MB Madaera
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Chris Madaera
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Keelan Parham
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Bob Marchesello
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Jeff Turner
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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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SteveHIT

Training camps: High Intensity, Super slow, faster reps, multiple sets, Single sets, Higher Volume, lower volume (I could go on all day, but you get the point).

Why do we all have to belong to a certain training camp?

Training is not a team sport! ok even if you had a coach, a nutritionist, a trainer, or whatever, your on your own when it comes to pushing yourself hard when training (even if you have a training partner to help push you, its really up to you, and what about when they arent there?), when getting all your food/protein, when going to bed to get all your sleep, when getting your rest and when keeping a positive attitude.

On the plus side, you can take all the credit for what you achieve.

Some people seem to think there is only one ultimate way to train, obviously this isnt true. Ive been doing very well on a breathing Squat program so I started a thread about squatting, try it if you want, but I dont interrupt every thread saying "your not gaining because your not doing a breathing squat program".Its something you might want to try, but its not the only way!

What about science and studies?

I could take identical twins and put twin a)on a multiple set fast rep program,stopping one rep before failure 2 days a week. And twin b) on a slower rep single set program to failure 2 days a week.

In 6 months:

Twin a) goes from 200lbs bodyweight to 210lbs.

Twin b) goes from 200lbs bodyweight to
230lbs.

Twin b) gained three times as much, so that way is right, my study proved it!

But I didnt mention that twin a) has a manual labour job he hates, gets 5-6 hours sleep a night, eats 2000 calories a day, gets 80 grams of protein a day, and has a negative attitude.
Twin b) on the other hand, has an office job he enjoys, gets 8-9 hours sleep a night, worked up to 4000 calories a day, 250 grams of protein a day, and has a very positive attitude.
(I dont want to get into a protein debate if higher protein helps keep it, if not leave it, end of)

Science doesnt always get it right, thats why some pills get recalled even after science says they are safe to go to the public.

The only way to find out things that work for YOU is to experiment yourself, even then different approaches to training will work differently at different points in your life.

So what camp are you?
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Crotalus

I'm from the HFT camp ; Hard Fucking Training .

Whether it's single sets , multiple sets , whole body, split, JREPS. machines, barbells, anvils, chains, sandbags, or scrap metal ... if it's done hard it works.

Some HIT guys are just to bullheaded to admit there are other ways besides their way to go about it. I also used to be that way and so glad I threw those blinders away. Unimagined progress resumed after I thought I hit my genetic limits when I realized even my trainer / author idols Darden, Jones and Leistner didn't know EXACTLY what was best for me and that what they wrote was a great training guide line, not a religion carved in stone not to be altered.

I still can't see why anyone else give a shit how the next guy trains. I've been training 25 years and never once tried to shove my way down the throat of a volume trainer and neither did they to me. The only place I see these clashes is on these forums and usually it's between HIT fanatics.

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SteveHIT

Crotalus wrote:
I'm from the HFT camp ; Hard Fucking Training .

Whether it's single sets , multiple sets , whole body, split, JREPS. machines, barbells, anvils, chains, sandbags, or scrap metal ... if it's done hard it works.




Im with you, H.F.T it is! Lol.
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Yes

I'm in the IWARRN(WOTR)-camp.

"I want awesome results right now(without taking roids)"

Buisness has been pretty good lately.

To me it's not about how much or how hard i'd have to work. What matters is what I have to do in order to get results, and i'll happily do what it takes - within reason.
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Acerimmer1

We do not all have to belong to a camp. I am living proof of that.
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Waynes

Switzerland

I am not in any camp, however I used to sneak into the girls camp when we were away on schools holidays, but thats another story.

I am here to debate, learn, and be learned.

But there are some people here that have clue, and some that do not answer questions, and some who will not admit they are wrong, I was once sort of like that. The thing that gets me is how wound up some people get, I mean we all have the same goals, and do the same sport, but some act as if we hate each other and are fighting a War in the Middle Ages.

Wayne
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Acerimmer1 wrote:
We do not all have to belong to a camp. I am living proof of that.


That's right. All Ace needs is himself and his own little pup tent and let the camping fun begin!


In answer to the OQ: Jacob
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Turpin

stevehit wrote:
Training camps: High Intensity, Super slow, faster reps, multiple sets, Single sets, Higher Volume, lower volume (I could go on all day, but you get the point).

Why do we all have to belong to a certain training camp?

Training is not a team sport! ok even if you had a coach, a nutritionist, a trainer, or whatever, your on your own when it comes to pushing yourself hard when training (even if you have a training partner to help push you, its really up to you, and what about when they arent there?), when getting all your food/protein, when going to bed to get all your sleep, when getting your rest and when keeping a positive attitude.

On the plus side, you can take all the credit for what you achieve.

Some people seem to think there is only one ultimate way to train, obviously this isnt true. Ive been doing very well on a breathing Squat program so I started a thread about squatting, try it if you want, but I dont interrupt every thread saying "your not gaining because your not doing a breathing squat program".Its something you might want to try, but its not the only way!

What about science and studies?

I could take identical twins and put twin a)on a multiple set fast rep program,stopping one rep before failure 2 days a week. And twin b) on a slower rep single set program to failure 2 days a week.

In 6 months:

Twin a) goes from 200lbs bodyweight to 210lbs.

Twin b) goes from 200lbs bodyweight to
230lbs.

Twin b) gained three times as much, so that way is right, my study proved it!

But I didnt mention that twin a) has a manual labour job he hates, gets 5-6 hours sleep a night, eats 2000 calories a day, gets 80 grams of protein a day, and has a negative attitude.
Twin b) on the other hand, has an office job he enjoys, gets 8-9 hours sleep a night, worked up to 4000 calories a day, 250 grams of protein a day, and has a very positive attitude.
(I dont want to get into a protein debate if higher protein helps keep it, if not leave it, end of)

Science doesnt always get it right, thats why some pills get recalled even after science says they are safe to go to the public.

The only way to find out things that work for YOU is to experiment yourself, even then different approaches to training will work differently at different points in your life.

So what camp are you?


Hi Steve ,
Im a firm believer in strength gains preceding gains in `functional` muscle growth and hence I consequently train for such ( functional strength)
I see no point in `throwing` weights around with reckless abandon but nor do I see any point in limiting ones poundage by restrictive tempo. Instead I choose to train using heavy enough ( for me ) weight that allows good form and concentrate heavily thereafter on attaining full recuperation , which is chartable by realisation in progression in the resistance and/or reps used over a period of time.

Best wishes , T.

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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

ha this is funny cuz HITers by their nature are notorious non-joiners, non-conformists who all join by default.

good luck w/ this one

josh
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SteveHIT

Turpin wrote:
I see no point in `throwing` weights around with reckless abandon but nor do I see any point in limiting ones poundage by restrictive tempo.




Hi Turpin,

This is exactly as I do.
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Crotalus

stevehit wrote:
Turpin wrote:
I see no point in `throwing` weights around with reckless abandon but nor do I see any point in limiting ones poundage by restrictive tempo.


' Restrictive Tempo ' ... That has to be the best phrase describing of what 'too slow' of a rep speed is that I ever read.

I remember years ago when the whole SS thing started getting a lot of publicity ( I was then training that way and loving it ) Dr. Ken stating in one of his articles - I believe it was in one of Ted Lambrinides HIT Newsletters - that he'd always favor more weight utilizing a little 'kick' behind it than much less weight done very slow.

' Restrictive tempo ' .... reps done too slowly . I think you just coined a new phrase !
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Acerimmer1

Joshua Trentine wrote:
ha this is funny cuz HITers by their nature are notorious non-joiners, non-conformists who all join by default.

good luck w/ this one

josh


Agreed
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SteveHIT

Am I what anyone considers HIT?

I split my routine (2 days per week),
I dont rush between exercises, I rest enough so I can use as much weight as possible, I also dont purposely slow my reps, but I control the weight no dropping and bouncing,I dont pre-exhaust, I do one set to failure, (2 sets on bench press and shoulder press), I use an ez curl bar (Sorry Mike Mentzer and Arthur, LOL)!

Just wondering what different people think. . . .
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Crotalus

If you're going all out you're definitely in the HFT group. You might also be in the HIT group, I guess it depends on who you're looking for approval from. For some who post here, none of us are training HIT ; reps are too low, too high , too fast, turnaround is too fast , you don't vomit after the third exercise, train more than six times a months, etc.

Only mistake I see you might be making is giving a shit who approves of what you do, LOL.

If it's working well for you, keep doing it.

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SteveHIT

Crotalus wrote:

Only mistake I see you might be making is giving a shit who approves of what you do, LOL.



Im not looking for approval.
I was just Interested what other people see the way I train as.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

stevehit wrote:
Am I what anyone considers HIT?

I split my routine (2 days per week)...


Define your "split". Contrary to popular belief you don't have to train EVERY bodypart EVERY workout.

You could "split" your body in half, but still hit most major muscles to some degree each workout.

I dont rush between exercises, I rest enough so I can use as much weight as possible, I also dont purposely slow my reps, but I control the weight no dropping and bouncing,I dont pre-exhaust, I do one set to failure, (2 sets on bench press and shoulder press), I use an ez curl bar (Sorry Mike Mentzer and Arthur, LOL)!

I'm with you on the EZ bar for very specific reasons.

I do 3-5 sets on Bench Press and still consider my workouts quite HIT.

Just wondering what different people think...

Like C. said, don't worry what others think. On the other hand, it's good to get a consensus of what others do --- from there, just take what you like and toss the rest!

Scott

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SteveHIT

simon-hecubus wrote:
stevehit wrote:
Am I what anyone considers HIT?

I split my routine (2 days per week)...

Define your "split". Contrary to popular belief you don't have to train EVERY bodypart EVERY workout.

You could "split" your body in half, but still hit most major muscles to some degree each workout.

I dont rush between exercises, I rest enough so I can use as much weight as possible, I also dont purposely slow my reps, but I control the weight no dropping and bouncing,I dont pre-exhaust, I do one set to failure, (2 sets on bench press and shoulder press), I use an ez curl bar (Sorry Mike Mentzer and Arthur, LOL)!

I'm with you on the EZ bar for very specific reasons.

I do 3-5 sets on Bench Press and still consider my workouts quite HIT.

Just wondering what different people think...

Like C. said, don't worry what others think. On the other hand, it's good to get a consensus of what others do --- from there, just take what you like and toss the rest!

Scott



Hi Scott,

My split goes as follows. . .

Workout a)Tuesday
Bench press
Back rows
Seated Shoulder press
Chins
Calf raises

Workout b)Friday
Squat (Breathing style)
Stiff legged Deadlift
Shrugs
Curls
Static Barbell Hold

Not exactly two full body routines,
but progress has been great.
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Turpin

stevehit wrote:
Am I what anyone considers HIT?

I split my routine (2 days per week),
I dont rush between exercises, I rest enough so I can use as much weight as possible, I also dont purposely slow my reps, but I control the weight no dropping and bouncing,I dont pre-exhaust, I do one set to failure, (2 sets on bench press and shoulder press), I use an ez curl bar (Sorry Mike Mentzer and Arthur, LOL)!

Just wondering what different people think. . . .


Steve you most definately are performing H.I.T .
That would be `Honest , Individualist Training`.

Keep it up mate , T.

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SteveHIT

Turpin wrote:
stevehit wrote:
Am I what anyone considers HIT?

I split my routine (2 days per week),
I dont rush between exercises, I rest enough so I can use as much weight as possible, I also dont purposely slow my reps, but I control the weight no dropping and bouncing,I dont pre-exhaust, I do one set to failure, (2 sets on bench press and shoulder press), I use an ez curl bar (Sorry Mike Mentzer and Arthur, LOL)!

Just wondering what different people think. . . .

Steve you most definately are performing H.I.T .
That would be `Honest , Individualist Training`.

Keep it up mate , T.



Cheers mate.
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BOLDERNECK

Virginia, USA

what do you guys think of this,i train 5 times a week [30 minutes a sesson,2 body parts a time] i increase weight every week at least 1/2 pound [ therefore i am improving weekly] i am 41,5' 7'' @175 due to my health background i can not perform the core movements...i feel like its working...would you call this hit [i do about 5 sets per group,3 warmups and 1-2 work sets, of 1 excercise] each body part is trained every 7 days!
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

stevehit wrote:
Hi Scott,

My split goes as follows. . .

Workout a)Tuesday
Bench press
Back rows
Seated Shoulder press
Chins
Calf raises

Workout b)Friday
Squat (Breathing style)
Stiff legged Deadlift
Shrugs
Curls
Static Barbell Hold

Not exactly two full body routines,
but progress has been great.


That last sentence is key. As long as you keep progressing, all other questions lose importance.

The main crossover I see are in your traps and mid-back area. These are getting HIT in the Back Rows and Shoulder Press one workout and in the DLs and Shrugs the next. Just keep an eye on your progress on those exercises.

[EDIT]
P.S.
To me, the Static BB Holds seem a bit redundant after the static holding you're already doing for the DLs and Shrugs.

Perhaps a dynamic movement like Reverse Wrist Curls (forearm extension) would be something to try. It would balance the forearm flexion you already train with the aforementioned exercises.

If you like the standing position, then maybe Standing WCs would be good... maybe even alternated with the Rev WCs.
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SteveHIT

simon-hecubus wrote:
stevehit wrote:
Hi Scott,

My split goes as follows. . .

Workout a)Tuesday
Bench press
Back rows
Seated Shoulder press
Chins
Calf raises

Workout b)Friday
Squat (Breathing style)
Stiff legged Deadlift
Shrugs
Curls
Static Barbell Hold

Not exactly two full body routines,
but progress has been great.

That last sentence is key. As long as you keep progressing, all other questions lose importance.

The main crossover I see are in your traps and mid-back area. These are getting HIT in the Back Rows and Shoulder Press one workout and in the DLs and Shrugs the next. Just keep an eye on your progress on those exercises.

[EDIT]
P.S.
To me, the Static BB Holds seem a bit redundant after the static holding you're already doing for the DLs and Shrugs.

Perhaps a dynamic movement like Reverse Wrist Curls (forearm extension) would be something to try. It would balance the forearm flexion you already train with the aforementioned exercises.

If you like the standing position, then maybe Standing WCs would be good... maybe even alternated with the Rev WCs.


I use hooks for the shrugs to work the traps fully, thats why I throw in the static barbell hold.
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