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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
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DB vs. BB Bench Press
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

The BB bench press has a bit of a rep for causing injury to rotator cuffs. Of course a lot of that is due to too much load, and crappy technique. But I also feel that beyond those obvious issues, that the BB version of bench press can screw with your shoulder simply because holding a single, solid piece of steel, but it's very nature restricts shoulder and joint movement, and can therefore force you into a "groove" that's simply not good for some folks.

But dumbbells allow you more mobility, and are thus less likely to cause this problem in my opinion. Anyone else agree with this?
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davise

The big thing is is that you can do any kind of press with dumbbells with a parallel grip. For me this is important to shoulder health.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Yeah, I agree. I start out at top with palms facing forward, but rotate wrists as I come down until they're facing each other. I get a much better, groove in my chest that way. I also find that if I slightly elevate my head with a tucked chin, that also gets the movement more into chest, and less into anterior delts.

I also like the arc of DB flys - kinda like the hammer machine bench press - that makes it almost like a combination of both the bench press and DB fly.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
The heavier I got in bench presses the more often I would get injured with them. It's possible my form got worse as it got heavier but that's hard to eliminate. It seems to be a movement that is too easy to get hurt on so I stopped doing them. The idea is to get bigger and stronger, not injured all the time.

Now if I do chest presses I do them on my Nautilus double chest. The machine makes it harder to use sloppy form and I like how the thumbs are facing up plus I can help push out a few more reps if I want to with the foot pad.
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southbeach

AJ wasn't big in the bench press was he? i believe he said the DECLINE was far superior to the flat bench. The decline resembles the DIP more than the flat bench.

Anyone here do BEHIND NECK PRESSES? I love those but places a stretch on the shoulders which might lead to potential future problems. But doesn't seem to bother mine, actually i like the stretched feeling.
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lesterware

A cousin who was an old time strong man said they didn't have benches in the old days and did a press off the floor called the prone press and overhead presses He said almost nobody had the shoulder problems you see today from benching.
Lester Ware
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

lesterware wrote:
A cousin who was an old time strong man said they didn't have benches in the old days and did a press off the floor called the prone press and overhead presses He said almost nobody had the shoulder problems you see today from benching.
Lester Ware


==Scott==
Possibly meaning the shoulders hanging over the bench might be the problem?
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physcult

entsminger wrote:
lesterware wrote:
A cousin who was an old time strong man said they didn't have benches in the old days and did a press off the floor called the prone press and overhead presses He said almost nobody had the shoulder problems you see today from benching.
Lester Ware

==Scott==
Possibly meaning the shoulders hanging over the bench might be the problem?


maybe it restricted the amount of weight they lifted.
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HeavyHitter32

I recently bought the Powertec multi-station and have been performing both decline and incline chest presses with it. Extremely impressed with it and as good or better of a chest press I've ever recall using.

I used to train with a vertical iso Hammer Strength machine in the gym, but I didn't feel I could get as much of a stretch as I liked with that unit and I really couldn't get into a good groove with that machine.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

lesterware wrote:
A cousin who was an old time strong man said they didn't have benches in the old days and did a press off the floor called the prone press and overhead presses He said almost nobody had the shoulder problems you see today from benching.
Lester Ware


Yeah, Joe Defranco does that one with his athletes.

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related

And here's a video clip of a female doing 135 BB for reps in that manner.

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=rxrhZDOfce0

I have never done any form of bench press off the floor, but have been doing the DB fly exclusively on the floor for the past year. My clients NEVER do a DB fly on a bench. Works real well, and is lots safer.

Looks like I need to experiment with both BB and DB floor presses to see if the somewhat limited range of motion is still able to hit the chest the way I want it hit. I mean heck...you'd only be missing out on what...about the last 10th of the range of motion provided by doing them on a bench?

And I could certainly see how that would be safer for shoulders as well.

Next workout I will do several hardcore sets of prone bench press to see if it makes my entire chest sore the way standard bench press does.



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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

The dumbbell version of floor presses.

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=jK-jaXQYIsA
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dhitquinn

coachjeff wrote:
The dumbbell version of floor presses.

http://www.youtube.com/...aXQYIsA


The dumbell floor press is great coachjeff i would reccomend it, i personally do mine with palms faing forward just like you would in a regular press unlike in the video and i also do mine 1 arm at a time as its harder and it does not require as much weight.

If you have never done it before start off light as its difficult to get used to, it also protects the shoulders brilliantly whilst still hitting the front delts hard and it mullers the pecs you an really feel your chest burning especially in the high rep sets

heres an example workout

right arm 50kg dumbell 12 reps
rest 1 minute reduce weight to 35kgs do another 10-12 reps rest 2 minutes then do as many as possible with a 15 kg dumbell aiming for 50-70 reps

same with left arm

Dave
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Ciccio

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
I recently bought the Powertec multi-station and have been performing both decline and incline chest presses with it. Extremely impressed with it and as good or better of a chest press I've ever recall using.


Yep, that's (for me) the best chest exercise: powertec decline press. Even the strength curve (getting harder from bottom til top due to the angle of the lever) is a great match!
Starting from a dead stop at the bottom is another plus.

For triceps try the incline (you can try several angles, from almost flat to very steep -what fits you best) with a parallel grip (limit stretch on front delts, so elbows are not beyond body in bottom) and with ellbows tugged and tell me what you think.

Best,
Franco


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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
I recently bought the Powertec multi-station and have been performing both decline and incline chest presses with it. Extremely impressed with it and as good or better of a chest press I've ever recall using.

I used to train with a vertical iso Hammer Strength machine in the gym, but I didn't feel I could get as much of a stretch as I liked with that unit and I really couldn't get into a good groove with that machine.


I also have never gotten a good feel in my chest from most of the hammer bench press machines,(Uprights versions) regardless of how I adjusted the seat. Though I love their horizontal bench press.

I'm flirting with the idea of getting a stand-alone Powertec bench press, as I have heard good things about them.

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lesterware

I'm glad those floor presses are working for you. What a no brainer.
Lester Ware
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southbeach

coachjeff wrote:
The dumbbell version of floor presses.

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=jK-jaXQYIsA



Wow what a big range in that. that's a useless move imo
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lesterware

Southbeach, part of what gets us in trouble in the bench is excessive ROM. It all feels great until the bad day comes. I do mostly Hammer Presses now. And I would only do dumbell movements if I were stuck with free weights. I have dumbell pressed as much as 150 over head for super slow reps and incline angle but the barbell version just tears my shoulder to pieces. The other cuplrit was upright rows for destroying my shoulders.
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southbeach

lesterware wrote:
Southbeach, part of what gets us in trouble in the bench is excessive ROM. It all feels great until the bad day comes. I do mostly Hammer Presses now. And I would only do dumbell movements if I were stuck with free weights. I have dumbell pressed as much as 150 over head for super slow reps and incline angle but the barbell version just tears my shoulder to pieces. The other cuplrit was upright rows for destroying my shoulders.


I've never had ANY problems with my shoulders whatsoever and ALL my moves involve lots of stretch. But then again I don't bounce the weight off my connective tissue either. I am very very careful as I approach position of full stretch.

That floor press is just plain dumb, but that's just my opinion.

Upright Rows never bothered my shoulders but they did give me raging tennis elbow!

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dhitquinn

southbeach wrote:
lesterware wrote:
Southbeach, part of what gets us in trouble in the bench is excessive ROM. It all feels great until the bad day comes. I do mostly Hammer Presses now. And I would only do dumbell movements if I were stuck with free weights. I have dumbell pressed as much as 150 over head for super slow reps and incline angle but the barbell version just tears my shoulder to pieces. The other cuplrit was upright rows for destroying my shoulders.

I've never had ANY problems with my shoulders whatsoever and ALL my moves involve lots of stretch. But then again I don't bounce the weight off my connective tissue either. I am very very careful as I approach position of full stretch.

That floor press is just plain dumb, but that's just my opinion.

Upright Rows never bothered my shoulders but they did give me raging tennis elbow!



Its not just about slow rep cadence and using correct technique etc, the bench press is not suitable for certain people full stop not everyones shoulder structure can cope with the mechanics of the exercise. I knew a guy who benched using correct technique and great cadence etc but because his body structure didnt suit the bench press he just got big front delts and struggled to bench more than 70kgs this was because his shoulders and triceps were doing all the work and his chest was doing little if any of the work.

It is the same with squats its a great exercise for most but there are some people who should either not do it or reduce their range for safety reasons as they are not suited to it or have injury limitations. just because one guy can do something and get away with it doesnt mean that he is the rule for everyone to follow.

for example some folk can smoke their entire lives and not suffer a single health problem but that is of little consolation to the 10000 others who end up 6 feet under.

The floor press protects the rotator cuff and in particular the subscapularis which is heavily involved in bench pressing which if you damage will end your weight training goals. ive never suffered as much DOMS in the chest as i have using the floor press and for all intensive purposes has roughly the same range as regular presses, if you look at most peoples hands in the dumbell press the hands are roughly 3-4 inches above the chest in the bottom position.
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Bastion

Floor presses can be done in a power rack by setting up the safety pins so that you can't bring the bar lower than your arms being parallel to the floor. The same can be done on a smith, or any machine, or even with a barbell or dumbbells. That's really all floor presses are doing, is limiting your range, and protecting the shoulders.
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

coachjeff wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
I recently bought the Powertec multi-station and have been performing both decline and incline chest presses with it. Extremely impressed with it and as good or better of a chest press I've ever recall using.

I used to train with a vertical iso Hammer Strength machine in the gym, but I didn't feel I could get as much of a stretch as I liked with that unit and I really couldn't get into a good groove with that machine.

I also have never gotten a good feel in my chest from most of the hammer bench press machines,(Uprights versions) regardless of how I adjusted the seat. Though I love their horizontal bench press.

I'm flirting with the idea of getting a stand-alone Powertec bench press, as I have heard good things about them.



Coach if you can't find the Powertec locally, contact me. I ship them all over.

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cmg

Medx chest press is a great piece of equipment. User can adjust seat height, back depth and even adjust through weight stack. 2lbs increments and you have the best machine for chest, shoulders, triceps.

I have never paid too much attention to the form except ALWAYS try to get biggest full rom. Where should the elbows go to? Well past the body?

Regards,

Ron
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jn6047

I've seen lots of guys do this type of pressing. They call it barbell or dumbbell bench pressing. They normally do it from a bench, and their range of motion is identical. And, they always have an excuse why their range of motion isn't greater...

jn6047
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HSDAD

I did DB presses for a couple of years because I had no means of spotting for BB press. Also, it felt better on my shoulders. The problem is, once I got up over 100lb. per bell, it becomes difficult and dangerous both to get the bells into position and then to dump them after the set. Whatever shoulder protection they offer during the actual lift is more than negated by the danger to the shoulders in positioning them and dumping them.

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lesterware

I think some of you just don't get where I am coming from. Just because you can move through a certain range doesn't mean you should be loaded through that range with anywhere near what you can through the strong part of the range---Moment Arm Exercise, Stage Reps and even POF understand these things. When and if you do get hurt you will wish you had been a little more inquisitive. I can count all the things that were ok even favorites until that day-No more FR NO dips, Same with BHN Presses, Upright rows. I had to learn the hard way.
Lester Ware
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