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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

Seemed Like Good Ideas at the Time

Q: Are there any ideas about training that you once thought would work, but had to change your mind about when you discovered they weren't effective?

A: One is high-frequency training. Back in 1982, I realized that, in a doping-controlled environment, training a body part once every five days is best for most athletes. Train it hard, train it heavy, then let it rest. That's when I started making a name for myself in the athletic community.

Back in those days, people trained the same body part a minimum of three days per week. I started to get results with my clients once I let go of that concept of training frequency.

There are high-frequency proponents out there who say you have to train a body part three days per week to get strong. Well, the only thing I can tell them is to put the five strongest guys they've ever produced against the five strongest guys I've ever produced. Theirs will be very weak compared to mine.

Another idea I let go of was total-body training. I tried decades ago and knew there had to be a better way.

Interesting that he agress with low frequency of body part training but not full body training. Love him or hate him he is a guru.
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stevecollins33

When you examine Poliquin's volume recommendations it's clear they couldn't possibly be followed too frequently, e.g. x3 per week.

The so-called German Volume method he advocates often involves 10x10 of compound movements, e.g. squats. Typically this would be followed twice every 5-6 days.
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Butters

summa wrote:
Interesting that he agress with low frequency of body part training but not full body training. Love him or hate him he is a guru.


Training a body part every 5 days is not exactly low frequency. Pretty much every trainee you're going to meet at your local gym is only hitting a body part once every 7 days. Back in the 80s once every 5 days would be low frequency, but not today.
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stevecollins33

Butters wrote:
summa wrote:
Interesting that he agress with low frequency of body part training but not full body training. Love him or hate him he is a guru.


Training a body part every 5 days is not exactly low frequency. Pretty much every trainee you're going to meet at your local gym is only hitting a body part once every 7 days. Back in the 80s once every 5 days would be low frequency, but not today.


That's news to me? I seldom encounter any modern workout programme that doesn't include hitting each bodypart at least twice per week.
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physcult

stevecollins33 wrote:
Butters wrote:
summa wrote:
Interesting that he agress with low frequency of body part training but not full body training. Love him or hate him he is a guru.


Training a body part every 5 days is not exactly low frequency. Pretty much every trainee you're going to meet at your local gym is only hitting a body part once every 7 days. Back in the 80s once every 5 days would be low frequency, but not today.

That's news to me? I seldom encounter any modern workout programme that doesn't include hitting each bodypart at least twice per week.


Once a week is the frequency I see chosen most - and that was in the 80's too.

Weightlifters and routines by strength coaches seem to be more frequent, and that type of workout may be more popular nowadays - I dont know because I dont go to gyms and health clubs much to see what goes on anymore.
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

stevecollins33 wrote:
Butters wrote:
summa wrote:
Interesting that he agress with low frequency of body part training but not full body training. Love him or hate him he is a guru.


Training a body part every 5 days is not exactly low frequency. Pretty much every trainee you're going to meet at your local gym is only hitting a body part once every 7 days. Back in the 80s once every 5 days would be low frequency, but not today.

That's news to me? I seldom encounter any modern workout programme that doesn't include hitting each bodypart at least twice per week.


I am actually reading more about 3 times per week full body workouts being recommended.

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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

In the latest issue of IronMan magazine, Poliquin gives surprising kudos to AJ.

He cited the following as AJ's best contributions to the Iron Game:

* Emphasis on Chins and Dips as upper body workout staples. Of course Arthur didn't invent these; he just made them a prominant part of his ideas.

* Chain Training - Chucky said that he broke bread with Louie Simmons and LS credited AJ as the source for his chain-training ideas.

* Pullover Machine. Also something about 'cam' machines in general, though CP says that AJ's mistake was making the cam's all the same (a problem I think he later corrected, right?)

* Getting people to re-think the training volume needed for meaningful muscle development.

There's one other one that escapes me right now.

I take back some of the nasty stuff I've said about CP in the past.
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Professor Chaos

In my opinion, the divergent viewpoints by highly successful coaches and trainers only leaves one possible conclusion...

The specific program you follow doesn't matter all that much! As long as you're working hard, that is.

I have never followed another program that gave me the results I got with Poliquin's German Volume Training. It was almost magical... 10 lbs in one month easy. Right now, however, I am making very good progress on 3 total body workouts per week.
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

Professor Chaos wrote:
In my opinion, the divergent viewpoints by highly successful coaches and trainers only leaves one possible conclusion...

The specific program you follow doesn't matter all that much! As long as you're working hard, that is.

I have never followed another program that gave me the results I got with Poliquin's German Volume Training. It was almost magical... 10 lbs in one month easy. Right now, however, I am making very good progress on 3 total body workouts per week.


i have never had the stomache to try GVT. It makes everything else look like childs play.

Funny enough my most successful, over the short term, program was the Bulgarian Burst program. I cannot remember much about it besides it being 3x's per week and it varied the sets and reps every workout. Long story short, I had a lot of people accuse me of steroid use.

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coomo

summa wrote:
Professor Chaos wrote:
In my opinion, the divergent viewpoints by highly successful coaches and trainers only leaves one possible conclusion...

The specific program you follow doesn't matter all that much! As long as you're working hard, that is.

I have never followed another program that gave me the results I got with Poliquin's German Volume Training. It was almost magical... 10 lbs in one month easy. Right now, however, I am making very good progress on 3 total body workouts per week.

i have never had the stomache to try GVT. It makes everything else look like childs play.

Funny enough my most successful, over the short term, program was the Bulgarian Burst program. I cannot remember much about it besides it being 3x's per week and it varied the sets and reps every workout. Long story short, I had a lot of people accuse me of steroid use.


I tried "polish pumping training".Fantastic, next i cant really decide between "drunken irish training" , or "Norwiegen Nancy trainning"

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All Pro

coomo wrote:
I tried "polish pumping training".Fantastic, next i cant really decide between "drunken irish training" , or "Norwiegen Nancy trainning"



Try lifting weights.
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Professor Chaos

coomo wrote:
I tried "polish pumping training".Fantastic, next i cant really decide between drunken irish training" , or "Norwiegen Nancy trainning"

Comments like this are why threads degenerate.

At the same time, I agree with you Coomo in that various authors naming their workouts is pretty lame.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Professor Chaos wrote:

I have never followed another program that gave me the results I got with Poliquin's German Volume Training.


If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was actually Vince Gironda who originally popularized the idea of "German volume training" - but he called it 10 x 10.

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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

coachjeff wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was actually Vince Gironda who originally popularized the idea of "German volume training" - but he called it 10 x 10.


The German part, I belive, comes in the weight progression recommendations.

Poliquin has an article on T-Nation about Advanced GVT. He contends that trainees with more than 5 years steady training shouldn't go higher than 5 reps on the high-set regimen.

He recommends shooting for 10 sets of 5 the first workout, 10 sets of 4 for the 2nd cycle, and 10 sets of 3 the 3rd cycle. The 10x5 should be attempted with your 10RM.

It's an A-B-C-D-E-F breakdown with:
* A&D - Chest/Back
* B&E - Legs
* C&F - Arms.
You have two meat exercises each workout (10x5) and two support exercises (3x6-8). Rest periods are 90-100 seconds (longer than Vinnie's protocols).
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the_iron_goose

Like Jones, Poliquin is the type of guy who is challenging and provoking and makes you think. And the fact that he survives makes you want to listen


And I do listen, but in the end the memories of Jones are reflected in the progress I made from listening to him and the memories of Poliquin are of him telling how much better his people are than anyone else's and that I should not be talking to him if I am unable to make the grade...and I hear and listen to him saying that too. ...And I keep listening....and finally hoping...and then I just stop without comment.

I never lose respect for the man though.

I can't say I ever can understand or relate to anything he says.

I keep trying.

Jones was just so easy. Once he got your ear...it was the fast lane to finish and you were left with progress and wondering how the hell he ever came to be...

I never lose respect for Jones either.
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the_iron_goose

Jones was the type of guy who you felt like you were talking to someone real. He would focus on resting and eating and sleeping...I knew I could do those things for sure.

Listening to Poliquin was like listening to a bird...and he'd look at you and walk you up to the cliff and say, " You have to believe..just spread your wings and leap...", and then he'd do it and fly back and land come back and say, "Ok, now it's your turn...NOW YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE....

B E L I E V E

...now think positive..spread your wings...I mean arms and leap off that cliff.."...and at that point I decided that I was not going to be doing what he would say.
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H.I.T. Believer

andrew
it is 7 a.m. so i thought i would email rather than call you this early..I'm getting ready for work..

If you would like the hsquat i will sell it to you..I really have too many machines for my situation and am getting 2 new ones so i should move something..

I have nearly 1000 dollars in the machine, it cost me 880 dollars to buy it and 100 dollars of gas to go and get it..
I would sell it at a loss to you for 850 $$ to give you a deal if you would go and get that medx tricep from Frank in bergen new jersey..I think it is about 50 miles from where you live..

Dave Goalder is coming to my place with a nautilus spta in the next few weeks and could get your Hsquat.
If you wanted to ride down and pick it up yourself we could give you a free place to stay to help you out..

Thanks - got to go,
Rob
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Tom Traynor

I have seen Poliquin twice in seminar--BIG $$$.....Here are some observations:

1). GVT did NOTHING for me. And I got weaker (submaximal loads);

2). He said he had Canadian Olympic women (don't remember what sport) doing 10 chins--WOW! Must be a supertrainer. No. I now have 6+ women clients--mostly mid-forties "housewives" who can do 8+ chins. "Keep on keepin' on" works well (consistent training with decent diet and yell at them a little...).

3). Had NFL player, David Boston as his poster child for awhile and went on record saying he was "clean". False. Banned from NFL for 'roids. Never did answer my question I posed to his site regarding his denial of knowledge. C'mon--Charles IS way smarter than that.

I am funny this way: Lie ONCE and you are done.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

the_iron_goose wrote:
Jones was the type of guy who you felt like you were talking to someone real...

...now think positive..spread your wings...I mean arms and leap off that cliff.."...and at that point I decided that I was not going to be doing what he would say.


Thank you, Sybil.
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the_iron_goose

For sure any day now he's going to write another article and I'm no doubt going to respect him even more.

I'm going to keep doing what Jones says though because I can't do what Poliquin says.
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Waynes

Switzerland

Tom Traynor wrote:
I have seen Poliquin twice in seminar--BIG $$$.....Here are some observations:

1). GVT did NOTHING for me. And I got weaker (submaximal loads);


What was your version of GVT ???

Wayne
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Waynes

Switzerland

the_iron_goose wrote:
For sure any day now he's going to write another article and I'm no doubt going to respect him even more.

I'm going to keep doing what Jones says though because I can't do what Poliquin says.


So you train AJ style HIT, fast reps and high sets, cool.

Wayne
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coomo

Waynes wrote:
the_iron_goose wrote:
For sure any day now he's going to write another article and I'm no doubt going to respect him even more.

I'm going to keep doing what Jones says though because I can't do what Poliquin says.

So you train AJ style HIT, fast reps and high sets, cool.

Wayne

wayne stop baiting everyone who says they train hit with the same shit. you say this EVERYTIME now shut the fuck up.

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Waynes

Switzerland

coomo wrote:
Waynes wrote:
the_iron_goose wrote:
For sure any day now he's going to write another article and I'm no doubt going to respect him even more.

I'm going to keep doing what Jones says though because I can't do what Poliquin says.

So you train AJ style HIT, fast reps and high sets, cool.

Wayne
wayne stop baiting everyone who says they train hit with the same shit. you say this EVERYTIME now shut the fuck up.




No baiting, this is how he did train to get all his muscle. 144 sets per week for 20 pounds and 77 sets per week for 30 pounds all done fast.

Wayne
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the_iron_goose

Who are you talking about Wayne ?
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