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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Powerlifters Should Isolate
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southbeach

The study showed that the majority of
the significant differences were for
muscle mass and muscular girths per
unit height and the greater muscle mass
contributed to the greater strength
levels in stronger lifters.


Here's the study..
J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Nov;23(8):2256-65.
Can absolute and proportional anthropometric characteristics distinguish stronger and weaker powerlifters?

Keogh JW, Hume PA, Pearson SN, Mellow PJ.

Institute of Sport and Recreation Research New Zealand, School of Sport and Recreation, AUT University, Auckland, New Zealand. justin.keogh@aut.ac.nz
Abstract

This study sought to compare the anthropometric profiles of 17 weaker and 17 stronger Australasian and Pacific powerlifters who had competed in a regional-, national-, or international-level powerlifting competition in New Zealand. Stronger lifters were defined as those having a Wilks score greater than 410, whereas those in the weaker group had a Wilks score less than 370. Each powerlifter was assessed for 37 anthropometric dimensions by International Society for the Advancement of Kinanthropometry (ISAK) level II and III accredited anthropometrists. Because all powerlifters were highly mesomorphic and possessed large girths and bone breadths, both in absolute terms and when expressed as Phantom-Z scores compared through the Phantom, relatively few significant anthropometric differences were observed. However, stronger lifters had significantly greater muscle mass and larger muscular girths in absolute terms as well as greater Brugsch Index (chest girth/height) and "Phantom"-normalized muscle mass, upper arm, chest, and forearm girths. In terms of the segment lengths and bone breadths, the only significant difference was that stronger lifters had a significantly shorter lower leg than weaker lifters. Because the majority of the significant differences were for muscle mass and muscular girths, it would appear likely that these differences contributed to the stronger lifters' superior performance. Powerlifters may therefore need to devote some of their training to the development of greater levels of muscular hypertrophy if they wish to continue to improve their performance. To better understand the anthropometric determinants of muscular strength, future research should recruit larger samples (particularly of elite lifters) and follow these subjects prospectively.


Strength is highly correlated with
muscle mass. You cannot magically gain
strength without putting on muscle or
Vice versa.

If your strength is improving, you are definitely gaining muscle too.

The study proves once and for all that the "big 3" ALONE will not get you as strong as you could be.

What's best way to gain muscle size of lagging parts..direct work thru isolation of the lagging part.
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MDieguez

Southbeach
More importantly....YOU should try the powerlifts.
Mike
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MDieguez

Southbeach
More importantly..... YOU should perform the powerlifts
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HDROB

Britain's Ron Collins won the World Powerlifting Championships, 1972-77 and 1979, at middle and light-heavyweight.

He only trained using the three lifts with a few compounds assistant exercises like rows and shoulder presses. NO iso's.

Kirkley et al. The Manual of Weight Training. Century Hutchinson: London, 1986.
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Yes

I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.
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southbeach

Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.


you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you

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Yes

southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you


No, I mean that before venturing your unsolicited opinions you should at least have something to show for it in the form of real world results.

I suggest you ask for advice from sucessful powerlifters instead of having opinions on their training. That way you can learn from people who have actually done it.
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southbeach

Yes wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you


No, I mean that before venturing your unsolicited opinions you should at least have something to show for it in the form of real world results.

I suggest you ask for advice from sucessful powerlifters instead of having opinions on their training. That way you can learn from people who have actually done it.


i do. who else right off the street could shoulder 315 for breathing squats?

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crazeeJZ

southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you


No, I mean that before venturing your unsolicited opinions you should at least have something to show for it in the form of real world results.

I suggest you ask for advice from sucessful powerlifters instead of having opinions on their training. That way you can learn from people who have actually done it.

i do. who else right off the street could shoulder 315 for breathing squats?



But eventually suggesting one not lockout with heavier on the squat is a good way to get injured because of the greater chance of breakdown in form.
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southbeach

crazeeJZ wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you


No, I mean that before venturing your unsolicited opinions you should at least have something to show for it in the form of real world results.

I suggest you ask for advice from sucessful powerlifters instead of having opinions on their training. That way you can learn from people who have actually done it.

i do. who else right off the street could shoulder 315 for breathing squats?



But eventually suggesting one not lockout with heavier on the squat is a good way to get injured because of the greater chance of breakdown in form.


i agree that's why i say the squat sucks as an exercise.
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Yes

southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

you mean to say that no one has a right to an opinion that is not as huge and strong as you


No, I mean that before venturing your unsolicited opinions you should at least have something to show for it in the form of real world results.

I suggest you ask for advice from sucessful powerlifters instead of having opinions on their training. That way you can learn from people who have actually done it.

i do. who else right off the street could shoulder 315 for breathing squats?


I doubt you could even do half of that.
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MDieguez

Southbeach
Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion. It does help to have a clue before you open your mouth. You dont squat, deadlift or bench. This is fine but how the hell would you know how to advise those that do?
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Turpin

Powerlifters DO indeed isolate , just not your interpretation thereof SB.

For instance ; partial deadlifts allow for greater resistance in the last 3rd of the deadlift whilst lifts performed whilst standing on blocks/discs will strengthen the initial pull , partial bench press or close grip place more emphasis on the tricep , squatting from a start position of the low/parallel position upwards in a rack strengthens this part of the movement ( coming from the deep position ) , likewise squatting with chains places more resistance in the top half of the movement ... all of these variations isolate different musculature but allow the lifter to practice the competition movement.
Some powerlifters do use isolation exercise as you would advocate , but in general variation of a theme is the order of the day.

T.

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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Someone spent money to conclude that adding muscle to your frame is going to make you stronger? I hope they didn't spend much.

Every powerlifting routine used in all the major powerlifting gyms in the US, Westside, EliteFTS, Supertraining, Monster Garage Gym etc all do work outside of the 3 lifts to build muscle. Nothing new here.

Michael
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smanjh

Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.


Damn right. Unless I see a picture, I have to assume there is something he is hiding.

If his methods, for 20 years, got him to a point of reference where he is afraid to post a picture on a board to validate his hero's training beliefs, then I would be very afraid to follow said methods.
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southbeach

smanjh wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

Damn right. Unless I see a picture, I have to assume there is something he is hiding.

If his methods, for 20 years, got him to a point of reference where he is afraid to post a picture on a board to validate his hero's training beliefs, then I would be very afraid to follow said methods.


i'm hiding my shinny (IE lean) physique that's what i'm "hiding" lol

all you guys are 230+lbs you dwarf me. lol why do you want to see a skinny guy with avg genetics anyway?

smajn, I do what i do in part because i realized my "poor" genetics was not going to change so i made conscious decision to switch my emphasis a bit to staying lean yet muscular, and very fit.

At same time I cleaned up my diet to what I believe science tells me what is best to maintain health and logveity.

Some of you guys are real beasts and I respect that too. You, for instance obviously have great genetics. Steve (from what I can see) does also. Turpin is very lucky in that department too (not taking anything away from his keen sense of training)

So, i'll stick to what i am doing and discussing ideas with you guys. ok with you?
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MDieguez

Fine. Stick to what you know...which is NOT how powerlifters should train.
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smanjh

MDieguez wrote:
Fine. Stick to what you know...which is NOT how powerlifters should train.


Indeed. I have no problem with rational discussion, but the whole point here for most of us is to resemble a bodybuilder or get as close as we possibly can.

Giving up on yourself and taking up jogging is not really in the cards for everyone else. Being a vegan will not support the above goal.

The issue is with respect overall and earning the right to say something in a conclusive sense, which has yet to happen with SB.

Theory and ideas are one thing, but they must translate to real life.
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southbeach

smanjh wrote:
MDieguez wrote:
Fine. Stick to what you know...which is NOT how powerlifters should train.

Indeed. I have no problem with rational discussion, but the whole point here for most of us is to resemble a bodybuilder or get as close as we possibly can.

Giving up on yourself and taking up jogging is not really in the cards for everyone else. Being a vegan will not support the above goal.

The issue is with respect overall and earning the right to say something in a conclusive sense, which has yet to happen with SB.

Theory and ideas are one thing, but they must translate to real life.


Have you ever beat jay cutler for Mr O? are you alrger, stronger? if not then you have not earned the right to an opinion here, your opinion means nothing...but don't give up on Mr O....waste your life trying for it. in mean time i'll listen to jay (according to your logic)
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SteveHIT

What are you trying to say more volume = better results? ;)
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smanjh

southbeach wrote:
smanjh wrote:
MDieguez wrote:
Fine. Stick to what you know...which is NOT how powerlifters should train.

Indeed. I have no problem with rational discussion, but the whole point here for most of us is to resemble a bodybuilder or get as close as we possibly can.

Giving up on yourself and taking up jogging is not really in the cards for everyone else. Being a vegan will not support the above goal.

The issue is with respect overall and earning the right to say something in a conclusive sense, which has yet to happen with SB.

Theory and ideas are one thing, but they must translate to real life.

Have you ever beat jay cutler for Mr O? are you alrger, stronger? if not then you have not earned the right to an opinion here, your opinion means nothing...but don't give up on Mr O....waste your life trying for it. in mean time i'll listen to jay (according to your logic)


LOL, that is not the point at all.

Everyone has some delusional nutjob at their gym that can do his 1/16 of an inch bench press with 250 pounds and wears a wifebeater every day, despite the fact that it is the dead of winter.

Now, this guy loves to critique everyone, but no one listen and a few offer to kick his ass.

The routines and all that don't matter. Your way amounts to 'nothing to see', so why would you talk to anyone about progress?

Put another way, let's say you do have terrible genetics and were like 160 pounds and soft, but now your 200 pounds and ripped. Awesome job, talk away.

Do you see where I am coming from? Those who have not handed out a point of reference to their credentials do not act like experts or insult people outside of the trolls.

If you want to be taken seriously on a training board, you should have something to show for your efforts.
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Yes

southbeach wrote:
smanjh wrote:
Yes wrote:
I think you should earn the right to talk about how to build muscle and/or strength.

Damn right. Unless I see a picture, I have to assume there is something he is hiding.

If his methods, for 20 years, got him to a point of reference where he is afraid to post a picture on a board to validate his hero's training beliefs, then I would be very afraid to follow said methods.

i'm hiding my shinny (IE lean) physique that's what i'm "hiding" lol

all you guys are 230+lbs you dwarf me. lol why do you want to see a skinny guy with avg genetics anyway?

smajn, I do what i do in part because i realized my "poor" genetics was not going to change so i made conscious decision to switch my emphasis a bit to staying lean yet muscular, and very fit.

At same time I cleaned up my diet to what I believe science tells me what is best to maintain health and logveity.

Some of you guys are real beasts and I respect that too. You, for instance obviously have great genetics. Steve (from what I can see) does also. Turpin is very lucky in that department too (not taking anything away from his keen sense of training)

So, i'll stick to what i am doing and discussing ideas with you guys. ok with you?

You're the 6'7" 200lb guy, right? I seem to remember this is what you have claimed before.

If so, it means that you're still at a beginners level after... what, 20 years? Genetics is a poor excuse for that.

That could be remedied if you have actually trained others with great results. Have ever done that? Have you ever trained any avarage joes, powerlifters or bodybuilders?

Is there anyone who has ever used your advise with good results? I mean, a low protein, low fat, vegan diet, on restricted calories and focusing mainly on isolation work SSTF? Preferably drug-free. And I dont mean "sort of" following your advise.
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Yes

southbeach wrote:
smanjh wrote:
MDieguez wrote:
Fine. Stick to what you know...which is NOT how powerlifters should train.

Indeed. I have no problem with rational discussion, but the whole point here for most of us is to resemble a bodybuilder or get as close as we possibly can.

Giving up on yourself and taking up jogging is not really in the cards for everyone else. Being a vegan will not support the above goal.

The issue is with respect overall and earning the right to say something in a conclusive sense, which has yet to happen with SB.

Theory and ideas are one thing, but they must translate to real life.

Have you ever beat jay cutler for Mr O? are you alrger, stronger? if not then you have not earned the right to an opinion here, your opinion means nothing...but don't give up on Mr O....waste your life trying for it. in mean time i'll listen to jay (according to your logic)

You could probably learn a great deal from Jay Cutler, even when considering the drug abuse.
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SteveHIT

Yes wrote:
You could probably learn a great deal from Jay Cutler


Southbeach listen from 1 minute in ;)

http://www.youtube.com/...feature=related
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HeavyHitter32

SteveHIT wrote:
Yes wrote:
You could probably learn a great deal from Jay Cutler

Southbeach listen from 1 minute in ;)

http://www.youtube.com/...related


The squat police should be arriving anytime telling us how their leg press now makes their coffee each morning in addition to creating amazing size. ;)
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