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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
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The New HIT vs HIT The Mike Mentzer Way
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tdrake15

Hey Guys
Can you tell me what the difference is between the two books and which one you prefer?
Thanks
Tom
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

Mentzer is on the extreme end of brevity compared to Darden.
I would recomend the New Hit over HIT the Mike Mentzer way.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

summa wrote:
Mentzer is on the extreme end of brevity compared to Darden.
I would recomend the New Hit over HIT the Mike Mentzer way.


I'm sorry, but it's not that cut-and-dry. Consolidation Training is only one facet of Mike's ideas --- and a latter one at that.

Differences:

Dr. D's HIT
* Whole-Body Training
* 3/wk for Beginners
* Typically reduce to 2/wk over time
* 8-10 exercises each workout
* No Warm-Up sets (first few reps of set are w-u)


Menzter Heavy Duty/HIT
* Split the Body in 2-3 parts (initially)
* 1 to 3 exercise per body part
* Train every 3 or 4 days to start
* Add Rest Days and Reduce # of Exercises over time
* Espoused Minimal Warm-Ups (get prepared, but don't waste energy)


Similarities
* Single-Set to Failure (SSTF) for ea. exercise
* Intermediate to Advanced bodybuilders may need advanced techniques
* Use Advanced Techniques infrequently and/or only for short periods of time

One thing not emphasized enough is that Mentzer's consolidation training is a form of whole-body training. He simply felt the whole-body could be stimulated with only 2-3 exercises per workout.

I love both The New HIT and Mike's work. However, I would recommend Mike's earlier books Heavy Duty and Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body over the newer ones --- you get perspective that way.

Of the newer books, I prefer The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer over the one you mentioned as I think it presents a better history of his ideas.

Regards,
Scott
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Speaking of Mike Menzter:

Last year, MikeMentzer.com indicated that the classic Heavy Duty Journal was going to be reprinted in a revised and expanded edition. Later in the year, I e-mailed Joanne Starkey asking about the book and she replied that it was "in the works". Here we are in Sept 2008 and still no book.

I e-mailed her today and she let me know that it is still moving along, but that she's had some setbacks with printers (their long-time one went out of business) and photos (getting new ones that haven't been used a dozen other places).

Am I correct in thinking that there would be a big demand for this rare classic to be reprinted and even moreso in an Expanded Edition?

Regards,
Scott
[EDITED]
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N@tural1

summa wrote:
Mentzer is on the extreme end of brevity compared to Darden.
I would recomend the New Hit over HIT the Mike Mentzer way.


x2

I prefer Ellingtons version of HIT also, Im not a huge fan of too infrequent training.
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NATUREBOY

While we're on the topic of Mike Mentzer, if you haven't tried his latest version of the consolidated routine, you might want to check it out. So far, it's been the best routine for me.

Though I've not seen the routine outlined in print until 'The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer', which was released just a few years ago, Mike actually recommended this program as early as 1998. I really think it's great, even better than the previous consolidation programs.

Workout A
Squats 10-15 reps @ 5/5 or thereabout
Pulldowns 5-8 reps @ 4/2/4 or thereabout

(rest 7+ days)

Workout B
Deadlifts 5-8 reps @ 4/2/4 or thereabout
Dips 5-8 reps @ 4/2/4 or thereabout

(rest 7+ days and repeat)
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BeauMann

Iowa, USA

Mentzers' consalidated program represents the bare minimum of training to promote maximum results from training. It works wonders for some people. It works well for mesomorphs and strong trainees. I have more of a ectomorph build so it takes a little bit more work for me. Give it a try, it is definetly a great workout.
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dirtyharry79

has anyone here read mikes hit journal?? i read in it he only took in 1500 calories a day while preparing for the 79 olymia... how is that possible..?? he was on that diet for over 3 months?? was it his aas use that helped him not lose muscle?? i mean the man weighed over 200 lbs ...
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Lioncourt

dirtyharry79 wrote:
has anyone here read mikes hit journal?? i read in it he only took in 1500 calories a day while preparing for the 79 olymia... how is that possible..?? he was on that diet for over 3 months?? was it his aas use that helped him not lose muscle?? i mean the man weighed over 200 lbs ...


Mike apparently had a very sluggish metabolism. He also was doing cardio 1-2x a day to cut for the Olympia. He could do and not lose muscle because he was on drugs at the time.

Old thread flashback. Here it is 2010 and still no Heavy Duty Journal or Heavy Duty 1 reprinted though. I emailed Joanne back in the Fall and got the same response someone did in 2008 about the printer issues. She told me that the printer who did the John Little books was not high enough quality for what Mike would have wanted. I was just like "the look to be as high of quality as my copy of Heavy Duty 2."
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HeavyHitter32

That Heavy Duty 2 book started falling apart rather quickly. I think if you do some searches online, you might be able to find a PDF of the Heavy Duty journal.
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smanjh

This has turned into the 'Chinese Democracy' of weight training books really. I remember a lot of interest in it 5 years ago, and now interest seems to have waned under the assumption it is never coming out. It will do well when it comes out, but a product like this needs that long life span to get the most out of it, considering people will find out about HIT/HD, buy as much as they can, and then usually move on to something else.

I wonder why it needs to be revised? I hope they don't take the original information out. It would be cool if they showed what Mike did, then actually put in what he would have done today based on his comments about it, but simply revising it to make it look like he did do what he recommended in 2000 would be wrong.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

MM's merchandizing page has been updated since the last time I visited (3-4 months ago). Here's wht it said by the HDJ:

"Release date has not been set yet. Please watch for an updated news statement."
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fbcoach

dirtyharry79 wrote:
has anyone here read mikes hit journal?? i read in it he only took in 1500 calories a day while preparing for the 79 olymia... how is that possible..?? he was on that diet for over 3 months?? was it his aas use that helped him not lose muscle?? i mean the man weighed over 200 lbs ...


I had all of them. Read them all at least a dozen or more times. They were GREAT books. Mike's ideas about training and diet (somewhat extreme) were realistic and not marketing tools at the times.

Mike took in 1200-1500cals/day on most days, but soemtimes only 400-800 cals/day. Yes..most certainly it was his AAS use, along with his training and cardio. Remeber, Mike would go long periods of no training, so he was essentially always coming off a lay-off and out of shape. Mike actually quoted his usage/amount of AAS, but probably didn't devulge everything. To his credit, he never denied usage, and inferred this was a big part of his training regimen.
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fbcoach

smanjh wrote:
This has turned into the 'Chinese Democracy' of weight training books really. I remember a lot of interest in it 5 years ago, and now interest seems to have waned under the assumption it is never coming out. It will do well when it comes out, but a product like this needs that long life span to get the most out of it, considering people will find out about HIT/HD, buy as much as they can, and then usually move on to something else.

I wonder why it needs to be revised? I hope they don't take the original information out. It would be cool if they showed what Mike did, then actually put in what he would have done today based on his comments about it, but simply revising it to make it look like he did do what he recommended in 2000 would be wrong.


Just so there are no disappointments, Mike did not train anywhere near like he recommended in his new books. Also, he was really heavy into cardio....like running 5-6 miles a day or biking 20 miles. This is probably why so many get confused when they read his new books and recommendations.
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

simon-hecubus wrote:
summa wrote:
Mentzer is on the extreme end of brevity compared to Darden.
I would recomend the New Hit over HIT the Mike Mentzer way.

I'm sorry, but it's not that cut-and-dry. Consolidation Training is only one facet of Mike's ideas --- and a latter one at that.

Differences:

Dr. D's HIT
* Whole-Body Training
* 3/wk for Beginners
* Typically reduce to 2/wk over time
* 8-10 exercises each workout
* No Warm-Up sets (first few reps of set are w-u)


Menzter Heavy Duty/HIT
* Split the Body in 2-3 parts (initially)
* 1 to 3 exercise per body part
* Train every 3 or 4 days to start
* Add Rest Days and Reduce # of Exercises over time
* Espoused Minimal Warm-Ups (get prepared, but don't waste energy)


Similarities
* Single-Set to Failure (SSTF) for ea. exercise
* Intermediate to Advanced bodybuilders may need advanced techniques
* Use Advanced Techniques infrequently and/or only for short periods of time

One thing not emphasized enough is that Mentzer's consolidation training is a form of whole-body training. He simply felt the whole-body could be stimulated with only 2-3 exercises per workout.

I love both The New HIT and Mike's work. However, I would recommend Mike's earlier books Heavy Duty and Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body over the newer ones --- you get perspective that way.

Of the newer books, I prefer The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer over the one you mentioned as I think it presents a better history of his ideas.

Regards,
Scott


I think you made my point for me and YES the AAS made a difference to answer another question.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

fbcoach wrote:
smanjh wrote:
This has turned into the 'Chinese Democracy' of weight training books really. I remember a lot of interest in it 5 years ago, and now interest seems to have waned under the assumption it is never coming out.

It will do well when it comes out, but a product like this needs that long life span to get the most out of it, considering people will find out about HIT/HD, buy as much as they can, and then usually move on to something else.

I wonder why it needs to be revised? I hope they don't take the original information out. It would be cool if they showed what Mike did, then actually put in what he would have done today based on his comments about it, but simply revising it to make it look like he did do what he recommended in 2000 would be wrong.

Just so there are no disappointments, Mike did not train anywhere near like he recommended in his new books. Also, he was really heavy into cardio....like running 5-6 miles a day or biking 20 miles. This is probably why so many get confused when they read his new books and recommendations.


Well Mike was quite jacked; most reading his books are not.

This also figures in with the low calories (another good point made earlier on this thread) when it comes to jacked cattle a calorie isn't really a calorie anymore but more like 2 or 3; jacked cattle require less than 1/2 the feed and people follow suit.

Suspect there's more confusion with the skin and bones natural athletes who train and eat like Mike and then blame genetics.
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SteveHIT

tdrake15 wrote:
which one you prefer?
Thanks
Tom


Out of the two The New High Intensity training is a better book.

In Mike mentzer's book he thinks putting on 25 lbs in 5 years is something to shoot for, compare this to John Christy. . .

I can take a 5'11", 28 year old trainee who weighs in at 140 pounds and by the time his 31st birthday rolls around he will weigh in the neighborhood of 240 pounds with the strength to match.


Buy John Christys book Real Strength Real Muscle!!!
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Tomislav

New York, USA

stevehit wrote:
tdrake15 wrote:
which one you prefer?
Thanks
Tom

Out of the two The New High Intensity training is a better book.

In Mike mentzer's book he thinks putting on 25 lbs in 5 years is something to shoot for, compare this to John Christy. . .

I can take a 5'11", 28 year old trainee who weighs in at 140 pounds and by the time his 31st birthday rolls around he will weigh in the neighborhood of 240 pounds with the strength to match.


Buy John Christys book Real Strength Real Muscle!!!


I liked Christy's site; think his quote is a lot more genuine than the promises of 6 week/6 month transformations. Still some hyperbole, think his 5'11 athlete is more likely going to start out closer to 160 lbs and end closer to 220 but that's still a lot of muscle and three years is a much more realistic timeframe.

Christy's selling real training results - curious how he will fare against those who promise results in 6 weeks/6 months.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Man, if Mentzer was only eating 800--1500 calories a day and running 5 miles a day or biking 20 his metabolism must have been snail slow!!
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southbeach

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Man, if Mentzer was only eating 800--1500 calories a day and running 5 miles a day or biking 20 his metabolism must have been snail slow!!


that is physically impossible.

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smanjh

Your forgetting about his amphetamine use at the time. If you have ever experimented with them one way or another, you would understand it was possible.

Still, how he kept his bodyweight even on steroids is a mystery.

I suspect he overestimated his distance and so forth by a long shot, just like he would exaggerate his client's growth.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

smanjh wrote:
Your forgetting about his amphetamine use at the time. If you have ever experimented with them one way or another, you would understand it was possible.

Still, how he kept his bodyweight even on steroids is a mystery.

I suspect he overestimated his distance and so forth by a long shot, just like he would exaggerate his client's growth.


==Scott==
Mike was on so much crap in those days that it's like comparing Roy Rogers to Elvis. To look at what Mentzer would do and compare it to what you do is like comparing what you do to workout and what King Kong might do, ha ha. No relation to normalacy..
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Turpin

Tomislav wrote:
fbcoach wrote:
smanjh wrote:
This has turned into the 'Chinese Democracy' of weight training books really. I remember a lot of interest in it 5 years ago, and now interest seems to have waned under the assumption it is never coming out.

It will do well when it comes out, but a product like this needs that long life span to get the most out of it, considering people will find out about HIT/HD, buy as much as they can, and then usually move on to something else.

I wonder why it needs to be revised? I hope they don't take the original information out. It would be cool if they showed what Mike did, then actually put in what he would have done today based on his comments about it, but simply revising it to make it look like he did do what he recommended in 2000 would be wrong.

Just so there are no disappointments, Mike did not train anywhere near like he recommended in his new books. Also, he was really heavy into cardio....like running 5-6 miles a day or biking 20 miles. This is probably why so many get confused when they read his new books and recommendations.

Well Mike was quite jacked; most reading his books are not.

This also figures in with the low calories (another good point made earlier on this thread) when it comes to jacked cattle a calorie isn't really a calorie anymore but more like 2 or 3; jacked cattle require less than 1/2 the feed and people follow suit.

Suspect there's more confusion with the skin and bones natural athletes who train and eat like Mike and then blame genetics.


Good points `Tomislav` , and Mike always re-iterated that his routines were `not the guarantee of a Mr America physique , but they would allow you realise gains as dictated by the limits of your genetic potential`.

IMO It is no good constantly stating Mike did not train as he later advocated , as Mikes later works ( consolidation training & recuperative studies ) were in my opinion most certainly geared around the drug free trainee from studies with his growing PT clients and not the `competitive` bodybuilder ... and they work !!

T.

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fbcoach

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Man, if Mentzer was only eating 800--1500 calories a day and running 5 miles a day or biking 20 his metabolism must have been snail slow!!


A lot was due to the aromatization of the particular AAS he chose to use. These types were also great at glycogen loading the muscles, and most of his calories were from carb sources. Mike also talked about unscheduled high calorie days. In fact, a day or 2 before competition, he ate 3100 calories and talked about retaining too much sodium/water.
These pamphlets/books were really good. They were realistic for BB competitors that used AAS. He trained 4 days a week and here was an example of CHEST workout:
Pre-exhaust on Nautilus Chest (2 cycles) (flyes + decline Bench) 1x8-12 incline Press

He also used rest-pause in some of his training cycles
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fbcoach

I forgot to mention, in my opinion, some of the best parts of the book was where he talked about how he was feeling any particular day. I remeber on one occassion, he mentioned that he woke up one morning and felt really really drained, so he basically slept all day and took in very little calories. The next day he felt GREAT!
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