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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

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Arthur Jones' Latter Advice
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hdlifter

Going through some bodybuilding information I had stored away, I came across a gem I am sure advocates of HIT will appreciate... from a friend who spoke with AJ a few years back. Enjoy!

I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine,
consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure, he said "about the 7th" rep on every exercise. He also said that on the days that I go to all out failure, fail at the 10th rep, at least. Since he didn't tell me about TUL I would just have to assume the 10th rep means at least 60 seconds.
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Waynes

Switzerland

hdlifter wrote:
Going through some bodybuilding information I had stored away, I came across a gem I am sure advocates of HIT will appreciate... from a friend who spoke with AJ a few years back. Enjoy!

I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine,
consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure, he said "about the 7th" rep on every exercise. He also said that on the days that I go to all out failure, fail at the 10th rep, at least. Since he didn't tell me about TUL I would just have to assume the 10th rep means at least 60 seconds.


So this Terry Carter guy that posted here a few times know Arthur, cool.

Any reason you think 60 seconds ??? As remember, Arthur built all his muscle doing extremely fast reps, so would not 10 reps be about 10 to 12 seconds ???

Wayne
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southbeach

hdlifter wrote:
Going through some bodybuilding information I had stored away, I came across a gem I am sure advocates of HIT will appreciate... from a friend who spoke with AJ a few years back. Enjoy!

I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine,
consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure, he said "about the 7th" rep on every exercise. He also said that on the days that I go to all out failure, fail at the 10th rep, at least. Since he didn't tell me about TUL I would just have to assume the 10th rep means at least 60 seconds.


prove this conversation ever took place.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Waynes wrote:
Any reason you think 60 seconds ??? As remember, Arthur built all his muscle doing extremely fast reps, so would not 10 reps be about 10 to 12 seconds ???

Wayne


Fuck what SB asked. Prove this BS, Wayne.

All eyewitness accounts I've read have AJ performing very slow, controlled reps.

Give me an exact quotation from a published source or shut-up. I don't want you degrading this thread like you usually do.

I realize this thread is really more about volume and intensity than rep speed anyway, but I had to call you on this.

Remember: Short and Concise or don't answer at all!
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physcult

simon-hecubus wrote:

All eyewitness accounts I've read have AJ performing very slow, controlled reps.

Give me an exact quotation from a published source or shut-up. I don't want you degrading this thread like you usually do.

I realize this thread is really more about volume and intensity than rep speed anyway, but I had to call you on this.

Remember: Short and Concise or don't answer at all!


Ken Hutchins claimed AJ became one of the boys in the gym and performed fast reps (in the superslow manual I think or on the old superslow website) and that Gary Jones performed lightening fast reps. IMO slow reps has taken on an all together different meaning post-superslow.
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skrewdriver

simon-hecubus wrote:
Wayne cant prove jack shit

Waynes wrote:
Any reason you think 60 seconds ??? As remember, Arthur built all his muscle doing extremely fast reps, so would not 10 reps be about 10 to 12 seconds ???

Wayne

Fuck what SB asked. Prove this BS, Wayne.

All eyewitness accounts I've read have AJ performing very slow, controlled reps.

Give me an exact quotation from a published source or shut-up. I don't want you degrading this thread like you usually do.

I realize this thread is really more about volume and intensity than rep speed anyway, but I had to call you on this.

Remember: Short and Concise or don't answer at all!


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physcult

simon-hecubus wrote:


All eyewitness accounts I've read have AJ performing very slow, controlled reps.



I read somewhere he was stoic when he trained and it looked as if he was putting no effort into it.
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HeavyHitter32

Not sure about how Jones trained, but if you watch these Nautlius training videos with Boyer Coe he's using fairly quick reps.

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related
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Waynes

Switzerland

simon-hecubus wrote:
Waynes wrote:
Any reason you think 60 seconds ??? As remember, Arthur built all his muscle doing extremely fast reps, so would not 10 reps be about 10 to 12 seconds ???

Wayne

Fuck what SB asked. Prove this BS, Wayne.


Well Simon the piemon swore !!! boohoo.

Southbeach was not talking about what I said.

simon-hecubus wrote:
All eyewitness accounts I've read have AJ performing very slow, controlled reps.


You give me an exact quotation from a published source, or him training someone on video performing very slow, controlled reps, or shut-up.

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Not sure about how Jones trained, but if you watch these Nautlius training videos with Boyer Coe he's using fairly quick reps.

http://www.youtube.com/...related


Yes these are fast rep Mentzer HIT style.

Thought there was a video of Arthur training Boyer ???

simon-hecubus wrote:
Give me an exact quotation from a published source or shut-up. I don't want you degrading this thread like you usually do.

I realize this thread is really more about volume and intensity than rep speed anyway, but I had to call you on this.

Remember: Short and Concise or don't answer at all!


By Arthur Jones himself,
The Arthur Jones Collection
Nautilus Bulletin #2
37
Proper Form,

It is not, however, necessary nor desirable -- to use an extremely slow speed of movement during the first few reps of a set; if, for example, you could curl a barbell in one-third of a second, then it is not necessary to restrict your speed to a point where the first rep takes two or three seconds -- instead, perform the movement at a speed where perhaps one second is required for the complete "upwards" movement.

But it should be remembered that best training results will ALWAYS be produced when exercises are performed with as much speed as possible under the proper conditions.

During a recent workout, one of our test subjects was accurately tested while generating slightly over three horsepower; disregarding the power required for raising a good part of his own bodyweight, he raised 275 pounds a distance of over two feet in less than one third of a second.

Cheating methods should never be used -- on the contrary, they; should be used, they should be used in almost every set, and in every exercise where they can be used to an advantage; but they should be used only at the end of a set.

Wayne



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hdlifter

southbeach wrote:
hdlifter wrote:
Going through some bodybuilding information I had stored away, I came across a gem I am sure advocates of HIT will appreciate... from a friend who spoke with AJ a few years back. Enjoy!

I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine,
consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure, he said "about the 7th" rep on every exercise. He also said that on the days that I go to all out failure, fail at the 10th rep, at least. Since he didn't tell me about TUL I would just have to assume the 10th rep means at least 60 seconds.

prove this conversation ever took place.


WHAAA! I share something I thought most would enjoy, from a friend who spoke to Arthur, yet you think I lied about it? Huh... you think I get some financial kickback only known between me and Nautilus. Take it for what it is... believe it or ignore it, makes no difference to me.
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Larry T

North Carolina, USA

hdlifter wrote:
southbeach wrote:
hdlifter wrote:
Going through some bodybuilding information I had stored away, I came across a gem I am sure advocates of HIT will appreciate... from a friend who spoke with AJ a few years back. Enjoy!

I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine, consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure, he said "about the 7th" rep on every exercise.

He also said that on the days that I go to all out failure, fail at the 10th rep, at least. Since he didn't tell me about TUL I would just have to assume the 10th rep means at least 60 seconds.

prove this conversation ever took place.

WHAAA! I share something I thought most would enjoy, from a friend who spoke to Arthur, yet you think I lied about it? Huh... you think I get some financial kickback only known between me and Nautilus. Take it for what it is... believe it or ignore it, makes no difference to me.


Ignore southbiatch. When he proves he's ever been inside a gym, perhaps then he can demand proof of anything.
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BobGeorge

hdlifter wrote:
...I spoke to Arthur Jones on the phone, and what he recommended me what almost exactly what he said about what he told Terry Carter. He recommended me to train twice a week (whole body routine, consisting of 7-8 sets) first work out taking everything to failure and the next(about 4-days later) do the same routine but just a couple reps of failure...


Very interesting stuff. Thanks.

I assume that the last sentence above should read "do the same routine but stop a couple of reps short of failure."?




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FortCollinsFan

hdlifter,

Thank you for posting the details of your friend's conversation. To the mentally lucid, your story is spot on. For the doubters, well you see how fast they destroy a good thread.

Thanks again.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

By Arthur Jones, in Nautilus Bulletin 1:

"Every repetition of every set of most exercises should be performed as fast as possible - consistent with proper form and safety considerations; which latter point can be disregarded if the selected resistance is proper for the movement being performed.

Insofar as safety is concerned, no additional element of risk will be introduced if the weight is heavy enough - but if the weight is too light for the movement being performed, then some danger of injury will be added.

For example: in performing standing presses with a barbell - or any other kind of presses - if the weight is too light, and if the lift is performed with maximum possible speed of movement, then the elbow tendon attachments may be damaged seriously.

Exactly similar injuries occur with rather great frequency in baseball - when a pitcher "throws his arm out."

A fast lift involving too little resistance will tend to keep moving at the high point of the movement, and the
resulting jerk can cause damage.

But if the selected weight is heavy enough, then little or no danger will exist - the bar will stop at or very near the proper high point regardless of how fast the subject attempts to press it."

Certainly an interesting perspective from none other than Jones himself.
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hdlifter

Thanks guys! I don't usually get involved with forums much any longer, seeing all the nonsense and "know alls" that troll them. And I don't often get my back up by a wanna-be, but the post was done, on an APPROPRIATE SITE (it is hardly an Arnold tribute site), to show what AJ was thinking towards the end of his days... nothing sinister, nothing more.

My friend was thrilled he was due to talk with Arthur, and as soon as he could he related the interaction back to me. We lost contact soon after, but he was keen to apply Arthur's principles,as I did with great success!

Glad to see a few saw it for what it was... the doubting Thomas's need to re-evaluate thier mindsets as not everyone lies on the Net, and sometimes there are people who actually ENJOY sharing and helping others (like the sites owner for example).
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kayo

hdlifter wrote:
WHAAA! I share something I thought most would enjoy, from a friend who spoke to Arthur, yet you think I lied about it?

Huh... you think I get some financial kickback only known between me and Nautilus. Take it for what it is... believe it or ignore it, makes no difference to me.


Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to pass on information the rest of us would have otherwise not been privy to learning. Bits and pieces of information such as you've offered have their way of becoming pieces of a larger puzzle as they're reported and assembled in the fertile grounds of human imagination.

As for detracting statements, we'd all do well to simply ignore such persons - which is to say not to recognize much less dignify peurility and emotional disfunction with reponses they feed on. The rest of us find satisfaction in exchanging ideas, insights, training experience in an adult manner.

Again, thank you for contributing to the betterment of us all.

best regards,
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notinheritable

To be honest, I don't really see the usefullness of the second set, also I've never seen anyone who is associated with Arthur Jones train slowly. Can someone post a youtube link of this, thanks.
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hdlifter

Thanks Kayo I appreciate your sentiments. I wish I had more to share with the forum, but unfortunately, as I said, that is all came up with digging around. But, as I had numerous cd's, there is the chance I have other tib-bits to share, and for all those that appreciated, I will continue to post to the betterment of those here who are genuine.

It is comforting to see there are some quality people left out there. Thanks.
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thilmersen

Well, I think the point here is that AJ recommended two weekly workouts, of which one was NTF. It makes a lot of sense: You get one full week of rest between TF workouts and you get the added "learning"/neuromuscular benefits of doing the exercises twice a week.

When it comes to fast vs. slow reps, I read another AJ comment where he recommended moving in a "slow, controlled" manner for the first reps and then try to do the last reps as fast as possible - although that speed will be slow, given that you are unable to move it fast.

AJs recommendations obviously evolved over time, so it would be critical to know WHEN he made the various statements. He was not God, after all. He discovered new things constantly and had an open, inquiring mind. That is what made him a great success, in comparison to every single one of us on this forum.
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physcult

Ha - the problem is you have suggested AJ advised on regularly exercising 'not to failure' and of course a 'not to failure workout' has no value, because it doesnt build muscle,and it taps into recoverability.

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physcult

Waynes wrote:

Thought there was a video of Arthur training Boyer ???

Wayne


Yes there was a video of AJ training somebody (I think it was Boyer) on Youtube. It looks like its not there anymore. The reps were not superslow, just the regular sort of reps you see many bodybuilders perform.



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physcult

notinheritable wrote:
I've never seen anyone who is associated with Arthur Jones train slowly. Can someone post a youtube link of this, thanks.


I think you mean associated with AJ in the Nautilus days. When the focus was still on bodybuilding and not rehab.

I dare say someone could find associates in the post-superslow period performing slowed reps.

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Olddog99

In 1973 west point, the rep speed was aroung 2/4 the caddence recomended till the supersloww was introduced. SS was noticed during rehab well before 1982 and before Huchenson. AJ openly omitted his training failures and constantly changed his routines when solid evendence was presented that changed his initial thoughts.

look at his progressionary thought pattern, it was in compltete flux, other than the basic princilples, 3 days a week to two and in sme cases less, as fast as posible to slow.
The original post to say it is genuine, sure and reasonably beliveable, even Dr D encourages a NTF day. It must have came from somebody in the HIT infuence circle.

AJ was not a unapproachable God, So good on you for posting, if people are looking for the end all be all of gaining muscle, good also, because it will be a life long endeaver and By AJ acounts a 500 million dollar endeavor.
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thilmersen

Why would a NTF-workout only be a negative? Assuming that neuromuscular efficiency could be enhanced by working out more than once a week, one could get stronger faster - which would presumably lead to larger muscles. The recovery ability would not be much depleted. If you stop three reps short of failure and do 7-8 exercises, you will hardly feel tired afterwards.
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

hdlifter wrote:
Thanks Kayo I appreciate your sentiments. I wish I had more to share with the forum, but unfortunately, as I said, that is all came up with digging around. But, as I had numerous cd's, there is the chance I have other tib-bits to share, and for all those that appreciated, I will continue to post to the betterment of those here who are genuine.

It is comforting to see there are some quality people left out there. Thanks.


Your posting was relevant and appreciated. Some of the responses might indicate that a handfull of followers wish to "contain" HIT to somehow retain a "snapshot" of what it may have been at a particualr period and not what it can be without such containment.

These elements seem to also wish for blanket HIT statements and principles which, given the wide range of goals and training devices, is going to make any such statement "inaccurate", or meaningless.
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