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N@tural1

Ok lets see how much substantial contribution to the thread topic of running/cardio you've posted here.

mentzerfan wrote:
That's a pretty ironic statement coming form you!


None here..

mentzerfan wrote:
I just want you to know there's no world HIT conspiracy here! There is no HIT world.


Just HITers that can use any language and attitude and it's fine but no one else can. Still no substance related to this thread..

mentzerfan wrote:
Your posts are just as insulting, obnoxious and anti social as anybody's


Then why concern yourself with me? Still no substance..

mentzerfan wrote:
I already did that a long time ago. Landau is angry because he is having to justify HIT on a HIT forum.


Wrong read the thread, subject is not "justifying HIT". Still no thread related substance..

mentzerfan wrote:
Just out of interest, what brought you to post so much on a HIT forum? Which aspect of HIT are you interested in the most?


Not related to the subject of the thread. Feel free to open a thread and ask these questions I'll be happy to participate.

mentzerfan wrote:
Not really no, as you don't tell anyone what your beliefs are!


You've read VERY little of my posts. Do a search for my old thread title "The truth of Natural2" (old username) all the info is in the first post.

mentzerfan wrote:
What are you passionate about? Anything? As you spend so much time on this HIT forum I assumed you must be really into HIT. Is that not right? Please let me know where you stand!


Once again I have to remind you that this is not the subject title of this thread, do you have anything to contribute to the subject of the benefits of running and/or cardiovascular exercise?

mentzerfan wrote:
I've already stated very clearly why I'm supporting David Landau and why I'm rather suspicious of your motives for being on this board.


Suspicious of me yet you've admitted you know nothing about me, which is it?. And still no thread related material..

mentzerfan wrote:
Well I read this forum and post every now and again because I enjoy reading and training HIT. What about you?


Yet again *sighs* I suggest you either search for the old thread where I posted about my opinions or open a new thread. This thread is about any benefits derived from aerobic training.

mentzerfan wrote:
Are you not a HITer then Natty?


Please re-read above if it's not clear.

mentzerfan wrote:
I've contributed a fair bit to this board over the past four years thanks. The vast majority of it is even "training related'!


Well done. Now can we please keep on topic? Is that too much to ask?

mentzerfan wrote:
Thanks for that bit of "grown up" communication. LOL ROFLMAO. Please let me know if there are any more "grown up" phrases I can use!


Would you like me to PM you all the catchy little LOLs etc I know? I'd rather keep this thread on topic on the subject of the benefits of running etc..

mentzerfan wrote:
Shouting out random insults isn't really a debate you know?


Landau's been doing that for months, remind him of this. You won't.. why? He's a HITer different rules apply.

mentzerfan wrote:
If you want to talk about your life that that's fine by me. Please send me a PM if you'd like to discuss anything that's bothering you.


I'm happy just talking about the actual thread topic right now but thanks for the "concern"

mentzerfan wrote:
On the other hand I don't have a single clue what your stance is. You have posted a colossal amount of times on this board and yet no-one knows your views on HIT.


Then once again I suggest for you to perform a search for the thread entitled "The truth of natural2" and read..

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you, or you planning on training HIT?


Read above.

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you read anything by Jones or Dr Darden?


Open a thread specifically on topic for these concerns of yours. May I remind you about the thread topic here and it's not "books Natty may or may not have read"

mentzerfan wrote:
What is it that interests you about HIT that you spend so long on its main forum?


I'll be happy to contribute to your thread dedicated to these concerns. Right now and here, I'm more interested in discussing the benefits of running and/or cardio/aerobics as per thread title.

mentzerfan wrote:
Perhaps if you made your stance clear you wouldn't create so much bad feeling?

If you do a search for my old thread my stance should be perfectly clear.

mentzerfan wrote:
LOL. Is that any better?


Not really, a lot of pontification and not much in regards to the thread topic. Better luck next time.
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
Why don't you just GTFOTI and get involved in the Research that you support and have never seen performed.


You've never seen it performed either.

Landau wrote:
You cannnot validate something by simply by posting things you have no idea how, when, and if they are actually performed.


You're saying that the NUMEROUS amount of studies are all faulty.

Landau wrote:
Prestigious Physiologists, how the HELL do you know - you don't!


So you're saying all the MDs and PhDs are wrong.. How the hell do YOU know that those that share your opinion are right? YOU DON'T unless there are studies it's pure opinion. Where are their references?

Landau wrote:
People like you exist nearly 100 Percent of the time, I would have made much more Money, if I was a TRUE BELIEVER LIKE YOU. Just because you can pound your chest (TITS) and.......
Research is Payed for, not done for free, and has an agenda. Fitness is a Billion Dollar Industry. DUH?


You can't say that every study that goes against your opinion (and there are TONS) is wrong or has an agenda. This is unrealistic and simply a case of dismissing evidence in light of it clashing with your opinion.

Empirical evidence shows us that regular "huff and puff" exercise makes a better runner, why? Because adaptations for the better occur making a faster more efficient body. This is evidenced by numerous studies and research. Your opinions do not hold up.

Landau wrote:
No, unless there are gross variations, people with inherently higher resting heart rates are just fine - empirical experience suggests that. The Lower Resting Heart Rate Emphasis is Largely Exaggerated.


But the lower resting heart all else being equal performs better. More efficient. FACT. For some, a more efficient heart and cardiovascular system etc.. is more important that stronger muscles, they are not wrong just because you disagree. Welcome to the human race, diverse range of heights, builds, colours and interests.
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N@tural1

Exercise will benefit your body in many ways, including lowering levels of a C-reactive protein (CRP) that is linked to inflammation.

The study.

Associations between cardiorespiratory fitness and C-reactive protein in men.

Church TS, Barlow CE, Earnest CP, Kampert JB, Priest EL, Blair SN.

OBJECTIVE: This study examined the association between cardiorespiratory fitness and C-reactive protein (CRP), with adjustment for weight and within weight categories.

METHODS AND RESULTS: We calculated median and adjusted geometric mean CRP levels, percentages of individuals with an elevated CRP (> or =2.00 mg/L), and odds ratios of elevated CRP across 5 levels of cardiorespiratory fitness for 722 men. CRP values were adjusted for age, body mass index, vitamin use, statin medication use, aspirin use, the presence of inflammatory disease, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes, and smoking habit. We found an inverse association of CRP across fitness levels (P for trend<0.001), with the highest adjusted CRP value in the lowest fitness quintile (1.64 [1.27 to 2.11] mg/L) and the lowest adjusted CRP value in the highest fitness quintile (0.70 [0.60 to 0.80] mg/L). Similar results were found for the prevalence of elevated CRP across fitness quintiles. We used logistic regression to model the adjusted odds for elevated CRP and found that compared with the referent first quintile, the second (odds ratio [OR] 0.43, 95% CI 0.22 to 0.85), third (OR 0.33, 95% CI 0.17 to 0.65), fourth (OR 0.23, 95% CI 0.12 to 0.47), and fifth (OR 0.17, 95% CI 0.08 to 0.37) quintiles of fitness had significantly lower odds of elevated CRP. Similar results were found when examining the CRP-fitness relation within categories of body fatness (normal weight, overweight, and obese) and waist girth (<102 or > or =102 cm).

CONCLUSIONS: Cardiorespiratory fitness levels were inversely associated with CRP values and the prevalence of elevated CRP values in this sample of men from the Aerobics Center Longitudinal Study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...8?dopt=Abstract

Explain the "agenda" there Landau.
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mentzerfan

Natty wrote:
Ok lets see how much substantial contribution to the thread topic of running/cardio you've posted here.


Back to the thread title all of a sudden? This hasn't stopped you before!


mentzerfan wrote:
I just want you to know there's no world HIT conspiracy here! There is no HIT world.

Just HITers that can use any language and attitude and it's fine but no one else can. Still no substance related to this thread..


Again, staying to the thread hasn't stopped you insulting people before so why the sudden change?

Please, be my guest if you want to be ignorant and insulting. I just think it's a bit rich that you accuse others of exactly the same thing you do. Isn't that a case of "double standards"?


Then why concern yourself with me? Still no substance..


I concern myself with you because, as I said, I am more than suspicious of your motives for posting on this HIT board. I am becoming even more suspicious every time you avoid any of my substantial questions.


Wrong read the thread, subject is not "justifying HIT". Still no thread related substance..


I am amazed that I have to point out on a dedicated HIT forum how important the critique to running and other "cardio" is to the most basic HIT principles of Jones and Darden. Do you even know what Jones and Darden have written about "cardio"? Have you even heard of the Westpoint Study for instance?

mentzerfan wrote:
Just out of interest, what brought you to post so much on a HIT forum? Which aspect of HIT are you interested in the most?

Not related to the subject of the thread. Feel free to open a thread and ask these questions I'll be happy to participate.


Why can't you answer such a simple substantial question as this? I think the idea of staying to the thread title becomes important to you only when you cannot answer a question. Send me a PM if you're too shy!

You've read VERY little of my posts. Do a search for my old thread titles "The truth of Natural2 (old username) all the info is in the first post.


The posts I have read always find you refusing to answer why you post here. You refuse to answer if you are interested in HIT. You refuse to answer if you have read any HIT literature and you refused to answer why you are so intereseted in posting on a forum, the subject of which you know nothing about! If I am wrong then please answer the questions now.

mentzerfan wrote:
What are you passionate about? Anything? As you spend so much time on this HIT forum I assumed you must be really into HIT. Is that not right? Please let me know where you stand!

Once again I have to remind you that this is not the subject title of this thread, do you have anything to contribute to the subject of the benefits of running and/or cardiovascular exercise?


Just see above. Your avoidance is more than strange and rather tiresome.


Suspicious of me yet you've admitted you know nothing about me, which is it?. And still no thread related material..


I am suspicious because you seem to know nothing about HIT and yet you post so much on the largest HIT forum on the net. Please just tell me why.

Yet again *sighs* I suggest you either search for the old thread where I posted about my opinions or open a new thread. This thread is about any benefits derived from aerobic training.


Yet again, please see above for the questions you have always refused to answer. Do you even know Dr Darden's views on aerobic "training"? Have you read about the Westpoint study? Actually what are your views on aerobics now you've reminded me? Do you run?

mentzerfan wrote:
Are you not a HITer then Natty?

PLease re-read above if it's not clear.


The more you avoid my questions on your knowledge and interest in HIT the clearer it becomes!


Well done. Now can we please keep on topic? Is that too much to ask?


Well it has been for you right up to now! I don't really understand how you swapping insults is "on topic". Perhaps you can explain?


Would you like me to PM you all the catchy little LOLs etc I know? I'd rather keep this thread on topic on the subject of the benefits of running etc..


No need! You can't resist using teenage text speech in your posts so I'll just wait for the next one thanks. I refer your second point to the paragraph above.


Landau's been doing that for months, remind him of this. You won't.. why? He's a HITer different rules apply.


Different rules apply when people I trust speak highly of David Landau. You see, it's all to do with relationships between real people that I tend to put my trust in. Nobody knows who you are. Nobody knows why you post here.

I'm happy just talking about the actual thread topic right now but thanks for the "concern"


You weren't interested in talking about the thread topic a post or two ago. Whatever could have changed your view?! Difficult questions perhaps?

mentzerfan wrote:
On the other hand I don't have a single clue what your stance is. You have posted a colossal amount of times on this board and yet no-one knows your views on HIT.

Then once again I suggest for you to perform a search for the thread entitled "The truth of natural2" and read..

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you, or you planning on training HIT?

Read above.

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you read anything by Jones or Dr Darden?

Open a thread specifically on topic for these concerns of yours. May I remind you about the thread topic here and it's not "books Natty may or may not have read"


Why not just save time and answer a couple of questions here:

Have you ever trained HIT or do you plan on training HIT?

Have you ever read anything by Dr Darden or Arthur Jones?

As you are such a prolific member of this specialised HIT forum what are your main interests in HIT?

Do you even have any interest in HIT?

Yes or no answers are more than acceptable if you're worried about spending too much time "off topic"! Surely it can't be that difficult for you to answer?

Not really, a lot of pontification and not much in regards to the thread topic. Better luck next time.


Oh the irony! It's so thick I can almost taste it. Night night. Don't go to bed too late will you? I'll be sure to check in tomorrow evening after work.

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N@tural1

So. Have we managed to contribute anything to the thread subject this time? Lets take a look folks.

mentzerfan wrote:
Back to the thread title all of a sudden? This hasn't stopped you before!


I thinks it's only natural to defend oneself when faced with speculation and bias however I'm not interested further in your speculative nonsense about me which has no training related substance whatsoever.

mentzerfan wrote:
Again, staying to the thread hasn't stopped you insulting people before so why the sudden change?


Other than this thread where I've gotten harsher with Landau due to his relentless insults I have tolerated for months now (unprovoked) I ask you to provide other examples of me insulting members.

mentzerfan wrote:
I concern myself with you because, as I said, I am more than suspicious of your motives for posting on this HIT board.


Then talk to a moderator about your concerns. Are you a moderator? No.. thought not. I'd be happy to discuss the benefits of running/cardio with you as per thread tittle.

mentzerfan wrote:
I am becoming even more suspicious every time you avoid any of my substantial questions.


What I suggested was for you to open your own thread dedicated to your concerns about me and not to use a thread dedicated to the discussion of aerobic exercise, as you can tell from my numerous posts actually related to running/cardio, I'm taking the subject matter rather seriously here. If you wish for me to answer your questions I've suggested for you to open an appropriate thread, where was the mention of avoidance?

mentzerfan wrote:
I am amazed that I have to point out on a dedicated HIT forum how important the critique to running and other "cardio" is to the most basic HIT principles of Jones and Darden. Do you even know what Jones and Darden have written about "cardio"? Have you even heard of the Westpoint Study for instance?


Check the original post, did I open this thread topic? No.. so if you take issue with this threads topic, take it up with either the OP or the moderators who have allowed it. It has nothing to do with me other than my participation in the actual threads subject. Feel free to join us.

mentzerfan wrote:
Why can't you answer such a simple substantial question as this? I think the idea of staying to the thread title becomes important to you only when you cannot answer a question. Send me a PM if you're too shy!


How many more times do I have to tell you. I'll be happy to answer your concerns in the proper thread. How you translate this as avoidance is amazing. I wish to stay on topic in this interesting thread. I've posted numerous studies testifying the benefits of aerobic exercise, what do you think?

mentzerfan wrote:
The posts I have read always find you refusing to answer why you post here. You refuse to answer if you are interested in HIT.


I must have missed the part where I was answerable to anyone other than Ellington and the moderators. Who do you think you are?

mentzerfan wrote:
You refuse to answer if you have read any HIT literature and you refused to answer why you are so intereseted in posting on a forum, the subject of which you know nothing about! If I am wrong then please answer the questions now.


If I know nothing about HIT then you've clearly already made up your mind about me so why ask? Again I ask you to point out where in on the site it states that I have to explain myself to other members?

mentzerfan wrote:
Just see above. Your avoidance is more than strange and rather tiresome.


Once again your lack of reading ability is staggering. Who said anything about avoidance? I told you, start an appropriate thread dedicated to your concerns about me and I'll be happy to participate. Right now I'm rather busy in this thread trying to stay on topic. Mods have closed threads before due to subject matter not staying on topic. I would like this thread to stay open as it's a very interesting subject. Feel free to contribute.

mentzerfan wrote:
I am suspicious because you seem to know nothing about HIT and yet you post so much on the largest HIT forum on the net. Please just tell me why.


Again I ask if you are a moderator?

mentzerfan wrote:
Yet again, please see above for the questions you have always refused to answer.


I didn't realize I was answerable to you. Never the less I have stated my interest in training with intensity many times.

mentzerfan wrote:
Actually what are your views on aerobics now you've reminded me? Do you run?


Are you freakin kidding me! Proof that you're just trolling and have absolutely zero interest in my posts AS YOU'VE NOT EVEN BOTHERED TO READ MY POSTS IN THIS THREAD otherwise you'd know the answer to my views on aerobics which would be extremely clear to anyone that had read my posts.

mentzerfan wrote:
The more you avoid my questions on your knowledge and interest in HIT the clearer it becomes!


I'm sure I know not what you mean as I have on more than one occasion expressed my willingness to answer your questions in an appropriate thread as this one is dedicated to running/cardio. What part of "make a dedicated thread" do you translate as avoidance?

mentzerfan wrote:
Well it has been for you right up to now!


But by your own admission you've not read any of my posts in this thread otherwise you'd know where I stand on aerobics and would not had asked. Feel free to go back, all my posts in this thread are related to the subject matter other than when you came along.. Lets get back on track shall we.

mentzerfan wrote:
I don't really understand how you swapping insults is "on topic". Perhaps you can explain?


Perhaps you can ask Landau?

mentzerfan wrote:
Different rules apply when people I trust speak highly of David Landau. You see, it's all to do with relationships between real people that I tend to put my trust in.


Underlined for emphasis. Right, got it. As I thought. It's ok for your HIT buddies to insult but not anyone else when provoked. Just as I thought thanks for verifying.

mentzerfan wrote:
You weren't interested in talking about the thread topic a post or two ago.


As I've already said it's natural for one to respond to a bias post however I would had hoped that my last post in which I invited you to join the subject matter would had been enough to get you on topic, as you can see I've remained on topic every where else other than when I addressed your self admitted bias points. Now I'm asking you very nicely to open your own thread dedicated to your worries or concerns you may have about me where I will be happy to participate.

mentzerfan wrote:
Whatever could have changed your view?! Difficult questions perhaps?


My wish to remain on topic and not digress any further in THIS thread.

mentzerfan wrote:
Why not just save time and answer a couple of questions here:


As I have told you twice already. I am very interested in training with intensity.

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you ever trained HIT or do you plan on training HIT?


Intensity is defiantly part of my program.

mentzerfan wrote:
Have you ever read anything by Dr Darden or Arthur Jones?


Absolutely but once again may I remind you that this thread is not about me, it's about running and/or cardio. Please open your own thread on the topic of me if it concerns you so much.

mentzerfan wrote:
As you are such a prolific member of this specialised HIT forum what are your main interests in HIT?

Do you even have any interest in HIT?


I believe I've answered that.

mentzerfan wrote:
Yes or no answers are more than acceptable if you're worried about spending too much time "off topic"! Surely it can't be that difficult for you to answer?


I've told you, this is the 4th time now. I'm very interested in training with intensity. Now please man can we get back to the subject matter.

mentzerfan wrote:
I'll be sure to check in tomorrow evening after work.


Good for you. I look forward on reading your opinions on aerobic exercise.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Cardio - Word Form that refers to the Heart
Aerobic Exercise - no such thing


Grammatical forms are exactly the things that make us understand the world way we understand it. There is a major malfunction in your prepositional phrases. Academically, You would be stopped after you blurted the first sentence out of your mouth. Your destruction and misuse of words is Typical. When I correct your flaw in your misuse of the language, you ignore it. You need to first understand the origin of the words and phrases you indiscriminately use in order to validate a point.
Your points are then further convoluted by the Research Cards you pull. In order to understand Research, you must know what it means and entitles. Since you accept Research at face value, you have NO ARGUMENT - you would get killed in a debate on any subject due to your ignorance of word definitions and vocabulary. Your points are therefore Null and Void. If something does not exist, then all you have is "intellectual vomitus."
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
Cardio - Word Form that refers to the Heart


Running and all sorts of "cardio" elevates the heart and is generally viewed as beneficial for the heart and associated systems hence the term "cardio" to refer to certain heart elevating exercise.

Landau wrote:
Aerobic Exercise - no such thing


Whether or whether not the term is originally 100% accurate or not is mostly word play. Fact is 99% of the population now associate the term "aerobic exercise" with exercise that elevates heart rate and gets you huffing. Saying there's no such thing is word play and doesn't negate said benefits of said exercise.

Landau wrote:
There is a major malfunction in your prepositional phrases. Academically, You would be stopped after you blurted the first sentence out of your mouth.


Opinion bias at that. I've explained my use of the words cardio and aerobic and am more concerned in the results, adaptations, benefits than playing word games. You cannot negate the research so you attempt to negate me. Desperate.

Landau wrote:
Your destruction and misuse of words is Typical. When I correct your flaw in your misuse of the language, you ignore it.


Nothings been ignored. As I've said, whether or whether not the terms used are 100% accurate or not doesn't negate 99% of the populations understanding of the words. Exactly the same thing has been done to the word "intensity" in the context of HIT. Hypocrisy anyone?

Landau wrote:
You need to first understand the origin of the words and phrases you indiscriminately use in order to validate a point.


Nonsense. My understanding of the words are irrelevant as I understand them to mean what 99% of the population does. Whether they are "technically" wrong or not doesn't negate what most understand them to mean and the benefits they have to offer. Hence why I have been largely referring to cardio and aerobics as "exercise that makes you huff and puff" yet you ignore this and still harp on about word games.

Landau wrote:
Your points are then further convoluted by the Research Cards you pull. In order to understand Research, you must know what it means and entitles.


You wish to negate any and all studies and research that disprove your opinions Landau. So much research flys in your face so therefore you try to invalidate the research instead of providing your own.

Landau wrote:
Since you accept Research at face value, you have NO ARGUMENT - you would get killed in a debate on any subject due to your ignorance of word definitions and vocabulary.


1/ Who said I accept ANY and ALL research at face value. Some research is obviously flawed or bias. But to ignore such overwhelming research and study data pointing to the benefits of "exercise that gets you huffing" is fools play.

2/ You say I would get killed in a debate? Funny, I thought that's what we were having. Last time I checked, I seemed to be doing rather well.

Landau wrote:
Your points are therefore Null and Void.


Says you based on opinion with no references. When lacking any research yourself, attempt to invalidate the research that hints that you may be wrong.. sad.

Landau wrote:
If something does not exist, then all you have is "intellectual vomitus."


What doesn't exist Landau? Surely not more silly word play again *sigh*

All you do in the debate is cry "I don't know this I don't that yada yada.." you offer zero references just opinion and try to negate everything that disproves your beliefs but offer nothing substantial.
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physcult

mentzerfan wrote:


I am amazed that I have to point out on a dedicated HIT forum how important the critique to running and other "cardio" is to the most basic HIT principles of Jones and Darden. Do you even know what Jones and Darden have written about "cardio"? Have you even heard of the Westpoint Study for instance?




No this is different. Jones believed in cardiovascular conditioning and wrote much about it. He used it as a sales tactic for Nautilus.

Jones claimed that BETTER cardiovascular conditioning could be gained by Nautilus circuit training. He just thought weight training was the BEST way to go about the job and jogging was a poor way. The argument is largely based on efficiency and injury risk. At no point did he claim it didnt exist as it was a point of sale - NAUTILUS PROVIDES SUPERIOR CARDIOVASCULAR CONDITIONING.

Aerobics is obviously a marketing word that has now virtually been dropped for the term Cardio.
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Landau

Florida, USA

physcult wrote:
mentzerfan wrote:


I am amazed that I have to point out on a dedicated HIT forum how important the critique to running and other "cardio" is to the most basic HIT principles of Jones and Darden. Do you even know what Jones and Darden have written about "cardio"? Have you even heard of the Westpoint Study for instance?




No this is different. Jones believed in cardiovascular conditioning and wrote much about it. He used it as a sales tactic for Nautilus.

Jones claimed that BETTER cardiovascular conditioning could be gained by Nautilus circuit training. He just thought weight training was the BEST way to go about the job and jogging was a poor way. The argument is largely based on efficiency and injury risk. At no point did he claim it didnt exist as it was a point of sale - NAUTILUS PROVIDES SUPERIOR CARDIOVASCULAR CONDITIONING.

Aerobics is obviously a marketing word that has now virtually been dropped for the term Cardio.


Please = Sales Tactic???? Your interpretation is wrong. Arthur saw a major FLAW in their reasoning and said "the lifting of weights" (proper) was something that worked far better by playing their game.

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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
Cardio - Word Form that refers to the Heart

Running and all sorts of "cardio" elevates the heart and is generally viewed as beneficial for the heart and associated systems hence the term "cardio" to refer to certain heart elevating exercise.

Landau wrote:
Aerobic Exercise - no such thing

Whether or whether not the term is originally 100% accurate or not is mostly word play. Fact is 99% of the population now associate the term "aerobic exercise" with exercise that elevates heart rate and gets you huffing. Saying there's no such thing is word play and doesn't negate said benefits of said exercise.

Landau wrote:
There is a major malfunction in your prepositional phrases. Academically, You would be stopped after you blurted the first sentence out of your mouth.

Opinion bias at that. I've explained my use of the words cardio and aerobic and am more concerned in the results, adaptations, benefits than playing word games. You cannot negate the research so you attempt to negate me. Desperate.

Landau wrote:
Your destruction and misuse of words is Typical. When I correct your flaw in your misuse of the language, you ignore it.

Nothings been ignored. As I've said, whether or whether not the terms used are 100% accurate or not doesn't negate 99% of the populations understanding of the words. Exactly the same thing has been done to the word "intensity" in the context of HIT. Hypocrisy anyone?

Landau wrote:
You need to first understand the origin of the words and phrases you indiscriminately use in order to validate a point.

Nonsense. My understanding of the words are irrelevant as I understand them to mean what 99% of the population does. Whether they are "technically" wrong or not doesn't negate what most understand them to mean and the benefits they have to offer. Hence why I have been largely referring to cardio and aerobics as "exercise that makes you huff and puff" yet you ignore this and still harp on about word games.

Landau wrote:
Your points are then further convoluted by the Research Cards you pull. In order to understand Research, you must know what it means and entitles.

You wish to negate any and all studies and research that disprove your opinions Landau. So much research flys in your face so therefore you try to invalidate the research instead of providing your own.

Landau wrote:
Since you accept Research at face value, you have NO ARGUMENT - you would get killed in a debate on any subject due to your ignorance of word definitions and vocabulary.

1/ Who said I accept ANY and ALL research at face value. Some research is obviously flawed or bias. But to ignore such overwhelming research and study data pointing to the benefits of "exercise that gets you huffing" is fools play.

2/ You say I would get killed in a debate? Funny, I thought that's what we were having. Last time I checked, I seemed to be doing rather well.

Landau wrote:
Your points are therefore Null and Void.

Says you based on opinion with no references. When lacking any research yourself, attempt to invalidate the research that hints that you may be wrong.. sad.

Landau wrote:
If something does not exist, then all you have is "intellectual vomitus."

What doesn't exist Landau? Surely not more silly word play again *sigh*

All you do in the debate is cry "I don't know this I don't that yada yada.." you offer zero references just opinion and try to negate everything that disproves your beliefs but offer nothing substantial.



I forgot to mention, a study of the basic tenets of Cardiology would be of help.
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N@tural1

physcult wrote:
Jones believed in cardiovascular conditioning and wrote much about it. He used it as a sales tactic for Nautilus.


Haha Landau even Arthur Jones believed in the benefits of aerobic training!

physcult wrote:
Jones claimed that BETTER cardiovascular conditioning could be gained by Nautilus circuit training. He just thought weight training was the BEST way to go about the job and jogging was a poor way.


Thats fair enough but Jones obviously still acknowledged the benefits of cardio! <Take note Landau.

physcult wrote:
At no point did he claim it didnt exist as it was a point of sale - NAUTILUS PROVIDES SUPERIOR CARDIOVASCULAR CONDITIONING.


Ha ha. You reading this David, even your hero disagrees with you.

Benefits of aerobic exercise FTW!
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Mr. Strong

Landau wrote:
1.Oxidative Stress
Which causes a breakdown of tissues. It also predisposes one to cancer and heart attack.

2.Elevated cortisol production
Which causes a breakdown of muscle tissue and increases fat storage or depot fat. People do aerobics to alleviate stress yet end up creating more stress.

3.Lowered testosterone and HGH levels
For men, aerobics are a form of chemical castration. Low T-levels are associated with lowered libido, depression, anxiety, increased body fat and decreased muscle tissue. This contributes to muscle-wasting and lowers the basal metabolic rate.

4.Increased appetite and a tendency toward binge eating patterns
Aerobic exercise makes people hungry!

5.Excessive Muscular Fatigue
Making it difficult to do other more productive forms of activity. Aerobics creates muscular weakness.

6.Conversion of fast-twitch muscle fibers to slow-twitch
The loss of fast-twitch muscle fibers contributes to aging and the loss of explosive power and speed. People become slower and slower.

7.Burns a relatively small amount of calories vs. the time spent
One large meal completely offsets the pitiful amount of calories burned in an hour aerobics session.

8.Overuse injuries to the feet, ankles, and knees from excessive, continual force transmitted throughout the body
This is exacerbated by over-engineered running shoes which cushion the feet in such a way to create a neural amnesia.

9.Shortening i.e., deformation, of the muscle tissue from repetitive mid-range (partial range) movements
This creates inflexibility, immobility, and muscle imbalances. Besides being tight, the bodies postural alignment becomes compromised. Aerobics create tight, inflexible bodies that are in chronic pain.

10.Adrenal burnout
A consequence of the ?feel good? neurotransmitters which also stimulate the release of adrenaline. Adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone. Excessive adrenaline creates an addictive response and people going routinely for the so called ?high? of running end up with adrenal burnout, e.g., chronic fatigue and depression."





4. Increased appetite is also associated with muscular strength and endurance training.

5. It seems that lots of people who use HIT only train once a week or even less, due to been too sore or tired.

6. Didn't know you were into developing power and speed. Muscular size, strength and endurance are more important to the non-athlete.

7. The calories burned during exercise are irrelevant, as the number is low regardless of the exercise being performed.

8. Find a good bit of grassland and you should be fine.

9. Do you use a full ROM on all exercises?

10. Same can occur with all types of exercise if incorrectly performed.
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
I forgot to mention, a study of the basic tenets of Cardiology would be of help.

And this would negate the numerous studies on the benefits of huff and puff exercise HOW exactly?

P.S I'll have something on this subject for you by the great man himself (Jones) watch this space. Clue - athletic journals.

EDIT: Good post Mr Strong. Agreed.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Again Juvenile uses someone else for information. He saw a way to play their game. He played it and moved on. I met, spoke, visited, "interviewed," had dinner with, and brought in colleagues to visit Arthur. I would think that your internet world is severely limited. What I know, you can't cruise the Internet to find - Sorry
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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
I forgot to mention, a study of the basic tenets of Cardiology would be of help.

And this would negate the numerous studies on the benefits of huff and puff exercise HOW exactly?

P.S I'll have something on this subject for you by the great man himself (Jones) watch this space. Clue - athletic journals.



I own the Original Physical Versions of these Articles - You have nothing on me Internet Boy.
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physcult

Landau wrote:
physcult wrote:
mentzerfan wrote:


I am amazed that I have to point out on a dedicated HIT forum how important the critique to running and other "cardio" is to the most basic HIT principles of Jones and Darden. Do you even know what Jones and Darden have written about "cardio"? Have you even heard of the Westpoint Study for instance?




No this is different. Jones believed in cardiovascular conditioning and wrote much about it. He used it as a sales tactic for Nautilus.

Jones claimed that BETTER cardiovascular conditioning could be gained by Nautilus circuit training. He just thought weight training was the BEST way to go about the job and jogging was a poor way. The argument is largely based on efficiency and injury risk. At no point did he claim it didnt exist as it was a point of sale - NAUTILUS PROVIDES SUPERIOR CARDIOVASCULAR CONDITIONING.

Aerobics is obviously a marketing word that has now virtually been dropped for the term Cardio.

Please = Sales Tactic???? Your interpretation is wrong. Arthur saw a major FLAW in their reasoning and said "the lifting of weights" (proper) was something that worked far better by playing their game.



Correct - He suggested circuit training on Nautilus was a superior cardiovascular conditioning system. He tested it with the study, and then used the results as marketing for the sales of Nautilus machines
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
I own the Original Physical Versions of these Articles - You have nothing on me Internet Boy.


OK. Question.

Did Author Jones believe that aerobic conditioning/efficiency could be improved or not? No pontificating just answer Yes or no
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Landau

Florida, USA

He played their game and won - moved on. Forget about Marketing
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physcult

Natty wrote:
physcult wrote:
Jones believed in cardiovascular conditioning and wrote much about it. He used it as a sales tactic for Nautilus.

Haha Landau even Arthur Jones believed in the benefits of aerobic training!


Its in EVERY Nautilus book Ive ever read, except for the books by Wolf, where he promotes aerobic activity as well as Nautilus circuit.

Im not sure AJ used the term aerobics but he wrote much about cardiovascular conditioning.
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physcult

Landau wrote:
Please = Sales Tactic???? Your interpretation is wrong.



The point that Nautilus is superior for cardiovascular conditioning is in pretty much every book, advert and article ever published - Im not really sure where your going on this one. It was a point of sale, a tactic for sale, it featured in the marketing and promotion.

Are you suggesting this is incorrect and Ken Hutchins/superslow has discovered that there is no such thing as cardiovascular conditioning?
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Landau

Florida, USA

Marketing - there is much more to it than just that. I am an individual, what Ken believes now - I am unsure. "cardivascular connditioning" is at BEST, a specious pursuit. That's where I stand.
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
Marketing - there is much more to it than just that. I am an individual, what Ken believes now - I am unsure. "cardivascular connditioning" is at BEST, a specious pursuit. That's where I stand.



Do you move quickly b/w exercises? Why? Why not wait for your HR and respiration to slow?
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southbeach

Why did AJ set up his Nautilus in a CIRCUIT and have trainees RUNNING (literally) from one to the next? Well??
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Landau

Florida, USA

1. Composure
2. Ask Him
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
1. Composure
2. Ask Him


1. composure?? what does that mean?

2. i did. He said to allow for greater aerobic conditioning.
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