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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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The Best Cadence?
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floweking

Hello everybody!

After reading "Bigger muscles in 40 Days" I was convinced the best way to perform an exercises is a 10-second count on the lifting and a 5-second count on the lowering. I always used to exersice like this till now.
But in "The New HIT" it says a cadence of 3/3 should be performed. I give the "6-Month HIT Course" a try now, where 10/5 or 10/10 is not mentioned until Phase III. So why should I perform the exercises in Phase I and II with a less effective technique like described in the book?

FK
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serf

New Zealand

In my experience the cadence doesn't matter that much.

I tried 10-10 (superslow) for a few months but other than being really hard and painful as hell, my results weren't that great. I personally find about 3-3 gives me great results (slow enough to prevent cheating). In fact, I don't know about others but as long as I'm going slow, I find I get really good results regardless of the cadence in this range or thereabouts: 2 up 4 down (old-style Darden HIT), 10-10 superslow, 3-3.

Dr Darden himself has changed the recommended cadence a few times, which shows that as long as your muscles (and not momentum) are taking the weight, you'll grow -- as long as you push yourself. Reps are a related matter and I find the old when you reach 12, 'move up the weight in the next session' works.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
I've been experimenting with fast reps and slow reps lately. While these results are not conclusive I do have to say that when using fast reps , maybe 2 up and 2 down, I did gain strength and size faster than ever before.

The down side of that though is that I'm pushing the possibility of injury much more with fast reps than slow reps.I am making some progress with the slow reps at the moment but not quite as much as with the fast reps. I think the down size of the fast reps at least for me at my older age of 57 is that they are much easier to get injured from.

Fast reps seem to work the muscle very intensely. The slow reps can work the muscles very intensely as well if you have the concentration to do it right and they are a form of exercise that can probably be continued on into older age much more safely than the fast reps.

I'm beginning to think that if you are young and invulnerable so to speak, then fast reps are a good way to go if the goal is the fasted possible gains in strength and size but for the long haul, slow reps may allow you to continue to train much longer and consistently with out injury. They both work though. Which one will I eventually stick with, who knows? Maybe a mix of both?
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anab0lic

Exploding on the positive and controlling the negative for 4-8 seconds on every rep seems to yeild the best results for me.

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Turpin

I wouldnt worry too much about cadence , provided you are using good form and controlled repetitions.

I have tried everything from SS to ballistic reps and everything inbetween. The only thing that matters is progressively heavier resistance with whatever cadence you are using and keep it consistent for transparency of progress.

My reps are around 3 sec concentric 4 sec eccentric ( although I dont count ) and on exercises where I can , I attempt a 2 sec hold in the contracted position.
Too much emphasis on cadence will ( IMO ) retard your progress by being too restrictive on resistance used.

T.
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iflyboats

I've gained about 8 lbs since December doing SS exclusively. I have serious joint problems and find the slow speeds more tolerable. I would try faster, heavier training if I was healthy.
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smanjh

Turpin wrote:
I wouldnt worry too much about cadence , provided you are using good form and controlled repetitions.

I have tried everything from SS to ballistic reps and everything inbetween. The only thing that matters is progressively heavier resistance with whatever cadence you are using and keep it consistent for transparency of progress.

My reps are around 3 sec concentric 4 sec eccentric ( although I dont count ) and on exercises where I can , I attempt a 2 sec hold in the contracted position.
Too much emphasis on cadence will ( IMO ) retard your progress by being too restrictive on resistance used.

T.


Agreed. Fast enough to actually let the muscle perform its function of generating force, yet slow enough to keep the momentum at bay.
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

iflyboats wrote:
I've gained about 8 lbs since December doing SS exclusively. I have serious joint problems and find the slow speeds more tolerable. I would try faster, heavier training if I was healthy.



: ) CONGRATS!

I do want to reiterate, it's going really slow cuz its really fricken heavy
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smanjh

Joshua Trentine wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
I've gained about 8 lbs since December doing SS exclusively. I have serious joint problems and find the slow speeds more tolerable. I would try faster, heavier training if I was healthy.



: ) CONGRATS!

I do want to reiterate, it's going really slow cuz its really fricken heavy


Then you would only get one rep, right?

I did that with my regular 6-8 rep working weight and could only get like 1 and a half reps doing exactly 10/10.

However what do now could be considered SS vs the guys swinging weight.
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

smanjh wrote:
Joshua Trentine wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
I've gained about 8 lbs since December doing SS exclusively. I have serious joint problems and find the slow speeds more tolerable. I would try faster, heavier training if I was healthy.



: ) CONGRATS!

I do want to reiterate, it's going really slow cuz its really fricken heavy

Then you would only get one rep, right?

I did that with my regular 6-8 rep working weight and could only get like 1 and a half reps doing exactly 10/10.

However what do now could be considered SS vs the guys swinging weight.



my most common guide is 4 reps.
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southbeach

one observation for what it's worth..those that have posted vids advocating the fastest cadence do PARTIAL ROM's on all their exercises. they do not work the exercise thru full range of the joint. i believe this is to minimize momentum that would certainly be developed from the additional time thru the fuller range. just an observation.

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douglis

In my opinion a slower cadence(3/3 is a good choice) is better for size probably because it produces better hormonal response as many studies find.

For strength I prefer a faster cadence because you learn better to take advantage of the stretch-shortening cycle and the inertial effect(with two words you learn to perform the exercise better).
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smanjh

douglis wrote:
In my opinion a slower cadence(3/3 is a good choice) is better for size probably because it produces better hormonal response as many studies find.

For strength I prefer a faster cadence because you learn better to take advantage of the stretch-shortening cycle and the inertial effect(with two words you learn to perform the exercise better).


Either IRONMAN or Muscular development cited something from one of the journals about 1/3 being the best in direct comparison this month.

For what it is worth.
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HeavyHitter32

douglis wrote:
In my opinion a slower cadence(3/3 is a good choice) is better for size probably because it produces better hormonal response as many studies find.


Can you post any links of that - never saw that before.

I will say when I do 3/3 or thereabouts, I feel like I am working the muscle better as compared to doing explosive, fast movements such as 1/1.
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douglis

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
douglis wrote:
In my opinion a slower cadence(3/3 is a good choice) is better for size probably because it produces better hormonal response as many studies find.


Can you post any links of that - never saw that before.

I will say when I do 3/3 or thereabouts, I feel like I am working the muscle better as compared to doing explosive, fast movements such as 1/1.


Here's a study that I found at the moment:
"After the exercise, LS caused significantly greater norepinephrine and free testosterone responses (delta value) than in the HN and LN (P < 0.05)"
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/...1/58_7/_article

A few months ago a few members here posted 2 or 3 similar studies.

And here's another one(I couldn't find right now the whole study) that finds greater size gains with 3/3:

"A 6-week study at the University of Sydney (Lidcombe, New South Wales) suggests that although fast reps (1 second or less on the positive and negative part of the rep) produce the greatest gains in muscle strength, slow reps (3 seconds on the positive and negative part of the rep) produce the greatest gains in muscle size."
http://findarticles.com/...7/ai_n39193807/
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HeavyHitter32

Thanks, douglis.
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dhitquinn

I usually take 1 day off work and do 12hrs on the positive and 12 hours on the negative

beat that southbeach!
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

douglis wrote:
In my opinion a slower cadence(3/3 is a good choice) is better for size probably because it produces better hormonal response as many studies find.

For strength I prefer a faster cadence because you learn better to take advantage of the stretch-shortening cycle and the inertial effect(with two words you learn to perform the exercise better).



faster allows for more skill as opposed to "strength" in the context discussed above.
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howard1976

How come with faster reps you failure QUICKER?

With fast reps i can make a big inroad into strength quickly,with super slow it takes ages to make a deep inroad.

Dr Mc guff takes roughly 2minutes to make a deep inroad in his sets on you tube. If he did those reps fast he could make the same inroad in half that time!!

Funny thing is in his book he says dont go over 90 seconds as the slow twitch fibres come back into play. But he takes 2 minutes a set!!

The only reason i can see in doing super slow is if you have a injury or really scared you might get a injury from faster reps.

Oh, and i am not talking crazy fast reps.
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

how do you measure inroad?
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

if fast reps "inroad" faster, maaybe you should do them crazy fast but it does not work that way.

faster may be appropriate if you have limitations in your gear ie:friction, dated resistance curves. Remove these things, you remove friction based or cam based respites you get deeper inroad.
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Drew Baye

Florida, USA

The best cadence is one that allows you to:

1. maintain proper body positioning and alignment
2. follow the proper path of movement
3. reverse direction smoothly without bouncing or jerking the weight
4. focus on intensely contracting the target muscles

This can be different things for different people and different exercises. Focus on control and speed will take care of itself.
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southbeach

Drew Baye wrote:
The best cadence is one that allows you to:

1. maintain proper body positioning and alignment
2. follow the proper path of movement
3. reverse direction smoothly without bouncing or jerking the weight
4. focus on intensely contracting the target muscles

This can be different things for different people and different exercises. Focus on control and speed will take care of itself.


right, and this sums to ISOLATION.

improper isolation leads to contamination of the set from ancillary muscle groups. involve other muscles groups if your looking for SKILL.

but looking for optimal LOCAL muscle adaptation then constraint of target joint and isolation of muscle is a requirement.

good post drew!
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