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Mike Mentzer Mental State
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Tony Williams

Many think Mentzer was mentally ill.

Darden's book claims so, although it presents only hearsay evidence. Others have said the same on the Internet, magazines, and other sources.

None of the rumors were spread while he was alive obviously because of the threat of libel.

What do you think of publications which repeat such stories when the person is dead and unable to defend himself?

Just think about it.

Tony
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smanjh

I think it is bullshit honestly. What was presented in TNHIT was bullshit-professional jealousy.

Dorian Yates=Mentzer in the fitness industry. Thus, Mentzer is the front runner of HIT, and Jones/Darden are relics of the 70's.

Not trying to be an asshole or anything, but seriously, without Mike, HIT would be history in all honesty, IMO of course.

Mike is the only reason I gave HIT a chance. Jones is a collection of stories and over exaggerations. Mentzer had an unmatched way of communicating with people through his writings.

RIP Mike, and screw the doubters.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Tony Williams wrote:
What do you think of people who tell such stories when the person is dead and unable to defend himself?


Not much.

If I were him, I don't know that I could ever think about the farce that was the 80 Mr. O, w/o getting really pissed. I'm not him, and it still pisses me off. I do wish he'd kept competing after that.

Mike may have had his problems, but I prefer to focus on his contributions.

I disagree with some of his most extreme notions on Consolidation and continuously reducing frequency, but I always appreciated (and still do) his ability to paint a vivid picture on HIT/HD training.

Many of us found our way to HIT through him, and for that I'm thankful. That's what I'd like to remember most about him.

Scott
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---

Good point. I think thats unfair and not the style of gentlemen.
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perrymk

Tony Williams wrote:
What do you think of people who tell such stories when the person is dead and unable to defend himself?

People are people and will talk about people, dead or alive. This is not necessarily good or bad. There is an industry built around this concept. I suspect the reason people talk publicly about Mike Mentzer is that Mike Mentzer was a public figure. If he didn't want all the attention that goes with being a public figure, good and bad, he would have found a less public career.
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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA


The behavior of MIKE MENTZER was documented by many; while it might be of low-character to gossip about people with false accusation and/or speculation, reporting DESTRUCTIVENESS of those with mental-illness, or criminal inclination, serves the public by preventing them from duping another sucker into their tangled web.

Case in point, Brian Johnston (out of admiration of Mentzer) wanted to work with Mike Mentzer, which Johnston did by publishing a magazine that utilized HEAVY DUTY as a theme; however, Mike Mentzer became intolerable to Brian Johnston with his behavior, which I would guess that Johnston would have decided NOT to work with Mentzer, if he had heard similar experiences beforehand.

As for Darden writing about Mentzer after death, I also agree that, because it serves TRUTH for the reason how many times have kids been duped into thinking character-building was common in sports, or acting? I would rather people know what they are getting into beforehand. At the same time, I admire people like Kim Woods that also champions for how things ought to be, namely his denouncement of drugs in sports that might have something to do with athletes training too much, then using drugs to overcome their eroding of their ability to recover from their workouts.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Mentzer suffered and self medicated period.

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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA


**** MISSED MENTION ****

Another example of the misbehavior of Mike Mentzer.

"According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX magazine, stories began to surface of Mentzer exhibiting some very erratic behavior. Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, BEING ARRESTED BY THE POLICE NUMEROUS TIMES and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another."

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southbeach

i don't know much about Mike but did he always speak like that or did he adopt Arthur's manner and tone of speaking? He sounds a lot like Arthur in the few vids i've seen
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

BennyAnthonyOfKC wrote:

**** MISSED MENTION ****

Another example of the misbehavior of Mike Mentzer.

"According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX magazine, stories began to surface of Mentzer exhibiting some very erratic behavior. Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, BEING ARRESTED BY THE POLICE NUMEROUS TIMES and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another."


More anecdotal BS. Nice job, Benny!

I'd believe the editors of the National Enquirer before I'd believe those cocksuckers at Flex.
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Bullen-Whatling

simon-hecubus wrote:


More anecdotal BS. Nice job, Benny!

I'd believe the editors of the National Enquirer before I'd believe those cocksuckers at Flex.


I agree, if he stands against supplements and the status quo way of training, why wouldn't they want to rip him apart?

Rob
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AI1963

"Mike is the only reason I gave HIT a chance. Jones is a collection of stories and over exaggerations. Mentzer had an unmatched way of communicating with people through his writings.

RIP Mike, and screw the doubters."

RIP indeed. Mike was a great guy. He also was a person who had a bout of mental/emotional unrest. Neither of those aspects of Mike was mutually exclusive of the other. I agree that many have taken cheap shots at Mike; others have merely told the truth.

As far as Jones being "a collection of stories and over (sic) exaggerations", I don't know if that is quite true in the way that comment is seemingly meant. There does seem to be a small percentage who idolize Jones; regardless, he was a larger-than-life character who led an atypical existence. Stories about such individuals abound because of the very nature of their lives and exploits. No exaggeration is necessary to make the story of Jones' life interesting.

I can't say that there have been no tall tales told about Jones but if you believe all or most of the lore to be exaggerated, read "The Crocodile Trader". This book, written by Rory Macaulay, was first published in 1960, predating Nautilus by a decade. Jones is a central figure in this account of trapping dangerous animals in the wilds of Africa. Jones is described by Macauley using the same "exaggerated" descriptors others would later use: fearless, relentless, tireless, impatient, brilliant, willful, blunt, outrageous, maddening and generous. It would seem that Jones really WAS that guy: adventurer, inventor and all-around bad ass.

Mentzer, by the way, held Jones in the highest regard even if the feeling was not always mutual.

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Turpin


To me , Mentzer is/was HIT !

I never knew the man personally , but his work has been a huge part of my life ( as strength training has always been )
I knew about Mentzer before I knew/realised about A.Jones et al`.
His work and subsequent findings beyond that which Jones originally advocated were ( to me ) so simple yet effective , even what folk would term his extremes of constant reduction in volume/frequency ie; consolidation training , worked ! ( still does for me !)

T.
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HeavyHitter32

BennyAnthonyOfKC wrote:
Case in point, Brian Johnston (out of admiration of Mentzer) wanted to work with Mike Mentzer, which Johnston did by publishing a magazine that utilized HEAVY DUTY as a theme; however, Mike Mentzer became intolerable to Brian Johnston with his behavior, which I would guess that Johnston would have decided NOT to work with Mentzer, if he had heard similar experiences beforehand.


Given some of Johnston's own behavior on a number of forums including this one, perhaps Mike didn't want to work with him anymore either?
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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA


***** simon-hecubus *****

No matter what FLEX might recommend in terms of bodybuilding, REPORTING THAT SOMEONE HAS BEEN ARRESTED is the simplest way to lose a lawsuit. However, at what point are people BLIND APOLOGISTS on behalf of Mentzer?


***** swede360 *****

In response to, "I agree, if he stands against supplements and the status quo way of training, why wouldn't they want to rip him apart?"

I GAVE ONE NON-HIT EXAMPLE FROM FLEX, since the start of this posting was about Darden commenting on the behavior of Mentzer within Darden's own book.


***** HeavyHitter32 *****

The words of Brian Johnston on discussion-boards sometimes sound harsher than they are, or when they are INTENDED to be harsh is because he was attacked repeatedly, but if you have talked to him over the telephone, as I have, over the course of months, then you would find he is a very rational, yet PERSONABLE, character with no fly-off-the-handle incidents. The same character that I knew Johnston on the phone was also the same on-air, as he appeared on my radio-show numerous times; we even debated ATHEISM VERSUS THEISM with him being an atheist, and myself being religious, albeit philosophical.


***** Tony Williams *****

Under your posting, AJs CONFLICT OF INTEREST, you question Jones being "psychotic" that you later deleted anything in that proximity of words, but you then start this string-of-postings criticizing Ellington Darden (on his own website) for simply reporting the truth about Mike Mentzer? What is he suppose to do, paint a rosey picture of LEAVE IT TO BEAVER for bodybuilding, even if it does NOT exist?

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smanjh

southbeach wrote:
i don't know much about Mike but did he always speak like that or did he adopt Arthur's manner and tone of speaking? He sounds a lot like Arthur in the few vids i've seen


http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=9KavhUif7a4

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related

It would seem a little so here, but not as obvious as in the last video released with Reinhardt in it.

Everyone should reread 'Mentoring the Mentzers' and watch the Coe series to draw your own conclusions on that.
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Tony Williams

BennyAnthonyOfKC wrote:

**** MISSED MENTION ****

Another example of the misbehavior of Mike Mentzer.

"According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX magazine, stories began to surface of Mentzer exhibiting some very erratic behavior. Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, BEING ARRESTED BY THE POLICE NUMEROUS TIMES and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another."



With all due respect Benny, when you state "According to ... stories began to surface ..." and all the rest is hearsay.
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Tony Williams

southbeach wrote:
i don't know much about Mike but did he always speak like that or did he adopt Arthur's manner and tone of speaking? He sounds a lot like Arthur in the few vids i've seen


I don't know.

They both talked in a gruff manner.

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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA


***** Tony Williams *****


Tony, you do not read very well, as I did NOT state that and it goes on to say, MENTZER WAS ARRESTED. That is not a HEARSAY statement and a publication would not say someone was arrested, unless it was fact, because that is the easiest way to lose a lawsuit. Period. Regardless, I have never been arrested for anything, and MOST PEOPLE HAVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED, and it is not like Mentzer was arrested during the 1960s standing for civil-rights, but he was arrested for not being able to control himself.
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Tony Williams

BennyAnthonyOfKC wrote:

***** simon-hecubus *****

No matter what FLEX might recommend in terms of bodybuilding, REPORTING THAT SOMEONE HAS BEEN ARRESTED is the simplest way to lose a lawsuit. However, at what point are people BLIND APOLOGISTS on behalf of Mentzer?


***** swede360 *****

In response to, "I agree, if he stands against supplements and the status quo way of training, why wouldn't they want to rip him apart?"

I GAVE ONE NON-HIT EXAMPLE FROM FLEX, since the start of this posting was about Darden commenting on the behavior of Mentzer within Darden's own book.


***** HeavyHitter32 *****

The words of Brian Johnston on discussion-boards sometimes sound harsher than they are, or when they are INTENDED to be harsh is because he was attacked repeatedly, but if you have talked to him over the telephone, as I have, over the course of months, then you would find he is a very rational, yet PERSONABLE, character with no fly-off-the-handle incidents. The same character that I knew Johnston on the phone was also the same on-air, as he appeared on my radio-show numerous times; we even debated ATHEISM VERSUS THEISM with him being an atheist, and myself being religious, albeit philosophical.


***** Tony Williams *****

Under your posting, AJs CONFLICT OF INTEREST, you question Jones being "psychotic" that you later deleted anything in that proximity of words, but you then start this string-of-postings criticizing Ellington Darden (on his own website) for simply reporting the truth about Mike Mentzer? What is he suppose to do, paint a rosey picture of LEAVE IT TO BEAVER for bodybuilding, even if it does NOT exist?



After rereading my post, I thought the comment about Jones was totally unrelated to his conflict of interest regarding touting Nautilus while conducting research on his own machines.

Have you seen an arrest record of Mike Mentzer? Reproduce it.

Tony
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Tony Williams

BennyAnthonyOfKC wrote:

***** Tony Williams *****


Tony, you do not read very well, as I did NOT state that and it goes on to say, MENTZER WAS ARRESTED. That is not a HEARSAY statement and a publication would not say someone was arrested, unless it was fact, because that is the easiest way to lose a lawsuit. Period. Regardless, I have never been arrested for anything, and MOST PEOPLE HAVE NEVER BEEN ARRESTED, and it is not like Mentzer was arrested during the 1960s standing for civil-rights, but he was arrested for not being able to control himself.


Where was Mike Mentzer arrested?

On what charges?

Was he convicted of any charge?

An arrest is not proof of guilt ... only a conviction.

You seem to confuse the two.

Again, reproduce the arrest records, or more importantly, his convictions, which are public record ... if you can Benny.

If you cannot produce the particulars about any arrests or convictions, then you are spreading rumors no matter how much you may personally believe them.

Many publications print things that are not true.

Do you believe everything you read Benny?

Do you believe everything in "Flex", a magazine that attempts to hide advertising as articles?

Tony
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hdlifter

Having met and known Mike, I can say whole-heartedly he was a man of integrity, always a pleasure to interact with. All the stories, whether true or false, doesn't take way what he did for HIT and changing the dogma that surrounds bodybuilding. (which his mentor, Arthur started and our host keeps alive)

We've all seen the farce the '80 Mr. O was (I've spoken to people who were there, being my home Australia, who saw champs smashing their trophies in the car park). The following year wasn't any better with a one-legged, bitch-titted Franco Columbo winning against Tom Platz. ROFL I guess when you're in Uncle Joe's stable your god like status is protected regardless.

Anywhoo...my close and personal friend, Joanne Sharkey, knew Mike better than any of us here. Our common love for Mike outweighs any of the stories surrounding the man. Love or hate Mike, he will remain a man of integrity who wasn't afraid to stand up and challenge the powers that be.

The smoke and mirrors that shrouded bodybuilding, and remains to an extent, was in need of a shake-up. Duping the young and gullible through ghost-written articles seeped in useless supplements is more of a concern than any issue Mike may have had.

How many have wasted the best years of their lives? Burnt out or got injured? That is a despicable act to line someones pocket. Uncle Joe should be the one under debate!
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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA



Tony, so last words from me on this... it was all a conspiracy from Ellington Darden, Arthur Jones, Brian Johnston, ane editor from FLEX and various police-departments TO DISCREDIT MIKE MENTZER, and I am simply falling into their hands being a pawn in their diabolical game. You win!
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Tony Williams

AShortt wrote:
Mentzer suffered and self medicated period.



You know that from personal observation?

Or from reading accounts of his life?

Tony

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Tony Williams

perrymk wrote:
Tony Williams wrote:
What do you think of people who tell such stories when the person is dead and unable to defend himself?

People are people and will talk about people, dead or alive. This is not necessarily good or bad. There is an industry built around this concept. I suspect the reason people talk publicly about Mike Mentzer is that Mike Mentzer was a public figure. If he didn't want all the attention that goes with being a public figure, good and bad, he would have found a less public career.


In a court of law, Mentzer's lawyer might argue whether he was a public figure.

A cult figure perhaps.

If you interviewed 100 people on the street at the peak of his popularity, I doubt that more than three or four would know who he was and what he was famous for.

And, of course, when a public figure, like a politician or movie star, sues a publication or someone for libel, that person must prove malice aforethought -- a much higher standard for libel than those who are not in the public eye.

That is one reason why tabloids continue to exist.

Tony
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