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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Mentzer's Consolidation Routine
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NATUREBOY

I really think Mentzer?s last incarnation of the consolidated routine (A: squats and pulldowns, B: deadlifts and dips, 7+ days apart) is the best routine of all time, for me at least. I?m just curious as to how many of you have tried it. Not his previous versions of the consolidated routine, but the one outlined in the Wisdom of Mike Mentzer and the 1998 seminar posted on youtube. THIS ONE IS WAY BETTER.

Personally, I noticed a big difference in strength and recovery even from going from his previous 3 exercise per workout routine to the 2 exercise routine he later recommended. I?ve thought about going back to more traditional routines but every time I think of adding exercises I come to a mental block where I eventually conclude that those extra exercises aren?t necessary. I mean these exercises seem so perfect.

After doing them, I feel cooked! Oh well, just wanted to share in case some of you wanted to try something new.
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gerry-hitman

NATUREBOY wrote:
I really think Mentzer?s last incarnation of the consolidated routine (A: squats and pulldowns, B: deadlifts and dips, 7+ days apart) is the best routine of all time, for me at least. I?m just curious as to how many of you have tried it. Not his previous versions of the consolidated routine, but the one outlined in the Wisdom of Mike Mentzer and the 1998 seminar posted on youtube. THIS ONE IS WAY BETTER.

Personally, I noticed a big difference in strength and recovery even from going from his previous 3 exercise per workout routine to the 2 exercise routine he later recommended. I?ve thought about going back to more traditional routines but every time I think of adding exercises I come to a mental block where I eventually conclude that those extra exercises aren?t necessary. I mean these exercises seem so perfect.

After doing them, I feel cooked! Oh well, just wanted to share in case some of you wanted to try something new.


Im planning to use it when I reach the point of "over-reaching" which I am doing now with higher frequency on a 3 part split; soon as I feel I have got all I can get out of this, I will cycle in the once ever 7 days consolidation program from the wisdom book.

Do that for 2 months or so then back to some kind of split with more isolation movements; I believe it a great idea to cycle many of these different HIT workout programs, keep adaptation from setting in.
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marcrph

Portugal

NATUREBOY wrote:
I really think Mentzer?s last incarnation of the consolidated routine (A: squats and pulldowns, B: deadlifts and dips, 7+ days apart) is the best routine of all time, for me at least. I?m just curious as to how many of you have tried it. Not his previous versions of the consolidated routine, but the one outlined in the Wisdom of Mike Mentzer and the 1998 seminar posted on youtube. THIS ONE IS WAY BETTER.

Personally, I noticed a big difference in strength and recovery even from going from his previous 3 exercise per workout routine to the 2 exercise routine he later recommended. I?ve thought about going back to more traditional routines but every time I think of adding exercises I come to a mental block where I eventually conclude that those extra exercises aren?t necessary. I mean these exercises seem so perfect.

After doing them, I feel cooked! Oh well, just wanted to share in case some of you wanted to try something new.


Wait till you try leg press one week, next week dips, and next week chins. One set per week! Killer workout on a low calorie diet!
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

NATUREBOY wrote:
I really think Mentzer?s last incarnation of the consolidated routine (A: squats and pulldowns, B: deadlifts and dips, 7+ days apart) is the best routine of all time, for me at least. I?m just curious as to how many of you have tried it. Not his previous versions of the consolidated routine, but the one outlined in the Wisdom of Mike Mentzer and the 1998 seminar posted on youtube. THIS ONE IS WAY BETTER.

Personally, I noticed a big difference in strength and recovery even from going from his previous 3 exercise per workout routine to the 2 exercise routine he later recommended. I?ve thought about going back to more traditional routines but every time I think of adding exercises I come to a mental block where I eventually conclude that those extra exercises aren?t necessary. I mean these exercises seem so perfect.

After doing them, I feel cooked! Oh well, just wanted to share in case some of you wanted to try something new.


I tried it a couple years ago. I found my body de-conditioned a great deal. I was unable to gain muscle on the program. If it works for you that is great. All the best.

Michael
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thilmersen

I tried it for about two years and even had a series of telephone consultations with Mentzer during the period. I got a lot stronger, but noticed virtually no increase in muscle mass.

MM told me that I needed to eat 500 calories more per day, which boosted my bodyweight but also made me considerably fatter.

Mentzer's approach seemed to be that if his recommendations didn't work, you had to suffer from some mysterious illness.

After that, I have made extremely good progress with Brian Johnston's Jreps, where I noticed a rapid improvement in muscle mass along with increasing strength. So I clearly did not have any "mysterious illness".
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Ciccio

thilmersen wrote:
I tried it for about two years and even had a series of telephone consultations with Mentzer during the period. I got a lot stronger, but noticed virtually no increase in muscle mass.

MM told me that I needed to eat 500 calories more per day, which boosted my bodyweight but also made me considerably fatter.

Mentzer's approach seemed to be that if his recommendations didn't work, you had to suffer from some mysterious illness.

After that, I have made extremely good progress with Brian Johnston's Jreps, where I noticed a rapid improvement in muscle mass along with increasing strength. So I clearly did not have any "mysterious illness".


Not saying that this type of training will result in hypertrophy for everybody but you can't increase strength(muscular torque) for 2 years just due to neurological adaption (skill) without building any lean mass. Impossible!
It's only possible with alteration of exercise form.

Franco




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thilmersen

My hypothesis is that people with specific response-type muscles, who respond well to isolation exercises, can gain a lot of strength and little muscle mass on compound exercises.

Such a person will only get stronger in a small range of motion. I assume he would gain less muscle than a person with GR-type muscles on the same exercises.

I have always noticed that the carry-over from one exercise to another is very low when I am using compound exercises.
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

For most people, they will get stronger on the routine but will not gain size. Eventually however, you will get weaker and fatter due to an ever increasing recovery time. This is a step in the wrong direction.
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Law&Order

Ciccio wrote:
Not saying that this type of training will result in hypertrophy for everybody but you can't increase strength(muscular torque) for 2 years just due to neurological adaption (skill) without building any lean mass. Impossible!
It's only possible with alteration of exercise form.

Franco


The resulting hypertrophy would, i assume, be consistent with myofibrillar hypertrophy - there's certainly not adequate enough work for favourable protein degradation (as seen with more traditional BB programs).
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Law&Order

summa wrote:
For most people, they will get stronger on the routine but will not gain size. Eventually however, you will get weaker and fatter due to an ever increasing recovery time. This is a step in the wrong direction.


If apply Mentzer's consolidation program it would be wise to cycle caloric intake.
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coomo

summa wrote:
For most people, they will get stronger on the routine but will not gain size. Eventually however, you will get weaker and fatter due to an ever increasing recovery time. This is a step in the wrong direction.

oh yeah naturally, PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE EXERCISE is reknown for making trainees weaker and fatter.
you must have real issues with training hard.Dont be so bitter , not everyone can master it. x

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gmlongo

Connecticut, USA

summa wrote:
For most people, they will get stronger on the routine but will not gain size. Eventually however, you will get weaker and fatter due to an ever increasing recovery time. This is a step in the wrong direction.


Why would you get fatter? People say this often, but it has no basis in reality.
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summaHIT

Ontario, CAN

gmlongo wrote:
summa wrote:
For most people, they will get stronger on the routine but will not gain size. Eventually however, you will get weaker and fatter due to an ever increasing recovery time. This is a step in the wrong direction.

Why would you get fatter? People say this often, but it has no basis in reality.


The weight gain comes from eating the same calories but obviously expending less calories since you are working out less. There is also something about thinking you need to eat big to recover from the intense exercise. I know I felt like I should be putting on a pound of muscle a day since the workout was so intense and my muscle were always sore. You tend to not limit calories when you feel that way.
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gmlongo

Connecticut, USA

summa wrote:
The weight gain comes from eating the same calories but obviously expending less calories since you are working out less. There is also something about thinking you need to eat big to recover from the intense exercise. I know I felt like I should be putting on a pound of muscle a day since the workout was so intense and my muscle were always sore. You tend to not limit calories when you feel that way.


Ok, so the issue of gaining fat is not because of the routine, it is because of the diet not being adjusted appropriately. As is the case with all routines.
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spud

Workouts like this will prove completely unproductive for some people, just as the 20+ sets per body part, 5 day a week split routines would.

Both this and the high volume split routines fall at opposite ends of the bell shaped curve. Most folks are in the big bit in the middle.

You get someone performing 2 sets per week but attempting to eat a large caloric surplus in order to build muscle.

The workout is too brief and doesn't expend many calories. Most of the excess calories cause fat gain. Overeating on such a low volume and frequency of exercise is likely to lead to fat gain more than muscle gain.

I'll take it to the extreme to prove a point.

Imagine putting someone on the ultimate bulk up diet super high calorie diet and then telling them to only train twice a year.

Now that is a silly example, just to get the point across.

For some, this consolidation routine may work but I personally need more volume and frequency i.e. 8 sets twice a week.
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H.I.T. Believer

what about supplementing the menzer routine with moderate walking.

Moderate walking of 8-10 miles a week would burn about 800 calories whcih should more than make up for the loss of caloric expenditure resulting from missing your 2nd and 3rd weekly workout..

Furthermore, the increased basal metabolism resulting from increased muscle mass should at worst be no different and at best might even increase due to increased strenght and muscle mass.

Finally, walking should not be a stressful on your recovery ability as a more intense aerobic style workout would be..

What do you all think, Mentzer's consoldation routine plus moderate walking for fat control ?????
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spud

I don't mean to be abrupt or harsh, but is moderate walking really going to do anything for fat control?

You'll only burn significant calories through moderate walking if you're obese.

Don't get me wrong, if you walk to work or or in order to mentally relax and de-stress, it's fine, but going walking with the intention of burning calories/losing weight is a slippery slope.
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howard1976

No! Just eat less!! Why is that so hard to do??
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marcrph

Portugal

spud wrote:
Workouts like this will prove completely unproductive for some people, just as the 20+ sets per body part, 5 day a week split routines would.

Both this and the high volume split routines fall at opposite ends of the bell shaped curve. Most folks are in the big bit in the middle.

You get someone performing 2 sets per week but attempting to eat a large caloric surplus in order to build muscle.

The workout is too brief and doesn't expend many calories. Most of the excess calories cause fat gain. Overeating on such a low volume and frequency of exercise is likely to lead to fat gain more than muscle gain.

I'll take it to the extreme to prove a point.

Imagine putting someone on the ultimate bulk up diet super high calorie diet and then telling them to only train twice a year.

Now that is a silly example, just to get the point across.

For some, this consolidation routine may work but I personally need more volume and frequency i.e. 8 sets twice a week.


Your opinions have been read and ignored!
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H.I.T. Believer

spud:
your not harse, and yes walking DEFINATELY BURNS FAT..

1st, you burn nearly as many calories by walking a mile as you do running a mile - the difference is no more than 20 percent in calorie expenditure.
An average size person will burn between 60-80 calories per mile, more for heavier people.

2nd, losing fat is simply a matter of more calories burned verses calories consumed, the way you burn your calories is not signifigant be it walking,running,biking,step clas etc..
Walking is a safe effective way of losing fat- doesn't even matter the speed very much at which you walkas far as calorie expenditure is concerned.

3rd, walking at a faster pace is probably more aerobic than alot of other aerobic routines including many styles of running..Hard running can easily turn on the anaerobic metabolism if not careful..
Walking is a pure aerobic exercise.

The caloric expendeture from weight training isn't necessarly very much and alot of that comes from glycogen and glucose as it is anaerobic. [still, a calorie is a calorie as previously discussed]

The real benifit from weight training as far as fat burning goes, comes from the gradual increase in basic metabloic rate which only increases as muscle mass increases. Most of the calorie burning resulting from weight training comes from a higher metabolism due to the increased muscle mass.
This comes from a higher BMR and occurs at all times , even while you are laying on a sofa and doing nothing


Conclusion:
Strategy for fat loss:

1-weight training to increase BMR, thus the frequency of how often you train is really insignifigant in the broader picture of calorie expenditure

2- diet slightly to insure fat loss but be careful not too diet too harshly to avoid interfering with number 1

3- add moderate aerobic activity to further burn extra calories in an aerobic fashion without risking overtraining for your weightlifting

Walking is an excellent way to accomplish number 3
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Professor Chaos

I tried the consolidated routine from Heavy Duty II a few years ago, and it did not work well. This is even more abbreviated, however.

Please keep us posted on your results. I am curious how you will do.

Marc, what has your progress been like on the one set per week system? Am I correct in thinking that the 3 exercises you mentioned are the only ones you rotate between?

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marcrph

Portugal

Professor Chaos wrote:
I tried the consolidated routine from Heavy Duty II a few years ago, and it did not work well. This is even more abbreviated, however.

Please keep us posted on your results. I am curious how you will do.

Marc, what has your progress been like on the one set per week system? Am I correct in thinking that the 3 exercises you mentioned are the only ones you rotate between?



I had very good success with a few exercises a week for several people that I have trained. (They were all obese, and were placed on a 1200 cal diet!) You must first admit that exercise is not required for health.

I know it hurts to admit that exercise is not necessary, but it is the stimulus for growth that triggers the body into remodeling itself. Not much stimulus is required for remodeling to take place.

Secondly, exercise increases hunger, and increases cortisol, both not very good for a splendid physique and enjoyable living. How much exercise is then required? No one really knows, do they?

I've personally been down to 2 exercises a week, and what did I get, my body responded by never feeling hunger, also I was notably less stressed, and I slept much better and longer. My muscles started feeling plumped out! I felt as if I was growing, and I was with a 1/2 inch on the arms.

I am now going to go to 1 exercise a week. I don't like being sore, wiped out, stressed out or very hungry! I am going to control my exercise, and not let exercise be an addictive habit whereas I must always feel the need to exercise or fell shamed. No Way Jose!

A human man has limits, and humility in a man can lead to great things. Admit your body's training limits, and the rest will be easy!

I like many exercises, and try many different experiments, but not to failure, as I just try things.

I like hack squats over leg presses! I love pull downs over rows! I love the Nautilus decline press, and upright row with an easy curl bar! I like my Nautilus OME for shrugs, and calve raises! Trap bar dead lifts, and rack pulls!

If you need to lose weight, which is very stressful of itself, try this:

1) leg press; rest 1 week
2) pull down; rest 1 week
3) Overhead press; rest 1 week

Lots of water, lots of sleep(9 hours)
1200 calorie diet!

You'll have plenty of time on your hands, find a hobby to increase your activity, like taking the wife dancing, mowing an elderly person's lawn!

P.S. Dr. Darden's 5 minute workout is a good place to start!
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Ciccio

Ciccio wrote:
Not saying that this type of training will result in hypertrophy for everybody but you can't increase strength(muscular torque) for 2 years just due to neurological adaption (skill) without building any lean mass. Impossible!
It's only possible with alteration of exercise form.

Franco


I have to repeat myself here, as it seems this simple fact is to hard to grasp for some.
You can't increase resistance every week/second week for TWO YEARS without either 1) gaining lean muscle mass or 2) altering exercise form (and shifting the load too much to other muscles)!
If consolidated and/or infrequent training would be too low volume/frequency for a person, this person would NOT gain strength (go up in resistance) for 2 years without altering exercise form.

Neurological adaptions to exercise(aka.gaining strength without mass)take 4-6, let it be 8 or even 10 weeks, not 2 years.
And fat can't lift!
Albeit it can reduce ROM and help bounce (refer back to exercise form).

Franco
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Ciccio

Hey Marc,

great post again. And I don't say this only because we both like much of the same exercises.;)
I prefer chins over pulldowns though.

Franco
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Greg Roseman

Virginia, USA

Marcph,

excellent post. You nailed it.
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