MB Madaera
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Chris Madaera
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Keelan Parham
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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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KC ChE

Hey I am 6'2" 225lbs at 16% BF. I have no intention of getting up near 300 lbs like the IFBB big names. I am looking for some natural bodybuildering physiques to compare/aspire to. Most I see are shorter than 6' and I would like to know the sizes and weights of taller bb's.

Any links or names to google. Maybe some good natural bb sites with profiles or pictures.
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

i'm very near 6',a pro natural bodybuilder , my current off-season weight is 221#.

you will find some bios of other good (REAL) natural bodybuilders at overloadfitness.com under the Team Overload section.

from my experience many guys who claim "natural" are not really.

some really good, real natural competitive BB's on this site are Mike Lipowski, Mark Houghton, and Andrew Shortt, there may be a guy named Dan Thibault here too.
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Turpin

KC ChE wrote:
Hey I am 6'2" 225lbs at 16% BF. I have no intention of getting up near 300 lbs like the IFBB big names. I am looking for some natural bodybuildering physiques to compare/aspire to. Most I see are shorter than 6' and I would like to know the sizes and weights of taller bb's.

Any links or names to google. Maybe some good natural bb sites with profiles or pictures.


Hi KC ChE ,
Although I am not a bodybuilder ( but most definately believe in NATURAL resistance/strength training ) I feel regardless of height/weight ANY natural bodybuilder is/should be observed in terms of overall balance & not statistics.

I have always liked the physique of Vince Gironda who IMO had terrific aesthetic appeal & also promoted NATURAL `body sculpting`. There is a very good web site dedicated to his work ;
http://www.ironguru.com/

Best wishes , T.


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Crotalus

I always liked Gironda's physique too and wonder why he never did better in competition ... he really had the great 'V' taper , tiny waist and proportions you were looking for back then.

I don't know what it is but the natural physiques ( if they really were natural ) looked a lot better to me than the natural physiques of today.

Whenever I see a 'real' natural bodybuilder in contest condition today, many looked that they're starved. I know they have to get that lean to place in the contests but at that low BF their muscles looked deflated ... or maybe I just haven't seen enough of them.

But 'back in the day' guys like Gironda , Sipes, etc. didn't look that way to me ... they had the definition and full muscles . But maybe they weren't 100% 'natural', who knows ....
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Lioncourt

Crotalus wrote:
I always liked Gironda's physique too and wonder why he never did better in competition ... he really had the great 'V' taper , tiny waist and proportions you were looking for back then.


Vince's problem was that he was in fact too defined during the years that he competed. Reeves, Grimek, and Ross were lean (around 8%), but Vince was the first BBer to ever really be ripped.
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southbeach

personally don't like a wispy waist looks "weak".. well developed thick obliques give the illusion of power and strength.
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Ciccio

Lioncourt wrote:
Crotalus wrote:
I always liked Gironda's physique too and wonder why he never did better in competition ... he really had the great 'V' taper , tiny waist and proportions you were looking for back then.


Vince's problem was that he was in fact too defined during the years that he competed. Reeves, Grimek, and Ross were lean (around 8%), but Vince was the first BBer to ever really be ripped.


I hear that too but I think it's rather that his arms are too small. Nobody can raise to the very top of bb with small(significantly smaller then the top competitors) arms. Not then and not today.
Check attached pic.

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Turpin

Ciccio wrote:
Lioncourt wrote:
Crotalus wrote:
I always liked Gironda's physique too and wonder why he never did better in competition ... he really had the great 'V' taper , tiny waist and proportions you were looking for back then.


Vince's problem was that he was in fact too defined during the years that he competed. Reeves, Grimek, and Ross were lean (around 8%), but Vince was the first BBer to ever really be ripped.

I hear that too but I think it's rather that his arms are too small. Nobody can raise to the very top of bb with small(significantly smaller then the top competitors) arms. Not then and not today.
Check attached pic.



Im sure the 2 pictured with Vince was Freddy Ortiz and Chick Sipes both of whom admitted steroid use ( Gironda apparently abhored them )
Heres a pic of Gironda a little older again ( above ) , I think he was in his 50`s here and looks ALL natural to me.

T.

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Crotalus

I know Gironda hated steroid use and personally didn't use them but I think he looked the other way with guys he trained for major contests.

I know he trained Mohammed Makaway for the Olympia ( ? year .... the year Haney won the first time with Beckles and Gaspari close behind ) and doubt he was able to stand with those guys on just raw eggs and desiccated liver tablets.

Makaway was another guy who didn't get the recognition he deserved IMO. I guess he was just too small in stature but I think he had a great physique and an excellent poser.
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southbeach

wasn't Vince big on isolation and he didn't like squats?

if i recall he also had an exercise he called the perfect curl. his form was just the opposite of what 99.9% do..he'd start bent backward at the waist in lumbar extension then flex forward as he curled ended up meeting the bar bent FORWARD at waist.

it must of been his attempt to place the resistance more favorably on the biceps through a FULLER range.
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Turpin

Crotalus wrote:
I know Gironda hated steroid use and personally didn't use them but I think he looked the other way with guys he trained for major contests.

I know he trained Mohammed Makaway for the Olympia ( ? year .... the year Haney won the first time with Beckles and Gaspari close behind ) and doubt he was able to stand with those guys on just raw eggs and desiccated liver tablets.

Makaway was another guy who didn't get the recognition he deserved IMO. I guess he was just too small in stature but I think he had a great physique and an excellent poser.



I agree , I saw Makkaway in 85 when he visited the UK and Ive never seen arms so big.
I did try Girondas style of training and diet for some time and enjoyed the workouts however any degree of intensity ( that I was used to ) quickly led to overtraining and regression due to the advocated frequency and volume. Some of his writings and exercises themselves though were fantastic.

T.

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physcult

Crotalus wrote:
I know Gironda hated steroid use and personally didn't use them but I think he looked the other way with guys he trained for major contests.

I know he trained Mohammed Makaway for the Olympia

Now Makkawy is one of those bodybuilders I give the benefit of doubt to over drug use - theres just a chance he is natural. I wouldnt bet money on it, but its possible.
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Turpin

southbeach wrote:
wasn't Vince big on isolation and he didn't like squats?

if i recall he also had an exercise he called the perfect curl. his form was just the opposite of what 99.9% do..he'd start bent backward at the waist in lumbar extension then flex forward as he curled ended up meeting the bar bent FORWARD at waist.

it must of been his attempt to place the resistance more favorably on the biceps through a FULLER range.


YES your right S/B , his exercise format was very much to isolate the targeted muscle groups , and his routines ( some whole body 1 exercise per bodypart 4-8 sets per exercise ) were very much isolation based.
I did get into very good condition thru such , but lost a lot of size ( especially legs ) without compound movements.
Attached pic is when I employed some stuff from his routines and his dietary advice.

Best wishes T.


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Crotalus

southbeach wrote:

wasn't Vince big on isolation and he didn't like squats?


He didn't like back squats claiming they built the glutes but liked front squats and hack squat. He advocated both isolation and compound.

He did that 'perfect curl' you mention along with the 'Drag curl'. He claimed regular barbell curl worked the front delts too much. The effect of that perfect curl can also be done simply by letting you wrists/hands fall forward at the top of the curl.

I remember he wasn't in favor of developing the traps, saying they took away from the width illusion you were after. Personally I think thick traps give a powerful look, even if that did affect the appearance of width a little.
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southbeach

Crotalus wrote:
southbeach wrote:

wasn't Vince big on isolation and he didn't like squats?


He didn't like back squats claiming they built the glutes but liked front squats and hack squat. He advocated both isolation and compound.

He did that 'perfect curl' you mention along with the 'Drag curl'. He claimed regular barbell curl worked the front delts too much. The effect of that perfect curl can also be done simply by letting you wrists/hands fall forward at the top of the curl.

I remember he wasn't in favor of developing the traps, saying they took away from the width illusion you were after. Personally I think thick traps give a powerful look, even if that did affect the appearance of width a little.


huh interesting..

i agree traps are REQUIRED to give that look of power as well a scrawny neck and too thin a waist can ruin it.
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Lioncourt

southbeach wrote:
i agree traps are REQUIRED to give that look of power as well a scrawny neck and too thin a waist can ruin it.


Steve Reeves is another one that did not agree with developing the traps. He believed that it took away from the appearance of shoulder width, which I tend to agreed with him on. As training advice goes, I think Reeves got it right a lot more than any other bodybuilder that has ever tried to give out advice.
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fbcoach

southbeach wrote:
wasn't Vince big on isolation and he didn't like squats?

if i recall he also had an exercise he called the perfect curl. his form was just the opposite of what 99.9% do..he'd start bent backward at the waist in lumbar extension then flex forward as he curled ended up meeting the bar bent FORWARD at waist.

it must of been his attempt to place the resistance more favorably on the biceps through a FULLER range.


You are right. He favored isolation exercises. He also favored giant sets. He called it 4 sides to building muscle. He used a very low-carb diet. He used 2 kinds of curls....drag curls and spider curls. Larry Scott trained in his gym, and he used preacher curls with the pad at a 90 degree angle.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Guys, guys - you need look no further than Hanz & Franz for natural BB inspiration.

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=HHZhw94C5vQ

Or perhaps Vera DeMilo?

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=1dkB6YNLF4s
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SteveHIT

southbeach wrote:
traps are REQUIRED to give that look of power as well a scrawny neck and too thin a waist can ruin it.


I never thought Id say this . . .

But I agree Southbeach!
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southbeach

stevehit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
traps are REQUIRED to give that look of power as well a scrawny neck and too thin a waist can ruin it.

I never thought Id say this . . .

But I agree Southbeach!


your starting to wise up steve!

next i'll have you eating broccoli sprouts and drinking wheat grass shakes ;}

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SteveHIT

southbeach wrote:
your starting to wise up steve!

next i'll have you eating broccoli sprouts and drinking wheat grass shakes ;}

LOL! and we all know the big compound movements are the way to build that powerful look!
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physcult

stevehit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
traps are REQUIRED to give that look of power as well a scrawny neck and too thin a waist can ruin it.

I never thought Id say this . . .

But I agree Southbeach!


I can soon put a stop to that - and the best ways to develop traps are?
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physcult

stevehit wrote:

LOL! and we all know the big compound movements are the way to build that powerful look!


u beat me to it!
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southbeach

stevehit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
your starting to wise up steve!

next i'll have you eating broccoli sprouts and drinking wheat grass shakes ;}

LOL! and we all know the big compound movements are the way to build that powerful look!


Not according to Vince!

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physcult

southbeach wrote:
stevehit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
your starting to wise up steve!

next i'll have you eating broccoli sprouts and drinking wheat grass shakes ;}

LOL! and we all know the big compound movements are the way to build that powerful look!

Not according to Vince!



Vince doesnt look powerful in his leopard print thongs
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