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Travis Weigand

I'm posting this on behalf of the RenEx team:

One of the launching points for RenEx was the desire to finally clear the confusion about the misinformation that people had about the former iterations of the protocol. Specifically, we had seen (over the years) that people had abdicated their responsibility to the teachings of the protocol and seemed to pick and choose aspects of the protocol that suited fancy or need. At the top of the list of errors was the idea that we are simply asking people to "go slow" without considering the context of this simplistic edict. Moreover, this carried over to the premise upon which our machines are manufactured, especially with regards to resistance curves.

To try and better explain everything, we wrote extensive, elaborate, and all-encompasing articles that we have posted on the RenEx site. We have systematically broken down what must be understood with regards to our protocol and our equipment designs. We have illustrated examples, we've relayed our personal and client experiences and we have done our utmost to impress upon the readers that all is not as it seems when you are trying to create instruments to oppose muscle and joint function. The proper machine for a RenEx workout cannot and must not be used for another purpose any more than a lawnmower should be used as a scooter.

Unfortunately, you can only lead the horse to water...

The following post by Mr. Tim Ryan went up on a forum recently:


"To clear up any confusion regarding the Row machines at the HIT conference ... Dan mis-spoke when he stated that the RenEx Row was at the show. What was there was a MedX Row that had Ken Hutchins SuperSlow cam retrofit on it. This was compared against a stock, unmodified MedX Row, and a fully modified Precision Fitness Signature Series MedX Row.
The attached picture shows me performing Ken Hutchins modified MedX Row. Note that I am lifting the entire weight stack and am also able to easily hold the movement arm in the most contracted position with only one hand. No effort at all is needed to do this because Hutchin's cam falls off so radically and renders almost no resistance in this position. Many attendees at the conference performed the same feat I am doing in the picture with only their pinky finger -- even a pinky with one hand.

BTW, the resistance curve on the RenEx Row is just as ridiculous, if not more so, than Hutchin's version of the MedX. Anybody out there who thinks this is appropriate is welcome to it. As for me, I prefer to actually have resistance on the muscle and perform actual work, not take a nap at the end of each rep. Tim"


Alas, the only thing Mr Ryan demonstrates with this insolent commentary is that either he cannot read, cannot comprehend what he reads, or (most likely) did not ever actually read our accounts of why our resistance curves exist as they do.

I have stated repeatedly that the design of our machines encompasses the entire context of the fatigue continuum; that as a human being, the working subject does not possess infinite endurance to produce effort and apply strength. In fact, if his purpose is "exercise" and he intends to stimulate the structures, then the very moment he begins to exert, he is instantly and exponentially becoming weaker. This weakness is not linear but it is amplified and thus the equipment must oppose not only his strength but also his weakness and it must do this in a way that also accounts for the duration of the exercise, the number of repetitions, the variables of intensity relating to the finished position, and the weight load itself. No other machines, including Mr. Ryan's lauded Medx do this. In fact, on any other equipment, you must progressively break the rules of the protocol in order to perform the exercise on the machine.

I have said explicitly, again and again, that when all these variables coalesce, an advanced subject can literally only barely reach the finished position that Mr Ryan so astonishingly decries as a "radical falloff". In my last workout, on my RenEx compound row, the finished position was only accomplished four times. On the last two complete repetitions, it was almost impossible to achieve that final position and on the very last completed repetition, I required almost double the time of my positive phase to reach it; the entire time working with every last bit of my will and effort. When I finally did make it to the final rep's finished position, not only did it feel enormously heavy, but it was so "heavy" that it quickly overtook me and what ensued was a massively satisfying negative that I fought tooth and nail all the way down, which ultimately produced an unbelievable oxygen deficit and a swelling of my musculature like nothing I have ever experienced before.

Mr. Ryan's insulting tone informs his very thesis. Lifting the weight stack once to display the falloff ratio is completely outside of the context of a proper work set in the machine. It's akin to pulling a single bullet from a firearm's magazine and throwing it at someone to prove how innocuous a bullet is.

With this faulty, misinformed and scurrilous critique Mr. Ryan demonstrates more than just a confounding lack of understanding, he demonstrates dearth of character.


gus


PS. I will once again (third time now) lay out my challenge regarding our machines: Compare a RenEx workout on Renex machines to any other equipment and then let us know what you prefer. I personally challenge Mr. Ryan to come and try my compound row, under my instruction. I would love to see him hold the finished position with his pinky in a set supervised by me.
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Landau

Florida, USA

TraviS: Simple - Renex 10-10 - Results Otherwise
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Who is Gus?
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db144

Who cares?

Take it the RenEx website most here are tired of sales pitch and BS.

d
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HeavyHitter32

The RenEx spamming is getting very, very old. Enough of it already. These people never stop.
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db144

Gus is a 2nd generation disciple and tag along.

d
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jitterbug

Brian Johnston wrote:
Who is Gus?


Mr.Johnston he knows you-

"Gus Diamantopoulos's
career in Strength Training began in the mid 1990's when he first read the works of the late Mike Mentzer, famed bodybuilder and former Mr. Universe. Inspired by Mentzer's philosophical writings, Gus found himself enamoured by the practical implications of a training protocol that emphasized brains over brawn and effort over endurance. Fueled by the promise of reaching his muscular potential, Gus continued to investigate the subject of High Intensity Training and voraciously read anything he could find on the subject, especially the works of Arthur Jones, creator of Nautilus and MedX. Through an ad in a local fitness periodical, Gus discovered the IART, a rigorous personal training certification that was being operated by Brian D. Johnston out of North Bay Ontario. Johnston was affiliated with Mentzer at the time and was a prolific researcher, writer and educator. Gus shared Brian's passion for strength training and learned much from Johnston's erudite writing and voluminous knowledge on the subject. Gus's IART certification soon led to an elementary foray into the world of personal training. Operating out of a local gym, Gus began taking on clients from his full-time workplace (a film production company in Toronto). It wasn't too long before he realized that his interest and enthusiasm for working as a strength training instructor, rivalled his long-time devotion to film and television. However, it wasn't until he came across the ideas and writings of Ken Hutchins and The SuperSlow Exercise Guild that Gus would launch into a career change."


Edward
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Landau

Florida, USA

db144 wrote:
Gus is a 2nd generation disciple and tag along.

d


TRUE!
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Acerimmer1

" when you are trying to create instruments to oppose muscle and joint function."

Oppose joint function? Shall we just assume you didn't really mean that?
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Acerimmer1

db144 wrote:
Gus is a 2nd generation disciple and tag along.

d


Disciple? I thought this was a scientific method.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Unfortunately, my faith in Gus waned as of late. I have a client (she just returned after being in Toronto for a short while). Last year she was diagnosed with osteo, and based on my experience (clients with osteo and my training of them over years, and regular bone tests being done), I achieved the best results (reversed the damage and improved them) ONLY WITH negative-based training. Regular training was NOT enough, barely made a difference, as the loading was limited to what a person could lift, etc.

When my client left for Toronto, I gave her Gus' information, and informed Gus that she was to have negative-based training, whether alternate-negative (lift with both limbs and lower with one), negatives whereby the instructor helps to lift while the client lowers, or forced negatives (the instructor adds manual resistance). The point was, this was my client and she was on loan... and he would make money from my recommendation, but to train her relative to my recommendations (since I have experience in this area) and her medical NEEDS.

After a handful of sessions, Gus' sister was training this lady (apparently she knows what she's doing), but SS style regular lifting. My client came back around Xmas for a few sessions and informed me of what type of exercise she was getting. I informed my client to make it very clear that she was to get negative-based training, since lighter loads for 2 minute tension times would do her little good (by the way, my client is very active, as she owns and maintains a camping lodge with her husband and she is no stranger to work).

Then in early February she returned, and Gus' gym refused to do as I asked and continued with the same 6 or so exercises performed SS style. I cannot quote, but it was something along the lines of "we know what we're doing."

My client informed me that she felt like she was barely challenged and found the loading and effect from my training far superior... and is refusing to go back this coming winter. Now to find someone in Toronto who can serve her needs. If so, contact me.
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DownUnderLifter

Brian Johnston wrote:
I achieved the best results (reversed the damage and improved them) ONLY WITH negative-based training. Regular training was NOT enough, barely made a difference, as the loading was limited to what a person could lift, etc.


Hey Brian, what muscle mass increases did your client make while using only negative-based training?

Cheers

DUL
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tifhw

Louisiana, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Unfortunately, my faith in Gus waned as of late. I have a client (she just returned after being in Toronto for a short while). Last year she was diagnosed with osteo, and based on my experience (clients with osteo and my training of them over years, and regular bone tests being done), I achieved the best results (reversed the damage and improved them) ONLY WITH negative-based training. Regular training was NOT enough, barely made a difference, as the loading was limited to what a person could lift, etc.

When my client left for Toronto, I gave her Gus' information, and informed Gus that she was to have negative-based training, whether alternate-negative (lift with both limbs and lower with one), negatives whereby the instructor helps to lift while the client lowers, or forced negatives (the instructor adds manual resistance). The point was, this was my client and she was on loan... and he would make money from my recommendation, but to train her relative to my recommendations (since I have experience in this area) and her medical NEEDS.

After a handful of sessions, Gus' sister was training this lady (apparently she knows what she's doing), but SS style regular lifting. My client came back around Xmas for a few sessions and informed me of what type of exercise she was getting. I informed my client to make it very clear that she was to get negative-based training, since lighter loads for 2 minute tension times would do her little good (by the way, my client is very active, as she owns and maintains a camping lodge with her husband and she is no stranger to work).

Then in early February she returned, and Gus' gym refused to do as I asked and continued with the same 6 or so exercises performed SS style. I cannot quote, but it was something along the lines of "we know what we're doing."

My client informed me that she felt like she was barely challenged and found the loading and effect from my training far superior... and is refusing to go back this coming winter. Now to find someone in Toronto who can serve her needs. If so, contact me.



I think those guys over at RenEx made it clear that they don't use dumpers, human or otherwise.
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db144

Travis & EDX:

I'm rude because as soon as one RenEx sycophant fades another rises to take his places with the SAME EXACT SHTICK. I find this peculiar. This is a HIT forum specifically Dr.D's and no group has been more rude to both HIT and Dr.D than RenEx.

RenExers troll this forum and write half assed essays on the topics discussed here in some twisted attempt to prove themselves with words because they fail in deed and have so for decades.

Most recently they have repeatedly disparaged Dr.D and his involvement with X-Force. DR.D is a class act an overlooks this nonsense but it bother me and I speak up.

If that makes me rude and/or a troll, I couldn't care less.

d
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marcrph

Portugal

Travis Weigand wrote:
PS. I will once again (third time now) lay out my challenge regarding our machines: Compare a RenEx workout on Renex machines to any other equipment and then let us know what you prefer.


It is incumbent on REN EX to have FIRST challenged their own protocol and machines with standardized comparison tests.....BEFORE making claims or challenging others. Why has this not been done already???????

I seriously doubt REN EX could best/challenge a good kettlebell program for results.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Only one of the clients performed regular training once per week (after the next bone test, with about 3% improvement, I thought he could achieve more, which is why I resorted to the negative stuff), and during that time he made some physical changes, but at age 49 and being slight in development nothing incredible.

Since then he has trained with me for two years and his is thicker and more rugged... but really... I have no idea how much of a difference the negative stuff is compared to the regular stuff since I'm not also training his twin brother with regular stuff. Know what I mean?

And then there's this one woman who is more mesomorphic than most men I know, and she responded very well (very odd that someone so active and muscular was diagnosed with osteo). In any case, same with her... nothing to compare it to since she did not start with regular training, except for 1-2 break-in sessions on technique and breathing.

The point is: Yes, all of them, at all ages made/have made physical changes in muscular mass doing negative-based training, but I never measured that aspect since it was not a concern (bone density improvement was and is the goal). I never could produce any muscle on the protocol, but maybe that's me.

AS WELL, keep in mind, that every second workout I have them perform rest-pause training... lifting heavy loads for short sets (and short rests between) to give them a mental and physical break from the negative stuff. Maybe that is producing more in the muscle than anything. I'm uncertain. This is not a controlled experiment and I cannot validate an opinion when it comes to muscle mass increases.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Only one of the clients performed regular training once per week (after the next bone test, with about 3% improvement, I thought he could achieve more, which is why I resorted to the negative stuff), and during that time he made some physical changes, but at age 49 and being slight in development nothing incredible.

Since then he has trained with me for two years and his is thicker and more rugged... but really... I have no idea how much of a difference the negative stuff is compared to the regular stuff since I'm not also training his twin brother with regular stuff. Know what I mean?

And then there's this one woman who is more mesomorphic than most men I know, and she responded very well (very odd that someone so active and muscular was diagnosed with osteo). In any case, same with her... nothing to compare it to since she did not start with regular training, except for 1-2 break-in sessions on technique and breathing.

The point is: Yes, all of them, at all ages made/have made physical changes in muscular mass doing negative-based training, but I never measured that aspect since it was not a concern (bone density improvement was and is the goal). I never could produce any muscle on the protocol, but maybe that's me.

AS WELL, keep in mind, that every second workout I have them perform rest-pause training... lifting heavy loads for short sets (and short rests between) to give them a mental and physical break from the negative stuff. Maybe that is producing more in the muscle than anything. I'm uncertain. This is not a controlled experiment and I cannot validate an opinion when it comes to muscle mass increases.


Brian: Thanks for the update!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Travis, you talk of Tim Ryans insulting tone and all I can think of is the arrogant and insulting tone the team at REN-EX has displayed since day one of the appearance of REN-EX. I came to believe the REN-EX machines and protocol may be a very good way to go to build muscle, maybe one of the safest and best, but like many on here I got sick of the attitude displayed by the team as if everything else one might do to build muscle is crap and a waste of time.

The people at REN-EX brought this hostility on them selves and like it or not nothing will change that perception of REN-EX regardless of how good the REN-EX system is as long as the arrogant and nose in the air attitude continues.You guys put lot's of effort into designing a new system and machines so let's see if you can put half as much effort into not being such asses.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Seeing how much Tim Ryan has worked hand-on with these machines for the past 15-20 yrs, I'll take his 'insolent tone' over KH and the Gang's arrogant tone on the subject any day of the week.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Acerimmer1 wrote:
" when you are trying to create instruments to oppose muscle and joint function."

Oppose joint function? Shall we just assume you didn't really mean that?

LOL Ace! Well Tim certainly won't be able to budge the weightstack on those instruments ;)

I can see why team Ren-Ex is upset though; it sounds from the pinky assessment as though Ren-Ex has replaced Jones aggressive CAM with something too passive, easy to perform long winded repetitions with.

Couple that with Fred showing up the only muscular Ren-Ex athlete for not actually training that way and "Ren-Ex as the best way to build muscle" really starts to fray.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Acerimmer1 wrote:
" when you are trying to create instruments to oppose muscle and joint function."

Oppose joint function? Shall we just assume you didn't really mean that?
LOL Ace! Well Tim certainly won't be able to budge the weightstack on those instruments ;)


Tomislav wrote:
...Couple that with Fred showing up the only muscular Ren-Ex athlete for not actually training that way and "Ren-Ex as the best way to build muscle" really starts to fray.


STARTS to fray?!

Ropes that frayed would have snapped a long time ago --- even in an Indiana Jones movie.
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crazeeJZ

Renex is lacking a little in the thinking department. They have clearly stated renex machines are not for the way most people workout, and when some of those people try out the machines and see that the machines are indeed not for them, renex takes issue with the confirmation. LOL.

Reminds me of some arguments I've had with women.

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tifhw

Louisiana, USA

Tomislav wrote:
Acerimmer1 wrote:
" when you are trying to create instruments to oppose muscle and joint function."

Oppose joint function? Shall we just assume you didn't really mean that?
LOL Ace! Well Tim certainly won't be able to budge the weightstack on those instruments ;)

I can see why team Ren-Ex is upset though; it sounds from the pinky assessment as though Ren-Ex has replaced Jones aggressive CAM with something too passive, easy to perform long winded repetitions with.

Couple that with Fred showing up the only muscular Ren-Ex athlete for not actually training that way and "Ren-Ex as the best way to build muscle" really starts to fray.



The hairy guy?

He is not muscular and is not RenEx.

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jitterbug

crazeeJZ wrote:
Renex is lacking a little in the thinking department. They have clearly stated renex machines are not for the way most people workout, and when some of those people try out the machines and see that the machines are indeed not for them, renex takes issue with the confirmation. LOL.

Reminds me of some arguments I've had with women.




Mr. CrazzeJz,

It has been confirmed that the RenEx machines were not at this event hence they were not tested.

No one tried them.

Edward
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

jitterbug wrote:
crazeeJZ wrote:
Renex is lacking a little in the thinking department. They have clearly stated renex machines are not for the way most people workout, and when some of those people try out the machines and see that the machines are indeed not for them, renex takes issue with the confirmation. LOL.

Reminds me of some arguments I've had with women.




Mr. CrazzeJz,

It has been confirmed that the RenEx machines were not at this event hence they were not tested.

No one tried them.

Edward


Edward, it's noble of you to try and come to the defense of SuperSlow/Renex but save your keystrokes.

There are enough people that read and/or post on this board that know all about the feel of SuperSlow cams.

The old SS masters and SS Guild members truly believed, were almost as arrogant, and gave it their all for 5 plus years with ALL the SS retrofits and same protocol as today's.

While this type of radical falloff combined with light weights and long TUL's my have application for the sick and elderly it did not and will not bring athletes/bodybuilders to their genetic potential.

Believe me this was not for lack of trying.

Tim Ryan and Fred Hahn developed the equipment and protocol that works and is based on Arthur's original principles.
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