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Vegan Bodybuilders - NY Times
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southbeach

db144 wrote:
String Bean:

As usual nice deflection. I'm not the one bragging about my greatness, you are. Just stop and be real for a change, I know its hard but try.

d


I'm not bragging about my greatness if anything i'm self-deprecating. Rarely do i throw my #'s out there. You crazy troll :)
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southbeach

I found this study - PMID: 19211817 very interesting. The main takeaway was that substituting PUFAs for SFA in the diet was cardio-protective, while, MUFAs for SFA was dramatically worse.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 May;89(5):1425-32. Epub 2009 Feb 11.
Major types of dietary fat and risk of coronary heart disease: a
pooled analysis of 11 cohort studies.
Jakobsen MU, O'Reilly EJ, Heitmann BL, Pereira MA, B?lter K, Fraser
GE, Goldbourt U, Hallmans G, Knekt P, Liu S, Pietinen P, Spiegelman D,
Stevens J, Virtamo J, Willett WC, Ascherio A.
Source
Research Unit for Dietary Studies at the Institute of Preventive
Medicine, Copenhagen University Hospital, Centre for Health and
Society, Copenhagen, Denmark.

Basically, the claim was that the MUFA was from animal fat which means that there were probably other substances in the animal fat sources which made it worse for CV health. These results are in humans and the size of the effect is HUGE. It's not a trivial difference. The amount of adverse outcomes in both cardiovascular events and deaths is enormously greater for MUFA even compared to carbohydrates.

I am especially careful with anything that may make things worse for CV health. Now, my MUFA sources are vegetarian rather than animal, but this still seems rather disturbing. Full text available through PubMed
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db144

SB:

If every thread you post on is rarely, I stand corrected.

d
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southbeach

db144 wrote:
SB:

If every thread you post on is rarely, I stand corrected.

d


The paper has three major findings.

1)Replacing saturated fat with monounsaturated fat made no difference.

2)Replacement of saturated fats with polyunsaturated fats resulted in a statistically significant 13% decline in cardiovascular events and a statistically significant 26% reduction in coronary deaths.

3)Replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate resulted in a marginally statistically significant 7% increase
cardiovascular events, and not-significant 4% reduction in coronary deaths.

hmmm, interesting findings..opinion? thoughts?

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southbeach


Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?
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kurtvf

What does this have to do with HIT????
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HeavyHitter32

southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?


I'm not going to do it yet again for you, but I pasted TONs and TONs of scientific research regarding the benefits of extra virgin olive oil for you a while back. It's also accepted by the American Heart Association and experts. However, you still continue to live in your vegan fantasy that all fat and protein is bad for you.
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db144

SB:

I'm not enabling your compulsions any longer. If you are incapable of being honest and/or discussing weight training you need to find another place to bother people. Your broken record diet monologue is tiresome. Your a runner who does recreational lifting and after 2 decades of training you have nothing to show for the effort. Its incredible that you have the audacity to tell others how to train.

d
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southbeach

what a bunch of morons ..its astonishing :O
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db144

Go away SB

d
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Tony Williams

If I ever again post something with the word "vegan" in the title, someone break my fingers.

Tony
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southbeach

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?

I'm not going to do it yet again for you, but I pasted TONs and TONs of scientific research regarding the benefits of extra virgin olive oil for you a while back. It's also accepted by the American Heart Association and experts. However, you still continue to live in your vegan fantasy that all fat and protein is bad for you.


Yes I saw those and read them. But why doesn't it work in Greece?
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garethit

southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?


Try doing the same thing with as many other countries as you are willing to, look at data including average chol. rates and sat fat consumption in different countries, you'll be in for quite a shock.
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db144

garehit:

You'll find SB isn't interested in facts, just his opinions. If you engage him in conversation you'll just become aggravated.

d
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southbeach

db144 wrote:
garehit:

You'll find SB isn't interested in facts, just his opinions. If you engage him in conversation you'll just become aggravated.

d


My opinion is forged from fact db. Not other way around like yours.
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southbeach

Just surfing around last few hours and came across a few interesting facts..

Scroll all way down to bottom of this page: http://www.okicent.org/study.h...

Take note of the chart found there depicting sex hormones of 70yr old Okinawan men vs American men.

70 yr old Ok men = 439
70 yr old Am men = 314

Substantially more DHEA found in aging Ok men compared to the American counterpart of similar age.

Often stated around the world wide web that a plant-based diet will knock sex hormones in the dirt. Ok men (& women) eat a plant-based diet. Just throwing out these things as fodder for interesting thought and discussion only. FWIW' sunday afternoon musings.. :)
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garethit

southbeach wrote:
Just surfing around last few hours and came across a few interesting facts..

Scroll all way down to bottom of this page: http://www.okicent.org/study.h...

Take note of the chart found there depicting sex hormones of 70yr old Okinawan men vs American men.

70 yr old Ok men = 439
70 yr old Am men = 314

Substantially more DHEA found in aging Ok men compared to the American counterpart of similar age.

Often stated around the world wide web that a plant-based diet will knock sex hormones in the dirt. Ok men (& women) eat a plant-based diet. Just throwing out these things as fodder for interesting thought and discussion only. FWIW' sunday afternoon musings.. :)


You failed to point out they also had higher estrogen levels than American men, I'm sure that was completely unintentional though ;-)
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southbeach

garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Just surfing around last few hours and came across a few interesting facts..

Scroll all way down to bottom of this page: http://www.okicent.org/study.h...

Take note of the chart found there depicting sex hormones of 70yr old Okinawan men vs American men.

70 yr old Ok men = 439
70 yr old Am men = 314

Substantially more DHEA found in aging Ok men compared to the American counterpart of similar age.

Often stated around the world wide web that a plant-based diet will knock sex hormones in the dirt. Ok men (& women) eat a plant-based diet. Just throwing out these things as fodder for interesting thought and discussion only. FWIW' sunday afternoon musings.. :)

You failed to point out they also had higher estrogen levels than American men, I'm sure that was completely unintentional though ;-)


No not really..

As Okinawans age, both sexes maintain remarkably higher levels of estrogen which may help protect against heart disease and osteoporosis.

Why you so afraid of a little estrogen. you have some in you too!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Tony Williams wrote:
If I ever again post something with the word "vegan" in the title, someone break my fingers.

Tony


==Scott==
I warned you, ha ha...
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

kurtvf wrote:
What does this have to do with HIT????


==Scott==
Actually it's HIVT,,, high intensity vegan talk,,ha ha...
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southbeach

garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?

Try doing the same thing with as many other countries as you are willing to, look at data including average chol. rates and sat fat consumption in different countries, you'll be in for quite a shock.


greece has off the chart levels of stroke..is it the OO?
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southbeach

A few fatalists here think that it's all genetics and family history well...

"In this study, even people with a family history of heart problems were able to have a low cardiovascular disease risk profile if they started living a healthy lifestyle when they were young," Liu said. "This supports the notion that lifestyle may play a more prominent role than genetics."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...20302132426.htm

AND


"Health behaviors can trump a lot of your genetics," said Donald Lloyd-Jones, M.D., chair and professor of preventive medicine at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and a staff cardiologist at Northwestern Memorial Hospital. "This research shows people have control over their heart health. The earlier they start making healthy choices, the more likely they are to maintain a low-risk profile for heart disease."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...01115151954.htm
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garethit

southbeach wrote:
garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?

Try doing the same thing with as many other countries as you are willing to, look at data including average chol. rates and sat fat consumption in different countries, you'll be in for quite a shock.

greece has off the chart levels of stroke..is it the OO?


Japan used to have high rates of stroke as well, until they increased their sat fat intake that is. At the same time their chol. levels rose to and guess what? Their heart disease rates fell as well. Another "paradox" for you southey :-)
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southbeach

garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?

Try doing the same thing with as many other countries as you are willing to, look at data including average chol. rates and sat fat consumption in different countries, you'll be in for quite a shock.

greece has off the chart levels of stroke..is it the OO?

Japan used to have high rates of stroke as well, until they increased their sat fat intake that is. At the same time their chol. levels rose to and guess what? Their heart disease rates fell as well. Another "paradox" for you southey :-)


That's just not true. If you are suggesting sat fat protects against stroke you are sadly mistaken. It's a well known well documented risk factor. Stop reading the fringe "science" and the hacks.
99.9% of med docs and experts agree that sat fat is a sig risk factor for stroke and CVD.
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garethit

southbeach wrote:
garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:
garethit wrote:
southbeach wrote:

Greece: 61.6 + 60.3 = 121.9
USA: 25.4 + 80.5 = 105.9


http://www.worldlifeexpectancy...


From the above noted site I took their death rates (per 100,000)
from stroke and CHD and added them together. Here is what I got, stroke first, CHD second and the combined total of the two last.

So where does the story about good greek cardiovascular health originate? And, especially, the story about olive oil being responsible for the imagined benefit?

Try doing the same thing with as many other countries as you are willing to, look at data including average chol. rates and sat fat consumption in different countries, you'll be in for quite a shock.

greece has off the chart levels of stroke..is it the OO?

Japan used to have high rates of stroke as well, until they increased their sat fat intake that is. At the same time their chol. levels rose to and guess what? Their heart disease rates fell as well. Another "paradox" for you southey :-)


That's just not true. If you are suggesting sat fat protects against stroke you are sadly mistaken. It's a well known well documented risk factor. Stop reading the fringe "science" and the hacks.
99.9% of med docs and experts agree that sat fat is a sig risk factor for stroke and CVD.


http://jama.ama-assn.org/...8/24/2145.short

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/12944100

I don't even know why I'm bothering to post these. No doubt you will refuse to except any evidence put before you that challenges your beliefs.

This stuff is not "fringe "science" and "99.9% of med docs" do not agree on this at all. Very low fat diets have repeatedly been shown to INCREASE the risk of stroke, a quick internet search will show many studies that back this up. No doubt as the resident expert on CV health you will debunk these studies.
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