued to train the way I did when I played hockey. It worked great for hockey but not for bodybuilding. Luckily in the late 90's I came across HD2. I gained over 50lbs' and competed in a couple of BB contests.

I should add that I don't follow Mike's advice about rest between workouts. I get my best results by resting only two days. If I have to take another day or two off for whatever reason it's no big deal, but two days works best for me so that's what I stick to the majority of the time. I think he got too carried away with the reduction in volume and frequency.
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