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Gain Muscle While Losin Weight?
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blsarmy

Ive read many articles saying its IMPOSSIBLE to gain any muscle while dieting. So if your say on 1500 cals a day and working out 3 days a week all your really getting is toned right? So no matter how many curls your do or squats pretty much everything will stay same but look more defined of course with body fat goin down?
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WesH

blsarmy wrote:
Ive read many articles saying its IMPOSSIBLE to gain any muscle while dieting. So if your say on 1500 cals a day and working out 3 days a week all your really getting is toned right? So no matter how many curls your do or squats pretty much everything will stay same but look more defined of course with body fat goin down?


All you have to do is provoke a calorie deficit. The bigger the deficit, the faster the weight loss. As for building muscle, I'm proof that it can be done at the same time as creating the calorie deficit. But I didn't diet, I just upped my activity. I did reduce bread mildly. As stated on your other thread, I've dropped, according to calipers, 28# fat and added 4# muscle in 18 months, with no calorie reduction that I'm aware of. I eat dark chocolate every third day, drink pomegranate juice everyday, and even have the occasional malt.

Four pounds of muscle doesn't sound like much, but sit down in front of four pounds of beef filet, no bone or fat, and figure how much that would change your look if distributed over strategic areas of your body. No, not there. Weight lifting won't affect that.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

I made my all-time best muscle gains while on a weight loss diet about 15 years ago.

I ate rice and tuna 3 times per day, and drank an additional 3 Metabolol shakes per day. I ate a total of about 2000 calories per day which is very low for me.

I did that at age 29, after having already trained for about 10 years, so the muscle gain is even more "unusual" in light of that fact.
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blsarmy

I know i sound like someone annoying as hell on here. Ive read alot of Dr.Dardens books and what not, Im just to the point i wanna see what my muscle potenital can be and not so much worried about the weight which id love to lose some more but hell everything i read says diets lead to some muscle loss and i have it in my head why bust my ass so hard in the gym if im not goin to gain anything and lose what ive got....

Any advice on how many calories to cosume to gain some muscle and lean up at the same time? Right now im eating 2800 on off days and 3000 on workouts, Pretty much going by things ive read on the internet, Im not eating everything i see. Pretty much my diet is like this

3000 cals,240 g protein
7 am-Grits with Egg whites
9am-protein drink
11am- 5 oz chicken breast with 2 cups brown rice
1pm-protein drink
3pm-yams with white rice
4pm-muscle milk and No xplode
5pm-workout
7pm-4 oz fish, 1 cup brown rice
9pm-protein drink

Thank you all for all the replies this site really helps me alot.
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blsarmy

Update:

LOL forget the bulk i ate 3000 calories today and im about to puke, I say the hell with that....Im goin to drop my diet down to around 2000 and workout like a mad man......i cant eat like that..Im just goin to go with the flow, workout and eat around 2000 a day maybe less on non workout days and see what i come up with.
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overfiftylifter

Do you have any fruit or veg in your diet?

Overfiftylifter-years ago to cut body fat and preserve muscle mass we used to use a "near" no fat diet. No grains, lots of chicken breasts, white fillet fish, egg whites and lots of veg(dark leafy) with quantities of high fiber fruit(apples/pears)to fill up with and provide peristalsis. Drank plenty of water till near contest time.

It was amazing how much fat you could lose. The theory(over 30 years ago)was if the diet is in deficit in regards to fat consumption with adequate protein and carbs, then the body is more likely to catabolize its own fat storage for energy/hormones etc. The science may not be right but it seemed to work very well.

I went from around 212 to 190 and if I had not been injured in a accident, I would have had a respectable placement in a local contest.
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Ciccio

Most muscle gains on a fatloss diet occure in the first ~6 weeks. Even when it's only 1500 cals (I think for you 1800 would be more in order given your BW). After that it's mostly preventing loss of lean mass.
And that's best done with reducing volume and frequency and avoiding aerobics like the plaque.

Best,

Franco
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stevecollins33

I altered my body composition following a switch to a low-carb diet. I was the greatest sceptic regarding losing fat and building muscle at the same time - until it happened to me!

I would not, however, expect expect such results on a very low calorie diet (regardless of macronutrient content), e.g. 1200-1800, unless you're a newbie to strength training.

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blsarmy

overfiftylifter wrote:
Do you have any fruit or veg in your diet?

Overfiftylifter-years ago to cut body fat and preserve muscle mass we used to use a "near" no fat diet. No grains, lots of chicken breasts, white fillet fish, egg whites and lots of veg(dark leafy) with quantities of high fiber fruit(apples/pears)to fill up with and provide peristalsis. Drank plenty of water till near contest time.

It was amazing how much fat you could lose. The theory(over 30 years ago)was if the diet is in deficit in regards to fat consumption with adequate protein and carbs, then the body is more likely to catabolize its own fat storage for energy/hormones etc. The science may not be right but it seemed to work very well.

I went from around 212 to 190 and if I had not been injured in a accident, I would have had a respectable placement in a local contest.


Yes, I usually have apples or banna's in morning and evening.

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blsarmy

Ciccio wrote:
Most muscle gains on a fatloss diet occure in the first ~6 weeks. Even when it's only 1500 cals (I think for you 1800 would be more in order given your BW). After that it's mostly preventing loss of lean mass.
And that's best done with reducing volume and frequency and avoiding aerobics like the plaque.

Best,

Franco


Thanks for the reply.
Im goin to shoot for 2000 calories on my workout days, drop back to 1800 on off days. I dont eat any junk food anymore at all...pretty much things high in protein and carbs. I know best is dropping back to 1500 but when i do i tend to not make any kind of gains or stregnth at all. I tend to lose fat pretty fast sometimes and sometimes it slows down. I wanted to be huge, But im not cut out to eat like i was goin to try (and did try 1 day). That was not for me.

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southbeach

Ciccio wrote:
Most muscle gains on a fatloss diet occure in the first ~6 weeks. Even when it's only 1500 cals (I think for you 1800 would be more in order given your BW). After that it's mostly preventing loss of lean mass.
And that's best done with reducing volume and frequency and avoiding aerobics like the plaque.

Best,

Franco


Why do you say avoid aerobics? A lot of extra fat calories can be burned off EVERY DAY through aerobics. Do you think aerobics is the cause of lean tissue loss for resistance trained?

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Ciccio

southbeach wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Most muscle gains on a fatloss diet occure in the first ~6 weeks. Even when it's only 1500 cals (I think for you 1800 would be more in order given your BW). After that it's mostly preventing loss of lean mass.
And that's best done with reducing volume and frequency and avoiding aerobics like the plaque.

Best,

Franco


Why do you say avoid aerobics? A lot of extra fat calories can be burned off EVERY DAY through aerobics. Do you think aerobics is the cause of lean tissue loss for resistance trained?



Yes, especially when on neg cal balance.



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southbeach

Ciccio wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Ciccio wrote:
Most muscle gains on a fatloss diet occure in the first ~6 weeks. Even when it's only 1500 cals (I think for you 1800 would be more in order given your BW). After that it's mostly preventing loss of lean mass.
And that's best done with reducing volume and frequency and avoiding aerobics like the plaque.

Best,

Franco


Why do you say avoid aerobics? A lot of extra fat calories can be burned off EVERY DAY through aerobics. Do you think aerobics is the cause of lean tissue loss for resistance trained?



Yes, especially when on neg cal balance.





ok, why? How do you know this?
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Acerimmer1

I would measure your BF and keep your weight fairly constant. I tend to think people are actually burning and building over the course of a week quite often they're just not aware of it because they're not measuring BF.
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pyro13g

Ohio, USA

Dr. Darden has show many times that you can gain muscle while restricting calories. I am also more proof.

I think what you read is just dieting with no moderately intense strength training. The training helps to keep the body from thinking it's starving(for lack of a better word) and burning muscle over fat while it still can.
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blsarmy

At work today i thought and thought about all this and that.. Ive finally decided to cut down to 1500 cal diet to shed some more flab and on workout days knock it up to 1800 . What you guys think of that? Would i lose weight? I work out 3 days a week applyin H.I.T Somedays i split my training though i want lie to get better isolation my my laggin muscles.
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WesH

blsarmy wrote:
At work today i thought and thought about all this and that.. Ive finally decided to cut down to 1500 cal diet to shed some more flab and on workout days knock it up to 1800 . What you guys think of that? Would i lose weight? I work out 3 days a week applyin H.I.T Somedays i split my training though i want lie to get better isolation my my laggin muscles.


You'll lose weight on 1500. Absolutely no doubt. If you do three HIT workouts a week, you'll retain muscle at the least.
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JohnnyD

Overfiftylifter,

Hello! I want to thank you for your advice in this thread. I have been working out twice a week with a training partner. But I was not happy with my overall appearance. I was 250 pounds at the start of applying what you stated and decided to test myself over the holidays. I looked at the labels on everything I ate and avoided items with high fat content. I did, however, still have salad dressing with my spinach leaves. I ate chicken breasts and fruit, and did have oatmeal with walnuts every morning for breakfast. I started on the morning of Thursday, December 24 and have checked results up until today, Friday, January 8.

I must admit that I was on a mission, so I did consume less overall. I did not work out again until this week (was out on year end vacation). I dropped 10 pounds, am now at 240, and feel great. The best part is my gut has trimmed down tremendously, and I want to go further. I have really gotten rid of a great deal of fat. My question is, at what point does this change? How much further and farther can I go? Advice, thoughts, comments would be great!

Regards,
JohnnyD

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dhitquinn

If you dont like eating a large amount of caloriesyou can add 2 of these shakes to your diet a day.

400mls of semi skimmed milk
1 large banana
100grams of peanut butter

Dave
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james pate

Ontario, CAN

blsarmy wrote:
Ive read many articles saying its IMPOSSIBLE to gain any muscle while dieting. So if your say on 1500 cals a day and working out 3 days a week all your really getting is toned right? So no matter how many curls your do or squats pretty much everything will stay same but look more defined of course with body fat goin down?


Over a period of 18 months, I reduced my waist by 1" and gained approx 12lbs of lean muscle. However, my overall body weight increased from 193lbs to 202lbs. March 2008 to June 2009. I was eating much more then 1500cals/day.
we documented the training in this thread http://drdarden.com/...490566&pageNo=4
The measurements and training were supervised by Mike Petrella.
Regards
James

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