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jack32

Hi Tom,
In a previous post, you made reference to the use of systemic enzymes.
Between job tasks today, I found some interesting info regarding the benefits of their use, relating to arthritis, scar tissue buildup and wound healing.

If you've used or are using these enzymes, specific to the above, could you elaborate a bit on the positive benefits?
Thanks!
jack
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Tomislav

New York, USA

jack32 wrote:
Hi Tom,
In a previous post, you made reference to the use of systemic enzymes.
Between job tasks today, I found some interesting info regarding the benefits of their use, relating to arthritis, scar tissue buildup and wound healing.

If you've used or are using these enzymes, specific to the above, could you elaborate a bit on the positive benefits?
Thanks!
jack

Hi Jack,
Sure - yes they enhance all of that; fibrosis/scar tissue builds up not just in our muscle and tendons (particulary there, impedeing what little blood flow there is) but in all epithelial tissue (internal organs, etc). The enzymes work so well at eating away the fibrin they are now routinely used in high dosages post surgery; I find that kind of dosage is effective for helping tendon growth/health.

I've taken them on and off for a few years and will elaborate specifically on how I've used them and how they've helped:

I follow a consolidation style routine and wanted to add some forearm work without changing my routine or adding exercises; while I had good forearm development a few years ago too, it's noticeably better now, particularly near the wrist (thicker tendons) - certainly some of this is from training (power gymnastic moves, etc). Couple of years ago I bought a 2" ez-curl thickbar I took to the gym with me for awhile (hardly use it now) and doing curls and skull crushers with this really engages the forearms.

They would just get really tight and painful after training though; ART sessions (which physically enhance blood flow) helped, and work synergistically with the systemic enzymes - again, you have to take a lot to feel the effect but picture the ART physically enhancing blood flow, and the blood full of systemic enzymes which eat away at the fibrin; that's the synergy.

At 5'8.5 and 200 right now (down from 210) my wrists are 7.25-7.5 (flexed). My wrist size has changed considerably over the past 20 years of training though; when I started college 20 years ago I had lost the muscle I'd put on from gymnastics and weighed 137 lbs - my wrist size then was a little over 6.5".

While I've had a gradual increase in wrist size it's been disproportionally weighted in the last few years and I didn't use the thickbar consistantly for more than a year, tendon development just seems to be encouraged and accelerated by the combination of ART and high doses of systemic enzymes; I don't take the high dosages regularly but can literally feel the difference with the ART when I do.

Training is also a big part, even though I don't use the thick bar very often anymore (tough lugging it to the gym) handstand pushups at 200 lbs+ with splayed fingers also builds the forearms and particulary the tendons near the wrist.

One interesting thought comes to mind regarding that equation about projecting possible measurements based on wrist size; what happens to that equation when you put an inch on your wrist? ;)

I think whatever your training makes possible in terms of tendon development, ART plus systemic enzymes will maximize it (physcult you should give the combination a try).

Wobenzym and Vitalzym are popular brand you can get at Vitamin Shop (not in the enzyme section for some reason though) and there are industrial strength varieties you can order online; if you go with the Wobenzym take handfulls of them to get an effect. I suspect it's tremendously effective by iteself as a preventative against arthritis by virtue of eating the fibrin - reducing the fibrin in general allows for faster healing wherever it is reduced.
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jack32

Thanks Tom!
I've seen the Wobenzyme at my local health store.
32 years ago I survived a car crash (my face broke the windshield) and I suspect the post trauma (arthritis) at age 53, in my neck, along w/ a pinched nerve at c-6,7, suffered last year is finally catching up me w/ me.

I use the "Stick" along w/ massage and perform my own trigger point therapy, which greatly helps, but.... I want to feel better!!
Also, I suffered a nasty fall on my wrist last year and that injury took 3 months to heal up.
Could you suggest a "start-up" dosage to begin with?

IE- do I start at the minimum as advised by the product label and slowly increase by 1 or more tabs until I notice improvement? How quickly until I notice improvement?
Thanks,
jack
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Tomislav

New York, USA

jack32 wrote:
Thanks Tom!
I've seen the Wobenzyme at my local health store.
32 years ago I survived a car crash (my face broke the windshield) and I suspect the post trauma (arthritis) at age 53, in my neck, along w/ a pinched nerve at c-6,7, suffered last year is finally catching up me w/ me.

I use the "Stick" along w/ massage and perform my own trigger point therapy, which greatly helps, but.... I want to feel better!!
Also, I suffered a nasty fall on my wrist last year and that injury took 3 months to heal up.
Could you suggest a "start-up" dosage to begin with?

IE- do I start at the minimum as advised by the product label and slowly increase by 1 or more tabs until I notice improvement? How quickly until I notice improvement?
Thanks,
jack


Jack,
That's a tough question to answer but you definitely need nigh dosages, not what is advised on the label.

Here is a link with some info on Vitalzym, similar to Wobenzym but a little stronger (think 1 tab = 3 or 4, not sure, you will have to compare - you should be able to find both brands on the shelf).

http://www.energeticnutrition....

See the section on the activation dosages most closely associated with your condition - looks like they are recommending up to 30 a day of this stronger brand.

Better if you can find a Dr familar with the dosages used; here is one such physicians site that has some good info on the reasoning behind the large dosages and some case examples that seem similar to yours:

http://www.newswithviews.com/...ne/james175.htm

Some interesting related info there (for both athletic purposes and the kind of fibrin breakdown you are looking for) on estrogen and estradiol-B working against the enzymes by increasing fibrin deposits!
No end to the wonders of Soya; guess it's not just for lowering T levels (soya is pro-hormone that converts to Estradiol-B and it's added to most foods).

After reading that I would think avoiding soya as much as possible and maca saturation (cheap enough supplement) to route what soya estrogen can't be avoided seems like it should accompany the enzyme therapy even if you don't care about T levels and just want to break up the scar tissue.

I think you will notice results within weeks if you take the effective dose for your condition; the massage you are getting should start to become more effective with the systemic enzymes in your blood.
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jack32

Hey Tom,
Many thanks again for your time and the links.
I recall your prior comments on Soya based products.
I avoid them like the plague!
Besides, I enjoy my meats, cheeses and eggs. No need for soy!
jack
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Acerimmer1

Fish oil does the same thing, doesn't it?
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Acerimmer1 wrote:
Fish oil does the same thing, doesn't it?

Ace,

Think you're referring to it's ability to increase circulation and prevent fibrin formation in the kidneys.

I think the systemic enzymes are more effective for reducing fibrin/scar tissue but it's interesting that there is the same contraindication on megadosages and hemophelliacs.

I've heard a lot of good things attributed to fish oil but my favorite effect has to be macro nutrition - how effortless it is to get an extra 1200 calories with just a few shotglasses of it ;)
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Acerimmer1

Tomislav wrote:
Acerimmer1 wrote:
Fish oil does the same thing, doesn't it?
Ace,

Think you're referring to it's ability to increase circulation and prevent fibrin formation in the kidneys.

I think the systemic enzymes are more effective for reducing fibrin/scar tissue but it's interesting that there is the same contraindication on megadosages and hemophelliacs.

I've heard a lot of good things attributed to fish oil but my favorite effect has to be macro nutrition - how effortless it is to get an extra 1200 calories with just a few shotglasses of it ;)


My understanding was that it is claimed fish oil among other things is strongly anti-inflammatory and enhances the activity of plasmin. Don't know how true it is though.
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physcult

Acerimmer1 wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
Acerimmer1 wrote:
Fish oil does the same thing, doesn't it?
Ace,

Think you're referring to it's ability to increase circulation and prevent fibrin formation in the kidneys.

I think the systemic enzymes are more effective for reducing fibrin/scar tissue but it's interesting that there is the same contraindication on megadosages and hemophelliacs.

I've heard a lot of good things attributed to fish oil but my favorite effect has to be macro nutrition - how effortless it is to get an extra 1200 calories with just a few shotglasses of it ;)


My understanding was that it is claimed fish oil among other things is strongly anti-inflammatory and enhances the activity of plasmin. Don't know how true it is though.


I think that is SUPPOSED to be correct, although I dont think it has to be fish oil, it can also be flax, hemp, maccademia or any of the omega 3/6 (& 9?). The inflammatory oil, Arcachidonic acid is the one touted as having anabolic/drug qualities by the steroid book chap (Bill Llwellyn).

I have messed around with omega 3/6/9 combinations since the Udo oil book came out (fats that heal and fats that kill) and like most supplements I never found any MARVELOUS dramatic effects as hyped in the marketing. I noticed two things whilst taking 3 tablespoons of oil a day, my skin went like velvet and my hair shiny (So great for dogs ;). I presume 3 tablespoons of any oil would do a similar job.

As for all the other claimed benefits of fat loss, anti-inflammation, dropping water, favourable hormonal increases and/or decreases etc etc - NOTHING NOTICEABLE - ZIPPO. Although I know two women who put on fat when adding 3 tablespoons of Udos oil (approx 300kcals a day) contrary to Udo's claims. (not happy)

The Arachodonic acid also has nil noticeable effect (other than perhaps to keep Bill Llewllyn in D'bol money)

I still take fish oil because it seems to make sense but as far as effects, I think its more an article of faith.

As a matter of fact off the top of my head Creatine is the only supplement that actually has a noticeable effect - (perhaps some tribulus, a little bit) unless anybody reminds me otherwise?
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