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Is Running Really all that Bad?
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iflyboats

Running often causes soft tissue injuries, and sometimes bone injuries, but these heal fine with rest and so are not a major concerns. The question of whether running is truly dangerous hinges on whether it causes JOINT (i.e. cartilage) damage. I think the answer it does not. Yes, some runners develop arthritis, but observe that arthritis is extremely common among sedentary people. Healthy joints are suited to tolerate impulse loading and there's just not anything in the way of compelling evidence to suggest otherwise.

None of this is meant to validate running as an exercise method; of course, I prefer high intensity strength training. But in all honesty, I do believe the HIT camp has overestimated the supposed dangers of running.
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

HSDAD wrote:
From back in my cycling hey-day in the '80s, four of the guys I rode with also ran and did occasional duathlon and triathlon events. Only one of them is still capable of running and he runs with a limp associated with a botched knee surgery. That surgery caused by all accounts from excessive running in the first place. The other three cycle exclusively now.

Living in one place your whole life and knowing all of the same people helps in stuff like this. When you guys look around your social circles, do you know which of the people you see were avid runners in the '80s? When you see a happy, uninjured runner, ask him how long he's been running and when was his first marathon.

THe fact is, lighter, thinner people will have much better luck with running as the damage to joints is less. But if you go over 200lb., running is long term suicide based on my observations.

BTW - until last year, I was the only guy among my cycling buddies who DIDN'T have stiff or arthritic knees. My foray into heavy squatting last year put me on the casualty list as well. So running overdone is perhaps no more dangerous than strength training overdone?


All good points.

There are "many" things that might contribute to "knee" problems and running can certainly be a source of "repetitive impact", particularly if warm up and running form are not the best.

Your knee problems from squatting are likely due to several other elements:

1) I assume you performed little to no warm-up which is fatal with heavy loads. A full and complete warm up will substantially reduce the negative effects of heavy squats. Additionally light elastic or neoprene sleeves can add stability and warmth to a degree of protection.

2) You likely assumed a more vertical spinal attitude which reduces the load to the hip joint and increases the load to the knees. A Powerlifting style squat with more forward lean of the torso and a lower bar positions to adjust the COG/COM could reduce knee stresses.

3) You probably squatted at a slow or slower speed increasing the time/force component to the stresses on the knee, and the soft tissues (cartilages). This increased time force component with larger loads creates a greater deformation displacement to those soft tissues (cartilages) due to an increased time to deformation.

Any or all of those elements as well as others can cause knee problems and pain.
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southbeach

southbeach wrote:
Landau wrote:
Again - you don't seem (refuse) to understand objectives - I am not a weightlifter (sport). Just go and Run in the street little boy. Marc - Save me from this child - please!

ok, what are you? why did and do you spend all those years lifting?



i know it's a hard question after all you've said here. you avoid an answer speaks volumes.

Biofart, your not a runner.
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Landau

Florida, USA

First of all - You stated I was Fat. I am likely at least 20 years older than you. The Fact is that I am more leaner/muscular than you and I am a couch POTATOE. Running - an Affliction - catabolic, Proper Strength Training - Anabolic. It's obvious what choice to make. Marc was right about you. Vegan/Cardio - that is Plain Sick. If you are in South Beach, you are only 30 minutes away - You are invited to train with us and we will test your Capacity to endure........ Taking or Selling?
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
First of all - You stated I was Fat. I am likely at least 20 years older than you. The Fact is that I am more leaner/muscular than you and I am a couch POTATOE. Running - an Affliction - catabolic, Proper Strength Training - Anabolic. It's obvious what choice to make. Marc was right about you. Vegan/Cardio - that is Plain Sick. If you are in South Beach, you are only 30 minutes away - You are invited to train with us and we will test your Capacity to endure........ Taking or Selling?


all in due time..

the question i ask you because you question my running is:

why did and do you spend all those years lifting?

just answer the question.

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Landau

Florida, USA

You show up, I'll give you all the Reasons in person.
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
You show up, I'll give you all the Reasons in person.


no, tell us now. let us all benefit from your wisdom. is it a secret?

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Landau

Florida, USA

Very Simple - I don't have to answer. The answer is self evident to anyone, but Running and your belief in such is akin to a Religious Disease and your beliefs belong at a site like "Runners World." OK again - Running breaks down the body, Strength Training builds the body. Read Body by Science and the Answer is there - There is no such thing as CardioVascular Exercise - Cardio Fervor leads to a Cart before the Horse Mentality, which has literally destoyed thousands of people's Physiological Health.
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johnbhoy

Armed Forces - Europe

Back in the early eighties running was very popular here in the UK and as a teenager i got hooked on it. I ran about 30 miles per week, a mixture of steady lond distance and more intense work.
By the age of 19 i was skinny and weak but regarded myself as super fit.

I took up weight training on the advice of a well built and non running friend. The first workout, especially the front squat machine at the local sports centre nearly killed me, despite being nowhere near failure. I was hooked however and have weight trained ever since, with only a few periods of no training.
If you enjoy running then fine, but i am with David on this one, it has little or no value, and could be harmful.
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
Very Simple - I don't have to answer. The answer is self evident to anyone, but Running and your belief in such is akin to a Religious Disease and your beliefs belong at a site like "Runners World." OK again - Running breaks down the body, Strength Training builds the body. Read Body by Science and the Answer is there - There is no such thing as CardioVascular Exercise - Cardio Fervor leads to a Cart before the Horse Mentality, which has literally destoyed thousands of people's Physiological Health.


This is not true running (cardio) is not a religion to me. i like being able to move my body quickly across space for long distances. i feel empowered.

But there's also some UNIQUE specific health benefits that the research have demonstrated.. you dismiss these potential benefits out-of-hand but you have no proof just your opinion jaded by years of resistance training.

I love resistance training too.. esp finding the "minimal" solution to getting the greater results. I apply this to my aerobics too.

I not only run but i stationary bike, row and climb stairs. But I do believe the literature shows that more than "wind sprints" are necessary for the greatest benefits that cardio can provide. has to do with intensity:duration.

I cardio for ONE HOUR almost every day in ADDITION to resistance training. Is it hurting my gains, i don't think so.

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N@tural1

Landau.

You reject any and all sorts of exercise but slow SSTF? Then you refer to the training opinions of others more open minded than you as "religion". Hypocrite! Nobody is as cult like about exercise as HITers and especially the jedi aka YOU!

Two identical humans, one runs the other doesn't, who will be better at running? who's heart/lungs will be more efficient? Answer THE RUNNER..why? ADAPTATION! If running had no benefit.. it wouldn't make you better at RUNNING would it!

The benefits of cardiovascular exercise is proven, documented both scientifically and empirically. You're a closed minded fool David with a bias and agenda.

It's up to you to disprove establish exercise science not pollute a forum with bullshit opinion thats laughable!

BACK UP YOUR BULLSHIT!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Someone mentioned that running is not good for the heart and lungs? I'm sorry, but I'd beg to differ. Anything that increases your heart rate over a period of 20 munites or so is benefitial to the heart and lungs whether it's running, cycling or humping your girl friend. If it gets your resperation up considerably over an extended period of time it builds your cardiovascualar system and your heart is part of that.

Like I've said before, I'm not the running type that is skinny and well designed for running and I've run marathons and triathlons, 10 k's and just plain run for fun for 30+ years and have never had a leg issue and it kept me in great shape ( when I stuck with it). I'm lucky in that my body has not broken down yet just like Arnold Swartzennegger hasn't suffered the effects of his steriod use yet. It may happen some day but hopefully by then I'll be so old so who cares. You gotta do things.

I can show you tons of folks who have bad knees and hips and just about everything else who never ran or did anything at all but sit at a desk all their life and complain . The real danger or stupidity is not doing things because you think you might get an injury because someone else did. I'm sure I could show you people who have arthritic arms who used to workout and blame curls for it. If you think you want to run give it a shot. You'll know soon enough if it's good or bad for you. Just start off slow and easy and take your time.

Right now I'm getting back into walking on my hands. It's very tough getting back into it. Someone said don't do that,at your age it might cause a brain hemmorage or something similar. Well heck, if it does that's the way it goes, your can't stop doing things that you really want to do out of fear that something "might" happen.

Scott
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N@tural1

entsminger wrote:
Someone mentioned that running is not good for the heart and lungs? I'm sorry, but I'd beg to differ. Anything that increases your heart rate over a period of 20 munites or so is benefitial to the heart and lungs whether it's running, cycling or humping your girl friend. If it gets your resperation up considerably over an extended period of time it builds your cardiovascualar system and your heart is part of that.


Absolutely!

The bullshit on this board is freaking NUTS!
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Landau

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
Someone mentioned that running is not good for the heart and lungs? I'm sorry, but I'd beg to differ. Anything that increases your heart rate over a period of 20 munites or so is benefitial to the heart and lungs whether it's running, cycling or humping your girl friend. If it gets your resperation up considerably over an extended period of time it builds your cardiovascualar system and your heart is part of that.

Like I've said before, I'm not the running type that is skinny and well designed for running and I've run marathons and triathlons, 10 k's and just plain run for fun for 30+ years and have never had a leg issue and it kept me in great shape ( when I stuck with it). I'm lucky in that my body has not broken down yet just like Arnold Swartzennegger hasn't suffered the effects of his steriod use yet. It may happen some day but hopefully by then I'll be so old so who cares. You gotta do things.

I can show you tons of folks who have bad knees and hips and just about everything else who never ran or did anything at all but sit at a desk all their life and complain . The real danger or stupidity is not doing things because you think you might get an injury because someone else did. I'm sure I could show you people who have arthritic arms who used to workout and blame curls for it. If you think you want to run give it a shot. You'll know soon enough if it's good or bad for you. Just start off slow and easy and take your time.

Right now I'm getting back into walking on my hands. It's very tough getting back into it. Someone said don't do that,at your age it might cause a brain hemmorage or something similar. Well heck, if it does that's the way it goes, your can't stop doing things that you really want to do out of fear that something "might" happen.

Scott


Lets Not Beat Around The Bush - I Said It And I Stand By It. If You've bought into 20 Minutes Why Not Oh the 20 - 60 3 to 5 times a week - the supposed "Cardio Aerobics Standards" that are forced down the public's throat by the "esteemed ACSM." Running's an AFFLICTION and if You Wanna do it, Go Ahead - just don't lay on the BS about that its better for your heart and lungs - that's just plain WRONG/STUPID. I have NO FEAR of doing certain things, I just think they are utterly ridiculous for me to even bother. Just because somethings BRANDED into your DNA, does not make it Healthier for you to do. Just go about doing it because you like it, not because you deem it Healthier because you survived it.

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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
Landau.

You reject any and all sorts of exercise but slow SSTF? Then you refer to the training opinions of others more open minded than you as "religion". Hypocrite! Nobody is as cult like about exercise as HITers and especially the jedi aka YOU!

Two identical humans, one runs the other doesn't, who will be better at running? who's heart/lungs will be more efficient? Answer THE RUNNER..why? ADAPTATION! If running had no benefit.. it wouldn't make you better at RUNNING would it!

The benefits of cardiovascular exercise is proven, documented both scientifically and empirically. You're a closed minded fool David with a bias and agenda.

It's up to you to disprove establish exercise science not pollute a forum with bullshit opinion thats laughable!

BACK UP YOUR BULLSHIT!



There is no such thing as "Cardiovascular Exercise," that is well documented in Medicine. You are alluding to "Cardiovascular Drift" which can be Fatal. So when this is Fact, what do you have to stand on? What the Hell does one have to run for? Biased? If Human Biology was Left Alone and not abused by "Your Science," we'd be a BUNCH Healthier.
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
There is no such thing as "Cardiovascular Exercise," that is well documented in Medicine.


Tell me why the entire medical community encourage us to be active and to exercise?

Landau wrote:
So when this is Fact, what do you have to stand on? What the Hell does one have to run for? Biased? If Human Biology was Left Alone and not abused by "Your Science," we'd be a BUNCH Healthier.


Don't lift if you want to leave human biology untouched.

You STILL avoid this question.. WHY does someone that jogs regularly become better at jogging? What adaptations take place to make that person a more effective runner? Obviously adaptations DO take place, so what are they?
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Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
There is no such thing as "Cardiovascular Exercise," that is well documented in Medicine.

Tell me why the entire medical community encourage us to be active and to exercise?

Landau wrote:
So when this is Fact, what do you have to stand on? What the Hell does one have to run for? Biased? If Human Biology was Left Alone and not abused by "Your Science," we'd be a BUNCH Healthier.

Don't lift if you want to leave human biology untouched.

You STILL avoid this question.. WHY does someone that jogs regularly become better at jogging? What adaptations take place to make that person a more effective runner? Obviously adaptations DO take place, so what are they?


The Medical Community also suggests the unnecessary consumption of Dangerous Pharmaseuticals. They are "Exercise" Consumers to directly answer your "query." Your (Adaptational) Question is a Stupid DEAD END - Why don't you tell me so you CAN STICK YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH. TELL ME! Go Ahead - pretend I don't know or my answer is one you don't agree with. You are one of the Biggest GIGO's on this SITE and you think that if you get the last word in, you win? There seems to be somebody brainwashed here - Clue - it isn't me. You don't seem to get the "Drift."

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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
Your (Adaptational) Question is a Stupid DEAD END - Why don't you tell me so you CAN STICK YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH. TELL ME! Go Ahead - pretend I don't know or my answer is one you don't agree with. You are one of the Biggest GIGO's on this SITE and you think that if you get the last word in, you win? There seems to be somebody brainwashed here - Clue - it isn't me. You don't seem to get the "Drift."


More classic Landau "waffle" without actually saying anything. Lets look at my previous post:

Natty wrote:
You STILL avoid this question.. WHY does someone that jogs regularly become better at jogging? What adaptations take place to make that person a more effective runner? Obviously adaptations DO take place, so what are they?


Now lets analyze your response:

My question is stupid..

Pretend you don't know the answer..

I'm a big GIGO (WTF is that?)

Last word win..

Brainwashed..

YADA YADA..

So David, no ACTUAL reply to the question then!? LMAO! you're a clueless fool with no idea so all you do is avoid the question, avoid the points, insult, side step, pontificate. Verbal diarrhea..

SO. Mr HIT cult leader wannabe..

Cardiovascular exercise DOES cause adaptation, this is evidenced by the plain and simple fact that someone that performs cardio becomes more efficient AT cardio. SO if you genius claim there's no benefit to cardio then WHY DO YOU GET BETTER AT IT WHEN YOU DO IT! Adaptations DO occur so WTF ARE THEY!?

At least be a man and admit that you just don't know just like a lot of other exercise/lifting related subjects.
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Tom Traynor

It takes so much longer to get a decent intensity level out of a "jogger"....I can usually tell they are one of those by the pathetic inability to dig in and work high-threshold MU's at the end of a set. They are decrepid, SLOW (trained to BE slow), stiff, weak...just awful, really. About half of them who stick around realize this on their own and drop it.

Southbeach: Show up at Landaus and teach him a lesson! Enough "jogging" on the keyboard.
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Landau

Florida, USA

"Cardiovascular exercise DOES cause adaptation, this is evidenced by the plain and simple fact that someone that performs cardio becomes more efficient AT cardio. SO if you genius claim there's no benefit to cardio then WHY DO YOU GET BETTER AT IT WHEN YOU DO IT! Adaptations DO occur so WTF ARE THEY!?"

No - your "Questions" involve specious fantasy outcomes. Is anyone else here with me on this complete IDIOT? Chime in Please!

1. A Person that "runs" does NOT make them Healthier.
2. Running is a Useless Affliction
3. "Adaptations" are Akin to Pony Express - so WHO cares?
4. Running introduces a Host of Maladies - Physical, Pathological, and Mental
5. There are NO benefits - Quit Dreaming
6. You can get away with your "take" on other fanntasy web sites, but your LACK of Viable Thought makes me think several worms have crawled in through your ears and are eating away at your brain matter
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

But in all honesty, I do believe the HIT camp has overestimated the supposed dangers of running.

==Scott==

I think there is a huge contingent of folks in the HIT camp who think anything other than pure HIT ( whatever that is?) is bad regardless of what it is, be it running ,rowing, cycling, swimming, high volume, or for that matter thinking sensibly.

Well, here I go again.... About 20 minutes ago I sat at my desk here at work and started reading some of the latest chat on some of these threads here and when I was done I asked myself, do I really want to get involved and waste my time responding to all the slop being thrown back and forth in 90% of them? Some of you guys really know how to take a thread with good possibilities and kill it with either non related slop/fuss or attacks on someone just because they say something you don't agree with.It's like reading correspondence between two sailors on two different ships who are pissed off and stuck in the cargo hold with nothing else to do but yell at each other about which ship is better.

Scott

Scott
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physcult

Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
Your (Adaptational) Question is a Stupid DEAD END - Why don't you tell me so you CAN STICK YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH. TELL ME! Go Ahead - pretend I don't know or my answer is one you don't agree with. You are one of the Biggest GIGO's on this SITE and you think that if you get the last word in, you win? There seems to be somebody brainwashed here - Clue - it isn't me. You don't seem to get the "Drift."

More classic Landau "waffle" without actually saying anything. Lets look at my previous post:

Natty wrote:
You STILL avoid this question.. WHY does someone that jogs regularly become better at jogging? What adaptations take place to make that person a more effective runner? Obviously adaptations DO take place, so what are they?

Now lets analyze your response:

My question is stupid..

Pretend you don't know the answer..

I'm a big GIGO (WTF is that?)

Last word win..

Brainwashed..

YADA YADA..

So David, no ACTUAL reply to the question then!? LMAO! you're a clueless fool with no idea so all you do is avoid the question, avoid the points, insult, side step, pontificate. Verbal diarrhea..

SO. Mr HIT cult leader wannabe..

Cardiovascular exercise DOES cause adaptation, this is evidenced by the plain and simple fact that someone that performs cardio becomes more efficient AT cardio. SO if you genius claim there's no benefit to cardio then WHY DO YOU GET BETTER AT IT WHEN YOU DO IT! Adaptations DO occur so WTF ARE THEY!?

At least be a man and admit that you just don't know just like a lot of other exercise/lifting related subjects.


Ill have a go at answering!

It should go something like this:

Although jogging may cause some adaptation to the muscles and cardiovascular system, I BELIEVE there are far better alternatives in the weight room, that would achieve far greater results, in a much more efficient manner, whilst having less negative effect.

The time spent jogging could be better spent in the gym. A weight training regime should be planned by an experienced trainer, and MAY actually take less time than a jogging program and provide a longer lasting effect on the metabolism, making it easier to maintain a lean body in the future. It will also provide many adaptations a jogging program alone could not.

I also BELIEVE that running should only be an adjunct to a weight training program due to the imbalances it MAY cause and potential injury risks. It must also be taken into account that if a person wishes to add jogging their fat loss exercise program, they should take into account how many calories the activity uses and diet accordingly. They should also consider a weight training course to help protect them against the potential damage a running program may cause.

THERE YOU GO - SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS THE CORRECT ANSWER. LOL
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southbeach

Landau wrote:
"Cardiovascular exercise DOES cause adaptation, this is evidenced by the plain and simple fact that someone that performs cardio becomes more efficient AT cardio. SO if you genius claim there's no benefit to cardio then WHY DO YOU GET BETTER AT IT WHEN YOU DO IT! Adaptations DO occur so WTF ARE THEY!?"

No - your "Questions" involve specious fantasy outcomes. Is anyone else here with me on this complete IDIOT? Chime in Please!

1. A Person that "runs" does NOT make them Healthier.

On the contrary it does improve artery function.

2. Running is a Useless Affliction

being fit reduces mortality, that's not exactly useless.

Is resistance training also a "useless affliction" iyo? Does resistance training improve health?

3. "Adaptations" are Akin to Pony Express - so WHO cares?

What are resistance adaptations akin to?

4. Running introduces a Host of Maladies - Physical, Pathological, and Mental

Not anymore than other physical activities. Anytime you push the limits in anything you risk injury.

5. There are NO benefits - Quit Dreaming

refuted in #1. you are repeating yourself.

6. You can get away with your "take" on other fanntasy web sites, but your LACK of Viable Thought makes me think several worms have crawled in through your ears and are eating away at your brain matter

Dave, look at your reply. You're not saying anything of substance, amounts to nothing but a rant ;)
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southbeach

physcult wrote:
Natty wrote:
Landau wrote:
Your (Adaptational) Question is a Stupid DEAD END - Why don't you tell me so you CAN STICK YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH. TELL ME! Go Ahead - pretend I don't know or my answer is one you don't agree with. You are one of the Biggest GIGO's on this SITE and you think that if you get the last word in, you win? There seems to be somebody brainwashed here - Clue - it isn't me. You don't seem to get the "Drift."

More classic Landau "waffle" without actually saying anything. Lets look at my previous post:

Natty wrote:
You STILL avoid this question.. WHY does someone that jogs regularly become better at jogging? What adaptations take place to make that person a more effective runner? Obviously adaptations DO take place, so what are they?

Now lets analyze your response:

My question is stupid..

Pretend you don't know the answer..

I'm a big GIGO (WTF is that?)

Last word win..

Brainwashed..

YADA YADA..

So David, no ACTUAL reply to the question then!? LMAO! you're a clueless fool with no idea so all you do is avoid the question, avoid the points, insult, side step, pontificate. Verbal diarrhea..

SO. Mr HIT cult leader wannabe..

Cardiovascular exercise DOES cause adaptation, this is evidenced by the plain and simple fact that someone that performs cardio becomes more efficient AT cardio. SO if you genius claim there's no benefit to cardio then WHY DO YOU GET BETTER AT IT WHEN YOU DO IT! Adaptations DO occur so WTF ARE THEY!?

At least be a man and admit that you just don't know just like a lot of other exercise/lifting related subjects.

Ill have a go at answering!

It should go something like this:

Although jogging may cause some adaptation to the muscles and cardiovascular system, I BELIEVE there are far better alternatives in the weight room, that would achieve far greater results, in a much more efficient manner, whilst having less negative effect.

The time spent jogging could be better spent in the gym. A weight training regime should be planned by an experienced trainer, and MAY actually take less time than a jogging program and provide a longer lasting effect on the metabolism, making it easier to maintain a lean body in the future. It will also provide many adaptations a jogging program alone could not.

I also BELIEVE that running should only be an adjunct to a weight training program due to the imbalances it MAY cause and potential injury risks. It must also be taken into account that if a person wishes to add jogging their fat loss exercise program, they should take into account how many calories the activity uses and diet accordingly. They should also consider a weight training course to help protect them against the potential damage a running program may cause.

THERE YOU GO - SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS THE CORRECT ANSWER. LOL


More BS. No substance.
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N@tural1

Landau wrote:
No - your "Questions" involve specious fantasy outcomes. Is anyone else here with me on this complete IDIOT? Chime in Please!


More pontification because you don't know the answer.

Landau wrote:
1. A Person that "runs" does NOT make them Healthier.


I'm not actually debating the health aspect although I disagree here. I'm talking about physical fitness/performance/efficiency.

Landau wrote:
2. Running is a Useless Affliction


In your cultist jedi opinion. Some would say lifting weights is an affliction.

Landau wrote:
3. "Adaptations" are Akin to Pony Express - so WHO cares?


Adaptations are a result of stimulus. Even your religious SSTF at snails pace results in adaptation believe it or not.

Landau wrote:
4. Running introduces a Host of Maladies - Physical, Pathological, and Mental


ANY sport exercise can.. INCLUDING HIT! NEWSFLASH!

Landau wrote:
5. There are NO benefits - Quit Dreaming


Bullshit, the benefits is that the runner gets better AT RUNNING which to some is more important than weight training. Are your interests all that matter in the world and everyone else that has different interests and goals are fools? That's rather pompous self righteous attitude typical of a HIT jedi wouldn't you say..

Landau wrote:
6. You can get away with your "take" on other fanntasy web sites, but your LACK of Viable Thought makes me think several worms have crawled in through your ears and are eating away at your brain matter


Still no answer than? You're the biggest waste of space I've ever encountered on a forum and that includes Gerry Hitman!
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