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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Don't Need no Stinkin Belt
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

Or.... Messin with (duo) Poly

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=wROgZJilUPA

I modified the duo poly hip and back that Josh so kindly gave me. It has always been a pain to get the belt sufficiently tight to hold the hips down for the exercise. I have been messing around with changing pads or adding them to stabilize limbs in various exercises. This fits me fine but may be prohibitive for a larger trainee.

This is also what I am using for duo poly leg extension as you will see later in the video. I have also used this type of pad configuration on my multi exercise unit (plateloading) for a conventional both legs at the same time braced leg extension.

It is so nice not to have to struggle to maintain body position or fight belt slippage as the pads really direct the work in a much more effective way..
CS
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Waynes

Switzerland

Very very clever love it.

If you have not got an inverter {welder} and have the chance to pick one up cheap, they are very good. You can weld VERY thick gage steel {mild steel} and very thin gage steel with them. And cast welding is quite hard, but on these machines as they have an anti stick system, its far easier.

Wayne
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kurtvf

chasbari wrote:
Or.... Messin with (duo) Poly

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=wROgZJilUPA

I modified the duo poly hip and back that Josh so kindly gave me. It has always been a pain to get the belt sufficiently tight to hold the hips down for the exercise. I have been messing around with changing pads or adding them to stabilize limbs in various exercises. This fits me fine but may be prohibitive for a larger trainee.

This is also what I am using for duo poly leg extension as you will see later in the video. I have also used this type of pad configuration on my multi exercise unit (plateloading) for a conventional both legs at the same time braced leg extension.

It is so nice not to have to struggle to maintain body position or fight belt slippage as the pads really direct the work in a much more effective way..
CS



Brilliant!! I also hate that damn belt. I was thinking of an arm with a pad to hold me down, but your solution seems better. I think AJ would have approved!
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

kurtvf wrote:
chasbari wrote:
Or.... Messin with (duo) Poly

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=wROgZJilUPA

I modified the duo poly hip and back that Josh so kindly gave me. It has always been a pain to get the belt sufficiently tight to hold the hips down for the exercise. I have been messing around with changing pads or adding them to stabilize limbs in various exercises. This fits me fine but may be prohibitive for a larger trainee.

This is also what I am using for duo poly leg extension as you will see later in the video. I have also used this type of pad configuration on my multi exercise unit (plateloading) for a conventional both legs at the same time braced leg extension.

It is so nice not to have to struggle to maintain body position or fight belt slippage as the pads really direct the work in a much more effective way..
CS


Brilliant!! I also hate that damn belt. I was thinking of an arm with a pad to hold me down, but your solution seems better. I think AJ would have approved!


Kurt,
I initially tried to put the belt through a long roller pad to create more stability and then I was going to put a padded bar as you are suggesting when it struck me that I should try to weld the present set up onto the movement arm itself as I had already done with bicep and tricep and my seated leg curl.
It was a bit tricky getting the proper positioning to allow for as full a range of motion as possible without causing extreme occlusional pain in the calf muscle for the leg extension. I had to cut and re-weld one time as my first attempt caused unbearable pain in the calf when doing leg extensions.
Now I flip the arm over from one exercise to the other and seem to have found just the right spot for both that way. I can't tell you how much better both exercises feel without having to fight to keep the rest of the body stable. Nothing moves and there is no stress trying to hold myself down as there is on a traditional seated leg press or hip and back.
CS
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marcrph

Portugal

Dude! Awesome!
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hdled

You are a clever man! They could have used you at Nautilus in the 70's.
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Spidercam

Hi Chasbari

GREAT IDEA

I wonder how it would work with lockable thigh pads to form one single bar.
Also some modification on the chain length to give full ROM.
Do you think you would still need like a six inch wide velcro belt strap to stop hip flexion when the load gets heavy?
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!


I knew this machines would be getting some great use.

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jastrain

Spidercam wrote:
Hi Chasbari

GREAT IDEA

I wonder how it would work with lockable thigh pads to form one single bar.
Also some modification on the chain length to give full ROM.
Do you think you would still need like a six inch wide velcro belt strap to stop hip flexion when the load gets heavy?


thats what i was wondering also? when the weight is very heavy would it put too much stress on the leg, would the pad dig painfully into the leg?you can move some heavy weight with that machine. did you pin the entire stack for a 1 rep max and see how your invention worked?
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

jastrain wrote:
Spidercam wrote:
Hi Chasbari

GREAT IDEA

I wonder how it would work with lockable thigh pads to form one single bar.
Also some modification on the chain length to give full ROM.
Do you think you would still need like a six inch wide velcro belt strap to stop hip flexion when the load gets heavy?

thats what i was wondering also? when the weight is very heavy would it put too much stress on the leg, would the pad dig painfully into the leg?you can move some heavy weight with that machine. did you pin the entire stack for a 1 rep max and see how your invention worked?



I am not so sure I would actually have to put a one piece thigh bar on to accomplish what you are suggesting. I will try adding an assist lever to get in under a full ROM for non duo poly and will adjust the chain length (with master links) to allow it to be either/or. The independent movement arms will still allow for balanced load instead of weak side/strong side compensation. Thigh positioning is important when using this type of bracing instead of a belt as rotating into eversion creates a situation where there is undue pressure on the femoral artery creating discomfort at least. May take me a few days to get the mechanics of the assist lever worked out and done but I will update here if it is successful.
CS
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

Just a quick response for now with better details and possible video to follow. I found a much simpler way to evoke the necessary change in ROM without having to remove any chain. I placed an extra back pad propped at the rear so that my head was much higher than the flat pad.

This effectively bent me at the hips much more and allowed for a more conventional both legs/hips at the same time action instead of duo poly. I am humbled that at my meager body weight of 138 lbs that I could not quite perform a full repetition with the whole weight stack but two plates shy of that I could perform multiple repetitions with no slippage in body position whatsoever.

Very stable with the thigh pads as they presently are as in the video. The hips stay down quite nicely. Didn't try leg extension yet as I am going to make a frame for the present pad that will allow for adjustment of the tilt once in the machine. I will use a treadmill incline motor to be able to adjust the tilt once in place. Should work quite well.
CS
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Very Nice!

Regards,
Andrew
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Waynes

Switzerland


Waynes wrote:
Very very clever love it.

If you have not got an inverter {welder} and have the chance to pick one up cheap, they are very good. You can weld VERY thick gage steel {mild steel} and very thin gage steel with them. And cast welding is quite hard, but on these machines as they have an anti stick system, its far easier.

Wayne


Forgot to say that if any of you are thinking of fabricating a machine, that these new type welders I was talking about above are far lighter and smaller, the old type was about 35 to 50 pounds and these are about 5 to 10 pounds in weight.

Also if your thinking of getting a mig welder and have not got 3 phase power, the migs that you would buy are not very good at all, very low voltage and not much penetration when welding, thus your joints will be quite weak. So if you have not got 3 phase power, got for an inverter or electric welder.

Wayne
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

i want it back now! jk : )

do gotta come try it though
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

Joshua Trentine wrote:
i want it back now! jk : )

do gotta come try it though


You'll have to do battle with my boys! They are making good use of the equipment, thanks to you!
Stop by whenever you happen to be in the area. You know you are always welcome.

CS
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HSDAD

An ingenious and elegant solution. Could it be even further improved with a hinge on each pad? That is if the pads could rotate 90 degrees to be inline with your vertical posts for mounting the machine, then rotated down and latched once the lifter is in position?
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

chasbari wrote:
Joshua Trentine wrote:
i want it back now! jk : )

do gotta come try it though

You'll have to do battle with my boys! They are making good use of the equipment, thanks to you!
Stop by whenever you happen to be in the area. You know you are always welcome.

CS



have you went directly from hip&back to your duo poly lp yet?

or better yet

duo poly leg ext
duo poly hip and back
duo poly leg press

ya, thats what i want to try!
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kurtvf

Waynes wrote:

Also if your thinking of getting a mig welder and have not got 3 phase power, the migs that you would buy are not very good at all, very low voltage and not much penetration when welding, thus your joints will be quite weak. So if you have not got 3 phase power, got for an inverter or electric welder.

Wayne


Totally incorrect. My family runs an auto body shop and the MIG welder they have and use for car frames and car bodies is 110v single phase. The arc welder we used 20-30 years ago was 220v single phase. You do NOT need 3 phase for welders.
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kurtvf

HSDAD wrote:
An ingenious and elegant solution. Could it be even further improved with a hinge on each pad? That is if the pads could rotate 90 degrees to be inline with your vertical posts for mounting the machine, then rotated down and latched once the lifter is in position?


My thought exactly. If the square tubing could be twisted 90 degrees or if a round piece was interposed so the pads could be stored parallel to the thighs, then upon entering the machine you lower them and turn them 90 degreees.

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kurtvf

Spidercam wrote:
Hi Chasbari

GREAT IDEA

I wonder how it would work with lockable thigh pads to form one single bar.
Also some modification on the chain length to give full ROM.
Do you think you would still need like a six inch wide velcro belt strap to stop hip flexion when the load gets heavy?


Is a single bar Hip and Back better than duo/poly?? Never used one but I assumed since AJ abandoned the single arm machine for the D/P I thought the D/P was better.

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jn6047


Forgot to say that if any of you are thinking of fabricating a machine, that these new type welders I was talking about above are far lighter and smaller, the old type was about 35 to 50 pounds and these are about 5 to 10 pounds in weight.

Also if your thinking of getting a mig welder and have not got 3 phase power, the migs that you would buy are not very good at all, very low voltage and not much penetration when welding, thus your joints will be quite weak. So if you have not got 3 phase power, got for an inverter or electric welder.

Wayne
[/quote]


Mig welders are the way to go for this type of work. You do not need 3 phase power. At my day job I recently purchased a welder from a customer that wanted to upgrade to the newest model. It's a 4 year old Millermatic 251 mig welder, 300amp single phase 220volt. It's way more welder than I need, but your always better off having more capacity then less.

jn6047
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chasbari

Ohio, USA

kurtvf wrote:
Spidercam wrote:
Hi Chasbari

GREAT IDEA

I wonder how it would work with lockable thigh pads to form one single bar.
Also some modification on the chain length to give full ROM.
Do you think you would still need like a six inch wide velcro belt strap to stop hip flexion when the load gets heavy?

Is a single bar Hip and Back better than duo/poly?? Never used one but I assumed since AJ abandoned the single arm machine for the D/P I thought the D/P was better.



I think it was a pragmatic solution with the switch, commercially, to duo poly. The supergeared hip and back with the single movement arm was a beast to get into and out of under load and because of the belt situation very difficult to stabilize hence not very practical in a commercial installation. Duo poly made the machine more commercially viable if not less effective as my low back and hips are screaming to me at present. I could go out an melt the snow with my lower back at present... hee, hee.

This whole series of stabilizing experiments is leading me to understand that isolation is best accomplished by proper pad placement. Pad proximal isolation almost makes the good form/bad form argument irrelevent and this is from a former elite member of the form patrol. Isolation on the belted duo poly hip and back takes much learning and compromise of directed load. The unbelted version mercilessly directs work to the intended muscles in a very brute sort of way.

As to welders. I have an old stick welder that is 220 and I can burn through just about anything I need to at this point. I would love to eventually have a MIG set up but am in no hurry as long as I can still buy the good old "idiot stick" 7014 rod. That's what the gentleman who taught me welding oh, so many years ago called it. Best advice he gave me was "don't give me none of them birdshit welds. Crank up the heat and get good penetration. You can always fill in your mistakes." I can tell I had a long layoff because I am still getting to the point where I can once again lay down a welding pass, hit it with the chip hammer and not need to do any finish grinding. It's going to take a while to really get my welding chops back to that again.
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