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Is Running Really all that Bad?
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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
Read the Book - It is a Good Reference Book for any Physical Culture Library and for the cost of a few dollars or so.

This is the issue I'm having here David. The only way that physiological changes can be monitored in the human body is through a carefully controlled study and research. There is no alternative, opinion doesn't count. Now, for you to be able to invalidate all research, there would have to be carefully controlled peer reviewed research/studies which arrive at alternate conclusions. However this in itself brings about it's own set of problems. You reject all physiological research, hence how do you know that the studies that countered the other studies were properly carried out? You see the problem.

While I agree with you that many studies are inaccurate, poorly conducted, bias etc.. There is no valid reason to assume that all studies are useless.


"Cardiovascular Exercise" Research is CANNOT BE CAREFULLY MONITORED and IF THEY WERE ASSUMED TO BE, THERE WOULD BE MANY MORE FACTORS KNOWN AND UNKNOWN that would be conveniently glossed over. SINCE THE FORMULAS and DEFINITIONS are VAGUE at BEST - What do you have and do you even know who's paying them - you don't - AGENDA, BIAS, POOR DEFINITIONS, POOR (SPECIOUS) MEASURING TOOLS, and a host of many other mistakes wait to happen - you have a mess, with many pigs following.
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southbeach

TOtal BS, the physiology of exercise which includes those activities that are termed endurance or cardio can be studied like any other phenomenon.

I've given you studies here where the effects of cardio activity were DIRECTLY measured or "monitored" as you say.

I'm sure you didn't read them because you're mind is made up and no new knowledge or facts no matter how compelling will ever change that.
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Landau

Florida, USA

1. You Don't Need Scientific "Research" for something as Mundane as "Sustained Physical Activity."
2. Being that you are a True Believer, it disqualifies you as having ANY Rational on the said Inane Subject.
3. If you are a "so called" Vegan, it even makes it worse.
4. If for Instance there would be any Validity to your "beliefs" (and that's all they are), then Basketball Players would live forever.
5. Anyone that believes the way you do, should be heavily censored.
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
1. You Don't Need Scientific "Research" for something as Mundane as "Sustained Physical Activity."

you mean YOU don't need it because you were born with the truth and knowledge ROFL

2. Being that you are a True Believer, it disqualifies you as having ANY Rational on the said Inane Subject.

true believer based on the facts (that you haven't read)
3. If you are a "so called" Vegan, it even makes it worse.
\
if you are a so called meat-eater can it get any worse? i guess you don't need scienctific fact to help you decide what to eat either.. you rely on divine knowledge :)
4. If for Instance there would be any Validity to your "beliefs" (and that's all they are), then Basketball Players would live forever.
why?

5. Anyone that believes the way you do, should be heavily censored.

are you a commie?

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Benjamin Dover

southbeach wrote:
you should have been a surgeon natty because you are dissecting them lol :D


Don't you have a boxercise class to go to? Don't forget to jog there, do a quick 10 minutes on the elliptical, stretch thoroughly...and throw in a quick single set circuit as an afterthought when you're done...

...just like all the girls do.
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southbeach

JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
you should have been a surgeon natty because you are dissecting them lol :D

Don't you have a boxercise class to go to? Don't forget to jog there, do a quick 10 minutes on the elliptical, stretch thoroughly...and throw in a quick single set circuit as an afterthought when you're done...

...just like all the girls do.


can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol

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Benjamin Dover

Natty wrote:
...cardio factor? But you JUST SAID your clients don't perform cardio? So they don't perform cardio yet there is a cardio factor... they either benefit from elevated heart/breathing rates or they don't....


They perform NO traditional cardio work. None. Nothing at all. Zero. Not a second. I see you still don't get it.

Individuals who employ the "rush factor" may improve their "aerobic capacity", something which is subject to MINOR change via training stimulus. Key point - MINOR change. Such change is small and highly specific. I still don't mention health.

Natty boy, how many runners have you had to rehab lately? More specifically, how many runners do you actually know personally (internet gurus/nutters don't count)? My guess is that you deal with about as many runners as you do "strength athletes"...NONE!

Put the laptop away and see the truth for yourself. When can I expect you to drop by?
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Mr. Strong

southbeach wrote:
JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
you should have been a surgeon natty because you are dissecting them lol :D

Don't you have a boxercise class to go to? Don't forget to jog there, do a quick 10 minutes on the elliptical, stretch thoroughly...and throw in a quick single set circuit as an afterthought when you're done...

...just like all the girls do.

can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol




Can you?
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southbeach

Mr. Strong wrote:
southbeach wrote:
JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
you should have been a surgeon natty because you are dissecting them lol :D

Don't you have a boxercise class to go to? Don't forget to jog there, do a quick 10 minutes on the elliptical, stretch thoroughly...and throw in a quick single set circuit as an afterthought when you're done...

...just like all the girls do.

can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol




Can you?


i just finished a 3 mile run while you were composing your erudite reply haha!
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Benjamin Dover

southbeach wrote:
can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol



Fat carcass? That would be your friend Natty, you have the wrong bloke. By the look of him, he has trouble getting his lardy arse off the sofa.

I'm "fit" enough SB, by definition. Fit enough, by the way, to play a sport semi-professionally alongside national grade professionals.

When I was playing as a junior (up until the age of 19), at the nation level, I was made to follow stupid running, resistance and general "conditioning" programs. The programs were of course devised by "the experts", based on the latest "research". Strange how I find the game much easier now, dedicating about 8 minutes weekly to specific exercise and about 1 hour (if I'm lucky), to specific skill training.

And another thing - what should we do SB, in the case of conflicting research? Would we (perish the thought), have to think for ourselves?





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southbeach

JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol



Fat carcass? That would be your friend Natty, you have the wrong bloke. By the look of him, he has trouble getting his lardy arse off the sofa.

I'm "fit" enough SB, by definition. Fit enough, by the way, to play a sport semi-professionally alongside national grade professionals.

When I was playing as a junior (up until the age of 19), at the nation level, I was made to follow stupid running, resistance and general "conditioning" programs. The programs were of course devised by "the experts", based on the latest "research". Strange how I find the game much easier now, dedicating about 8 minutes weekly to specific exercise and about 1 hour (if I'm lucky), to specific skill training.

And another thing - what should we do SB, in the case of conflicting research? Would we (perish the thought), have to think for ourselves?







"fit enough" for what? how fit are you? how do you know? are you guessing?

you don't know where you are at and where you need to be.

is almost fit fit enough? can you be TOO fit?

inquiring minds want to know
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Landau

Florida, USA

southbeach wrote:
JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol



Fat carcass? That would be your friend Natty, you have the wrong bloke. By the look of him, he has trouble getting his lardy arse off the sofa.

I'm "fit" enough SB, by definition. Fit enough, by the way, to play a sport semi-professionally alongside national grade professionals.

When I was playing as a junior (up until the age of 19), at the nation level, I was made to follow stupid running, resistance and general "conditioning" programs. The programs were of course devised by "the experts", based on the latest "research". Strange how I find the game much easier now, dedicating about 8 minutes weekly to specific exercise and about 1 hour (if I'm lucky), to specific skill training.

And another thing - what should we do SB, in the case of conflicting research? Would we (perish the thought), have to think for ourselves?







"fit enough" for what? how fit are you? how do you know? are you guessing?

you don't know where you are at and where you need to be.

is almost fit fit enough? can you be TOO fit?

inquiring minds want to know


This is a Typical Obsessive Compulsive non thinking mindless person - (So Called South Beach Character) Your Statements are Pathetic and Inculcated with Total Fixated Ignorance. You "define fitness" Bound By Popular Mythical Notions. The real objective of Fitness is Individually Defined. If I am on Time, I Walk to my Car in the Parking Lot. If I "run" a little late, I "run" / sprint to get there. I have it when I need it, not bound by Godly Fitness Laws and strapped to a Treadmill like an unfortunate Lab Rat. Go Chase your Cheese - Cheeseball.

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N@tural1

DAVID.

Landau wrote:
"Cardiovascular Exercise" Research is CANNOT BE CAREFULLY MONITORED and IF THEY WERE ASSUMED TO BE, THERE WOULD BE MANY MORE FACTORS KNOWN AND UNKNOWN that would be conveniently glossed over. SINCE THE FORMULAS and DEFINITIONS are VAGUE at BEST.


Bullshit David. Exercise physiology is studied like any other aspect of biology/physiology. As SB has I have presented numerous studies where aspects of exercise were monitored and recored. You wish to attempt to discredit them because your mind is made up. I don't expect anything to change it but at least the board can see you for what you are. A dogmatic, stubborn and bias man.

Landau wrote:
Do you even know who's paying them - you don't - AGENDA, BIAS, POOR DEFINITIONS, POOR (SPECIOUS) MEASURING TOOLS, and a host of many other mistakes wait to happen - you have a mess, with many pigs following.


The words agenda, bias define you perfectly yet you throw it at everyone else open minded. Are you saying that because we may not know exactly who's funding the research then it's all null and void? Come now another logical fallacy. You could argue the same of ANY field of science. Fact is in 100 years time regardless of new advancements there will still me closed minded dogmatic fools like you who wish to discredit everything that proves their closed minded opinion wrong. If YOU don't know who's paying them then how do you know they are bias?

Landau wrote:
1. You Don't Need Scientific "Research" for something as Mundane as "Sustained Physical Activity."


Who says "Sustained Physical Activity" is mundane? You? Are you the ultimate definer of what's worthwhile or not? Dogma at it's finest. You really do have your heads stuck up your own arse. I guess you don't need research if you choose to reject it all and form opinions based on philosophy.

Landau wrote:
2. Being that you are a True Believer, it disqualifies you as having ANY Rational on the said Inane Subject.


Classic, the way you apply to others what actually applies to you. "True believer" does not apply to myself, I am always embracing new knowledge based on new discovery based on studies and research. The term "true believer" would apply to closed minded bias fools that believe they have all the answers based on speculative nonsense ignoring all actual hands on research in the field.

Landau wrote:
4. If for Instance there would be any Validity to your "beliefs" (and that's all they are), then Basketball Players would live forever.


WTF are you even on about? Why? Who's even made the claim that ANYONE that exercises live forever? What a stupid thing to say!

Landau wrote:
5. Anyone that believes the way you do, should be heavily censored.


More application of what applies TO YOU to others. How is basing knowledge from the results of research worthy of "censorship"? If anyone should censored it's those that choose to ignore any and all studies/research on the subject.. Anyone that wishes to close their mind to new information has nothing to offer but speculation and bias dogmatic opinion.

Landau.
You cannot negate science, studies and research based on hearsay and opinion. Please give as something substantial. eg..Do you have any studies where the results showed no change after a period of exercise? If not your views are purely speculative or based on other peoples bias and speculation. The fact that SOME studies may be bias or conducted poorly does NOT negate them all. If you have evidence against the numerous studies presented in this thread then please present it.

JAMES.

JamesT wrote:
They perform NO traditional cardio work. None. Nothing at all. Zero. Not a second. I see you still don't get it.


James, you seem to be having some problem grasping my point. I never said that you have your clients perform "tradition" cardio. My point is that you DO have them perform a FORM of cardio.

JamesT wrote:
Individuals who employ the "rush factor" may improve their "aerobic capacity", something which is subject to MINOR change via training stimulus. Key point - MINOR change.


It's good to see you at least acknowledge that aerobic capacity is something that can be improved but saying only by a tiny amount is speculative/opinion, may I see the research data for this claim?

JamesT wrote:
Such change is small and highly specific. I still don't mention health.


The studies presented by SB and myself DO mention health. May I see your references proving otherwise?

JamesT wrote:
Natty boy, how many runners have you had to rehab lately? More specifically, how many runners do you actually know personally (internet gurus/nutters don't count)? My guess is that you deal with about as many runners as you do "strength athletes"...NONE!


I used to run, a lot. In my teens to early 20's. I loved it made me feel GREAT and I was super fit and bloody fast. NO injuries.

JamesT wrote:
Fat carcass? That would be your friend Natty, you have the wrong bloke. By the look of him, he has trouble getting his lardy arse off the sofa.


Ad Hominem attacks only serve to highlight your lack of a substantial answer. Sad.
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Mr. Strong

southbeach wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
southbeach wrote:
JamesT wrote:
southbeach wrote:
you should have been a surgeon natty because you are dissecting them lol :D

Don't you have a boxercise class to go to? Don't forget to jog there, do a quick 10 minutes on the elliptical, stretch thoroughly...and throw in a quick single set circuit as an afterthought when you're done...

...just like all the girls do.

can you pull your fat carcass for even a 440 w/o collapsing into pile of...? lol




Can you?

i just finished a 3 mile run while you were composing your erudite reply haha!



What was your time?
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Landau

Florida, USA

1. "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."

You are part of the problem!

2. You CANNOT think for yourself, so you hind behind someone else's work, and blindly accept it at face value - the outside in approach, which is SADLY TYPICAL of your type. You are afraid to be stripped of your own illusions.
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
1. "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."

You are part of the problem!

2. You CANNOT think for yourself, so you hind behind someone else's work, and blindly accept it at face value - the outside in approach, which is SADLY TYPICAL of your type. You are afraid to be stripped of your own illusions.


Nobody is hiding Natty & I am presenting the work in plain view. Feel free to criticize the specifics. But first you must read the research ;)

Spouting dogma is not thinking.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Dogma: Something held as Established Opinion (Establishment - YOU) If Coronary Heart Disease Develops and Progesses during Conditioning Programs, it's Human Biological Pathology and that's the way it goes. Forget your "latest research" - Epidemiologists have understood the relationships for centuries. There is no Water Boy that is going to change that. Leave it up for your Marketing Research to bend what the Water Boys have to say to sell thier BS. Now that information plain and simple needs to be said. My Job is to Expose your Fraud and make you re-think. Get over it!
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
Dogma: Something held as Established Opinion (Establishment - YOU) If Coronary Heart Disease Develops and Progesses during Conditioning Programs, it's Human Biological Pathology and that's the way it goes. Forget your "latest research" - Epidemiologists have understood the relationships for centuries. There is no Water Boy that is going to change that. Leave it up for your Marketing Research to bend what the Water Boys have to say to sell thier BS. Now that information plain and simple needs to be said. My Job is to Expose your Fraud and make you re-think. Get over it!


Who said exercise prevents CVD? Isn't it YOU that believes your big biceps indemnifies against the damage done by a deep fried doughnut?

But exercise esp cardio may help by improving endothelium function, reducing cholesterol and trigly, liver fat, improve heart and lung function, and reduce mortality.

What's the oppsite of fit... unfit. Can anyone that is overweight and unfit be healthy iyo? Someone that never exercises never gets off the couch is subject to sarcopenia.. is that a healthy state? Would say to them yes you are healthy?
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
1. "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd


It's also no evidence that it's wrong either. All you have is logical fallacy you produce nothing substantial. Opinion BASED ON RESEARCH may not not ALWAYS be 100% but it doesn't make it ALL wrong either.

Landau wrote:
indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible."


Ridiculous argument- "more people believe "x" therefore "x" must be wrong. When "x" is based on studies and YEARS of research "x" becomes a pretty safe bet and "y" is based on speculation and ignorance.

Landau wrote:
2. You CANNOT think for yourself, so you hind behind someone else's work, and blindly accept it at face value


You tell me how else we're meant to understand complex physiological adaptation if not for extensive research? Of course some common sense needs to be in order but what else is there other than research? Speculation? Opinion based on hearsay?

Landau wrote:
the outside in approach, which is SADLY TYPICAL of your type. You are afraid to be stripped of your own illusions


Our "illusions" are based on years of research. You saying we have "illusions" doesn't make it so, to ignore all research and science would be an illusion David.

Landau wrote:
Dogma: Something held as Established Opinion (Establishment - YOU)


Wrong. Re-read the definition of dogma.

Landau wrote:
If Coronary Heart Disease Develops and Progesses during Conditioning Programs, it's Human Biological Pathology and that's the way it goes. Forget your "latest research" - Epidemiologists have understood the relationships for centuries. There is no Water Boy that is going to change that. Leave it up for your Marketing Research to bend what the Water Boys have to say to sell thier BS.


David please stop with this ridiculous line of reasoning. NOBODY has made the bloody ridiculous claim that exercise is a guarantee that no health issues will ever arise. This has NOT been stated so please quit this line of reasoning.

Landau wrote:
Now that information plain and simple needs to be said. My Job is to Expose your Fraud and make you re-think. Get over it!


Your job is to train people SSTF. Nothing more. Know your limits. You cannot shout "FRAUD" and expect it to stick when you provide absolutely NO research or evidence that counters SB's and mine.
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N@tural1

southbeach wrote:
Who said exercise prevents CVD? Isn't it YOU that believes your big biceps indemnifies against the damage done by a deep fried doughnut?


Agreed SB. Landau is arguing against a claim that's not even been made. Noone has claimed exercise = zero health issues.

southbeach wrote:
But exercise esp cardio may help by improving endothelium function, reducing cholesterol and trigly, liver fat, improve heart and lung function, and reduce mortality.

What's the oppsite of fit... unfit. Can anyone that is overweight and unfit be healthy iyo? Someone that never exercises never gets off the couch is subject to sarcopenia.. is that a healthy state? Would say to them yes you are healthy?


^^ I am very interested to read Landau's bias response to this.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Who said exercise prevents CVD? Isn't it YOU that believes your big biceps indemnifies against the damage done by a deep fried doughnut?

Agreed SB. Landau is arguing against a claim that's not even been made. Noone has claimed exercise = zero health issues.

southbeach wrote:
But exercise esp cardio may help by improving endothelium function, reducing cholesterol and trigly, liver fat, improve heart and lung function, and reduce mortality.

What's the oppsite of fit... unfit. Can anyone that is overweight and unfit be healthy iyo? Someone that never exercises never gets off the couch is subject to sarcopenia.. is that a healthy state? Would say to them yes you are healthy?

^^ I am very interested to read Landau's bias response to this.


Both you guys live in a fantasy world, whereas I freely interact with many in the Medical Arena. We freely discuss my disdain for Exercise Physiology (the type you true believers subscribe to) and they agree with me. I know not to watse my energy like you punks do. You both are Dogmatic - I just show an intelligent Practicality. Ironically - both of you have turned down invitations to train for free (HIT). I suggest since this is a HIT Site and both of you have turned down a chance to train real HIT - I think its time for both of you to go. I'm going to now fix myself 2 Hamburgers - I LOVE being so FAT. Obesity is SO GOOD and HEALTHY.

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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
I freely interact with many in the Medical Arena.


WHO!?

Landau wrote:
We freely discuss my disdain for Exercise Physiology (the type you true believers subscribe to) and they agree with me.


So do these experts think that spending all day on a couch completely sedentary is healthy? Answer that David don't avoid it.

Landau wrote:
I know not to watse my energy like you punks do.


How so? By reading research? How is this a waste?

Landau wrote:
You both are Dogmatic


We are open minded to new understandings based on studies, how the hell is being open minded "dogmatic"?

Landau wrote:
I just show an intelligent Practicality


You show a closed minded biased ignorant attitude. I pity you if you think that's "intelligent"

Landau wrote:
Ironically - both of you have turned down invitations to train for free (HIT).


James gym for me a a huge drive, why would I spend hours driving to meet a fella that insults me here on the board? Is that normal?

Landau wrote:
I suggest since this is a HIT Site and both of you have turned down a chance to train real HIT - I think its time for both of you to go.


Please don't deflect from the actual debate ie the validity of research and exercise health benefits.

Landau wrote:
I'm going to now fix myself 2 Hamburgers - I LOVE being so FAT. Obesity is SO GOOD and HEALTHY.


How anyone can take you seriously is staggering.

Please don't avoid SB's questions he posed to you, answer please.
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AceHIT

Landau wrote:
Natty wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Who said exercise prevents CVD? Isn't it YOU that believes your big biceps indemnifies against the damage done by a deep fried doughnut?

Agreed SB. Landau is arguing against a claim that's not even been made. Noone has claimed exercise = zero health issues.

southbeach wrote:
But exercise esp cardio may help by improving endothelium function, reducing cholesterol and trigly, liver fat, improve heart and lung function, and reduce mortality.

What's the oppsite of fit... unfit. Can anyone that is overweight and unfit be healthy iyo? Someone that never exercises never gets off the couch is subject to sarcopenia.. is that a healthy state? Would say to them yes you are healthy?

^^ I am very interested to read Landau's bias response to this.

Both you guys live in a fantasy world, whereas I freely interact with many in the Medical Arena. We freely discuss my disdain for Exercise Physiology (the type you true believers subscribe to) and they agree with me. I know not to watse my energy like you punks do. You both are Dogmatic - I just show an intelligent Practicality. Ironically - both of you have turned down invitations to train for free (HIT). I suggest since this is a HIT Site and both of you have turned down a chance to train real HIT - I think its time for both of you to go. I'm going to now fix myself 2 Hamburgers - I LOVE being so FAT. Obesity is SO GOOD and HEALTHY.




Haha! I love your style!
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Benjamin Dover

southbeach wrote:
Who said exercise prevents CVD? Isn't it YOU that believes your big biceps indemnifies against the damage done by a deep fried doughnut?

But exercise esp cardio may help by improving endothelium function, reducing cholesterol and trigly, liver fat, improve heart and lung function, and reduce mortality.

What's the oppsite of fit... unfit. Can anyone that is overweight and unfit be healthy iyo? Someone that never exercises never gets off the couch is subject to sarcopenia.. is that a healthy state? Would say to them yes you are healthy?


If the simplistic notions presented above were actually true (which for the most part, they are particularly dubious), I STILL must ask...

...why RUNNING?

And the answer to the above question you asked, in my opinion is YES. Of course an overweight individual who doesn't exercise can be considered healthy. This should be obvious, but irrelevant.

Can a former runner with a heart condition, crumbling spine and two plastic knees be considered healthy?

Think about your posts before you "Lol" at your own words Yoga Boy. What time is the "Bums and Tums" on anyway? Is it before or after the ladies only pilates? Don't forget the pink hotpants cheeky!

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Benjamin Dover

Natty wrote:
Ad Hominem attacks only serve to highlight your lack of a substantial answer. Sad.


Hold on Natty Boy! It's a piss take...PISS TAKE.

If you want substance you could come and see me. It's not as far as you're making out my friend...is it???

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