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Protein Debate
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stevecollins33

There is some debate over on T-Nation following the recent publication of an article concerning protein. This includes more evidence that the long-standing belief that the body can only process 20g in one sitting is in fact still valid.
I mentioned Dr D's famous protein experiment, and see Bill Roberts has posted a rather dismissive retort.
I'm not trying to stir up a slagging match here but it would be good to hear some counter-argument to Roberts's claims.
Link below:

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/...ein_per_sitting
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sgb2112

http://leangains.blogspot.com/...ne-article.html

^Eats twice a day within an 8 hour window and competes naturally^.

I call BS! And what a way to live, eating 8-10 times a day.


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crazeeJZ

sgb2112 wrote:
http://leangains.blogspot.com/...ne-article.html

^Eats twice a day within an 8 hour window and competes naturally^.

I call BS! And what a way to live, eating 8-10 times a day.




He competes naturally? I call BS!

Lol, couldn't help it, since it's been said many natural competitions aren't really natural.

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sgb2112

Competes in the UNDER 70KG class. Less than 70 kilo's cannot be done clean? Really?
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Acerimmer1

You're not going to give us the link to the original article then?
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dhitquinn

I personally think whatever your bodyweight is in kgs half it and then you have the number of grams per meal you should eat

example 100kg half is 50kg so 50grams per meal, thats what i do, dunno whether it is right but i will stick with it. after a heavy leg session though i will eat a gram per kilo so a 100gram protein shake post workout.
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overfiftylifter

I think this is the study.

Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009.

Overfiftylifter
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overfiftylifter

The study.

Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men.

Daniel R Moore, Meghann J Robinson, Jessica L Fry, Jason E Tang, Elisa I Glover, Sarah B Wilkinson, Todd Prior, Mark A Tarnopolsky and Stuart M Phillips
1 From the Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology (DRM, MJR, JLF, JET, EIG, SBW, TP, and SMP), and Departments of Neurology and Pediatrics (MAT), McMaster University, Hamilton, Canada.

Background: The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein.

Objectives: We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS.

Design: Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]leucine.

Results: MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr389), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser240/244), and the -subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser539) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested.

Conclusions: Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.

Overfiftylifter-hope this helps.
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Raider22

Ohio, USA

The study didn't say anything about protein 6-8 times a day.

I eat 2-3 meals a day and I feel I am fairly lean for my age. I do think leangains is onto something.

I tried to eat 6 meals a day and just didn't feel like my digestive system was handling all of troughs feeding. I felt bloated all the time.
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the_iron_goose

Irregardlessly irregardless of the validity of this study but at the same time completely relevant and focused to the point from a distant point of view, are there any similar studies for fats and carbs? For instance, am I only making a needless fuss to have one donut because I am on a diet, perhaps I should have a dozen donuts all at once primarily because I am on a diet on the basis that the body will simply not be able to asborb more carbs and or fats from more than one donut...if all the donuts are taken at once ?
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the_iron_goose

Where is southbeach at a time like this? Usually all one need do is merely imply the word study and southbeach is there...must be sick.
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Waynes

Switzerland

Why not take your BW and BF, and if your only eating 100 grams of protein per day, go up to 200 very slowly, you might find like I did you add more muscle.

That extra 100 grams could be 5 pints or 5.5 litres of milk and day.

Wayne
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southbeach

the_iron_goose wrote:
Where is southbeach at a time like this? Usually all one need do is merely imply the word study and southbeach is there...must be sick.


Grouse, I see you PM'd me asking for me to back you up ;)

Sorry, I don't know how much protein the body can absorb at any one sitting, nor have I come across any studies of the same.

That's one aspect of my diet that I don't worry about.



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physcult

the_iron_goose wrote:
Irregardlessly irregardless of the validity of this study but at the same time completely relevant and focused to the point from a distant point of view, are there any similar studies for fats and carbs? For instance, am I only making a needless fuss to have one donut because I am on a diet, perhaps I should have a dozen donuts all at once primarily because I am on a diet on the basis that the body will simply not be able to asborb more carbs and or fats from more than one donut...if all the donuts are taken at once ?


Surely the body would absorb the amount of donut it needs, then pass the rest out, or store it for future use. Should be the same for protein. This doesnt tell anyone how much they can absorb at any given time.

Many bodybuilders have always believed they can absorb more than the 20gm. This could be marketing from supplement companies or because steroids alter uptake, or even that its true. The current thinking probably suggests it doesnt matter because eating high protein diets help some people stay lean.
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physcult

Waynes wrote:
Why not take your BW and BF, and if your only eating 100 grams of protein per day, go up to 200 very slowly, you might find like I did you add more muscle.

That extra 100 grams could be 5 pints or 5.5 litres of milk and day.

Wayne


you also increased kcals, carbs and fat, how do you know its the protein?
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the_iron_goose

southbeach wrote:
the_iron_goose wrote:
Where is southbeach at a time like this? Usually all one need do is merely imply the word study and southbeach is there...must be sick.

Grouse, I see you PM'd me asking for me to back you up ;)

Sorry, I don't know how much protein the body can absorb at any one sitting, nor have I come across any studies of the same.

That's one aspect of my diet that I don't worry about.





I'm not asking you to back me up, I'm asking if you know of any similar studies for carbs and fats. Or if you know why there would be a limit on just protein.
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Waynes

Switzerland

physcult wrote:
Waynes wrote:
Why not take your BW and BF, and if your only eating 100 grams of protein per day, go up to 200 very slowly, you might find like I did you add more muscle.

That extra 100 grams could be 5 pints or 5.5 litres of milk and day.

Wayne


you also increased kcals, carbs and fat, how do you know its the protein?


Yes you are right there, as I do not its only the extra protein that ads muscle and fat when you start to up your protein, with additional fats and carbs.

But I think the secret is doing the increasing slow.

On the milk think, I was thinking of low fat, thus lots of extra protein and carbs only.

Wayne


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