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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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Episteme

Pennsylvania, USA

I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Episteme wrote:
I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?


==Scott==
Yes, here's my suggestion! Ignore 90% of what people on this forum say and read a few Darden books.
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southbeach

Nice arm and shoulder! Your a little smooth but easy to see real size there. Great job!
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Episteme wrote:
I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?


Episteme,
great results! You didn't say how tall you are but I am guessing you are on the shorter side to have arms that large at 181 lbs.

Skull crushers are a great exercise to consider adding since you're only doing pressing movements, but gaining additional arm size at an advanced level is difficult without also going up considerably in weight.

I suggest bulking back to 200 lbs and either staying there until you get more solid at that weight or bulking up beyond 200 and then slowly reducing; IMO the latter approach also tends to drop muscle along with the fat and both will take a lot longer at your level than many are willing to wait.

Someone will be along presently to tell you you can actually build 18" arms while dropping another 20 lbs; use common sense.
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southbeach

Tomislav wrote:
Episteme wrote:
I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?


Episteme,
great results! You didn't say how tall you are but I am guessing you are on the shorter side to have arms that large at 181 lbs.

Skull crushers are a great exercise to consider adding since you're only doing pressing movements, but gaining additional arm size at an advanced level is difficult without also going up considerably in weight.

I suggest bulking back to 200 lbs and either staying there until you get more solid at that weight or bulking up beyond 200 and then slowly reducing; IMO the latter approach also tends to drop muscle along with the fat and both will take a lot longer at your level than many are willing to wait.

Someone will be along presently to tell you you can actually build 18" arms while dropping another 20 lbs; use common sense.


he says right there 5'7"
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Tomislav

New York, USA

southbeach wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
Episteme wrote:
I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?


Episteme,
great results! You didn't say how tall you are but I am guessing you are on the shorter side to have arms that large at 181 lbs.

Skull crushers are a great exercise to consider adding since you're only doing pressing movements, but gaining additional arm size at an advanced level is difficult without also going up considerably in weight.

I suggest bulking back to 200 lbs and either staying there until you get more solid at that weight or bulking up beyond 200 and then slowly reducing; IMO the latter approach also tends to drop muscle along with the fat and both will take a lot longer at your level than many are willing to wait.

Someone will be along presently to tell you you can actually build 18" arms while dropping another 20 lbs; use common sense.


he says right there 5'7"


Good spot sb, I skipped right over to arm size :)
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Hitit

I know many are obsessed with size, but I say appreciate what you have already accomplished. It is impressive enough.

Maybe you've reached you potential.

Good luck however.
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natemason5

Ontario, CAN

Great job on the training. I think if you were to keep your training the same, but modified your diet to lose some body fat, your arms would appear bigger, and look even better...along with everything else. You've got a lot of muscle there, maybe it's time to look at changing your diet if you want to "look" bigger.

Good luck.

Nate
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Hitit

Hitit wrote:
I know many are obsessed with size, but I say appreciate what you have already accomplished. It is impressive enough.

Maybe you've reached you potential.

Good luck however.


P.S. I'm curious, did your arms measure bigger when you were at your heavier weight?
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Yes, here's my suggestion! Ignore 90% of what people on this forum say and read a few Darden books.


Yeah, sure, one size fits all, right Scott?

"Mediocrity finds safety in standardization"
Oscar Wilde

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

kulitsa wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Yes, here's my suggestion! Ignore 90% of what people on this forum say and read a few Darden books.

Yeah, sure, one size fits all, right Scott?

"Mediocrity finds safety in standardization"
Oscar Wilde



===Scott==
What I'm saying is I wouldn't put much stock on anything most people on here say. There's a few like Turpin and the other Scott who are worth listening too but that group is very small.
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Just

Florida, USA

natemason5 wrote:
Great job on the training. I think if you were to keep your training the same, but modified your diet to lose some body fat, your arms would appear bigger, and look even better...along with everything else. You've got a lot of muscle there, maybe it's time to look at changing your diet if you want to "look" bigger.

Good luck.

Nate


Great advice Nate.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

entsminger wrote:

===Scott==
What I'm saying is I wouldn't put much stock on anything most people on here say. There's a few like Turpin and the other Scott who are worth listening too but that group is very small.


I would add two more people to this group, the always give terrific advice.

HDlifter
FBcoach
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tsg2513

Florida, USA

I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".
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Tomislav

New York, USA

tsg2513 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".


tsg,
excellent arm development! Your point begs the question, could you have lean gained up to a vascular arm like that at 175? Seems to me that's a temporal condition you achieve "on the way down" that is soon lost and can't be maintained. At least, that's been my experience.

Great to have your input on arm development! Seems to me you clearly have perspective in contrast to those athletes lacking in advanced arm development yet brimming with confident advice.
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traunsee

entsminger wrote:
Episteme wrote:
I used to post here a few years ago, took a hiatus, kept training.

I now weigh 181 lbs. at a height of 5'7. My upper arm, cold, measures exactly 17 inches.

I've lost 20 lbs. recently, as I was 200 lbs. at my heaviest. I was just too fat!

I'd love to keep getting bigger arms, but without having to stuff myself silly and get so fat. Any suggestions?

I currently do twice per week full body workouts. Basics, Trap-Bar, Bench press, Row or Chin-up, Barbell curls, Seated press. I've increased my volume a little to 3 work sets after 1 hard work set seemed to run stagnant.

Any suggestions on how to keep adding size?


==Scott==
Yes, here's my suggestion! Ignore 90% of what people on this forum say and read a few Darden books.


Happy Birthday Scott.

So the facts are, you have gained nothing do Ellington?s training, you gained on another program. No one here, I repeat, no one here has put up before and after photos that have gained on Ellington?s programs, and I am NOT talking of losing fat. And yes, many can gain 10 pounds or a little over on Ellington?s great programs, that are first class for beginners. But you state as you have gained nothing in the time you have been here, to do Ellington?s programs, how odd. If you had listened to many years ago, you would be there now, but for your age, and the multi sets, rep programs you have done all your live, you look pretty good.

Go look at every video on YouTube, of all the bodybuilders and other athletes lifting weights, go show me some that lift slow and for single sets, as people who have muscles and strength lift heaver and fast and for many sets, because the way the human body is made up, this is the only way to build muscles, well more that 10 or a little over pounds. Don?t you get, that you can?t lift heavy weights slow, that?s why you don?t grow and get strong, why I help I don?t know.

Traunsee
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tsg2513

Florida, USA

Tomislav wrote:
tsg2513 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".

tsg,
excellent arm development! Your point begs the question, could you have lean gained up to a vascular arm like that at 175? Seems to me that's a temporal condition you achieve "on the way down" that is soon lost and can't be maintained. At least, that's been my experience.

Great to have your input on arm development! Seems to me you clearly have perspective in contrast to those athletes lacking in advanced arm development yet brimming with confident advice.


Actually, my plan is to maintain this lean condition for the rest of my life
(or as long as my wife puts up with it...LOL). My recent blood work show that I am much healthier at this weight (blood pressure lowest in the past 10 years, Cholesterol at 148, resting pulse at 50, triglycerides are perfect). At this stage in my life, this is a much better option for me. By the way, I have always trained HIT/Low Volume, with strict form and without the help of chemicals.
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hdlifter

kulitsa wrote:
entsminger wrote:

===Scott==
What I'm saying is I wouldn't put much stock on anything most people on here say. There's a few like Turpin and the other Scott who are worth listening too but that group is very small.

I would add two more people to this group, the always give terrific advice.

HDlifter
FBcoach


Thanks for the kudos. I have no other agenda here other than sharing my findings to hopefully assist my fellow brothers-in-iron achieve their goals... through my 35 years of lifting. If my posts helps just one to better themselves, then it was well worth it.

On that note...the past few months I have focused on decline rack press. I take 1 rep at a time, a breath between. The change in my upper-body, chest and delts particularly, is obvious. I have grown far thicker.

Lastly, looking good Episteme, keep up the great work!
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traunsee

tsg2513 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".


Looking good, could we we a old training video of your please.

Traunsee
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Tomislav

New York, USA

tsg2513 wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
tsg2513 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".

tsg,
excellent arm development! Your point begs the question, could you have lean gained up to a vascular arm like that at 175? Seems to me that's a temporal condition you achieve "on the way down" that is soon lost and can't be maintained. At least, that's been my experience.

Great to have your input on arm development! Seems to me you clearly have perspective in contrast to those athletes lacking in advanced arm development yet brimming with confident advice.


Actually, my plan is to maintain this lean condition for the rest of my life
(or as long as my wife puts up with it...LOL). My recent blood work show that I am much healthier at this weight (blood pressure lowest in the past 10 years, Cholesterol at 148, resting pulse at 50, triglycerides are perfect). At this stage in my life, this is a much better option for me. By the way, I have always trained HIT/Low Volume, with strict form and without the help of chemicals.


tsg,
I also train low volume/consolidation style, agree it is highly effective.

Kudo's on being health conscious, but how do you know you will not again be inspired to bulk up to 200 or beyond?

There was an inspiring athlete who used to post here who continued bulking up pushing 60 and built very impressive arms.

The OP likewise wishes to build even bigger arms - what strategy would you recommend assuming this is the primary goal with natural training and no health concerns?
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

hdlifter wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
entsminger wrote:

===Scott==
What I'm saying is I wouldn't put much stock on anything most people on here say. There's a few like Turpin and the other Scott who are worth listening too but that group is very small.

I would add two more people to this group, the always give terrific advice.

HDlifter
FBcoach


Thanks for the kudos. I have no other agenda here other than sharing my findings to hopefully assist my fellow brothers-in-iron achieve their goals... through my 35 years of lifting. If my posts helps just one to better themselves, then it was well worth it.

On that note...the past few months I have focused on decline rack press. I take 1 rep at a time, a breath between. The change in my upper-body, chest and delts particularly, is obvious. I have grown far thicker.

Lastly, looking good Episteme, keep up the great work!


You are welcome Kevin.

Albert
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

tsg2513 wrote:
I don't mean to hijack your thread but I want to say that (IMO) you should focus on quality muscle. I remember a quote I read many years ago that went like this..."You Can't Flex Fat". It took me many years (I've been training for 35 years of my 49 years) to realize that gaining fat does not lead to gaining quality muscle. Lean, hard, vascular muscle creates the illusion of size. The attached photos are taken exactly 8 months apart. I believe my arms look significantly larger at 175lbs and 16.75" than they did at 210lbs at 18".


TSG,

That is a remarkable development. I do agree with your point as you arm @ 16.75 looks way better than @ 18.

We do have guys at the gym who probably have 18 to 18.5" with 50% of it being fat, as well as we have a few guys with 16.5 to 17.5 pure muscle and they look way bigger.

I wonder what does your routine look like? What worked for you?
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Episteme

Pennsylvania, USA

Thank you all to the replies. Sorry I couldn't get back to the thread sooner, I had a very busy work schedule yesterday.

When I was 200 lbs. two months ago, my largest arm measurement (cold) was 17 5/8.
As I said though, I was quite uncomfortable at that weight, given all the calories I had to take in; always bloated and fat.

At 181, I feel much more comfortable. However, I liked having arms approaching the 18 inch mark. I know, it's an obession with the tape/size, but everyone has to have goals, right?

I wonder if I'm approaching or have reached my lean mass max potential, since I am only 5'7 and my wrists measure 6.7 inches around.

I am life-time drug free, and the bigger I get, the more important diet seems to become. As a novice, any weight training seems to work. As I became more advanced, gains seemed to depend on caloric intake (assuming training was good).

I do perform heavy skull crushers occasionally (up to 130 lbs for 10 reps), but they really hurt my elbows if I do them too much. I've found that bench dips with a barbell across the lap can really hit the triceps well.

I have read some of Dr. Darden's books with a lot of enthusiasm, and I certainly have incorporated his concepts into my own routines. I've also read a lot of Arthur Jones, he certainly had a lot to offer as well.

While I'm not ready to start gaining weight again purposely, I think I'll take some of the advice here and try and improve my overall conditioning while still trying to eek some extra gains.

Given what Arthur Jones and Ellington Darden has had to say about arm measurements, I've reached a point of significant development. At my age, maybe making small improvments to overall conditioning is the healthier and more reasonable goal.


thanks again for all the suggestions.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Episteme wrote:
I do perform heavy skull crushers occasionally (up to 130 lbs for 10 reps), but they really hurt my elbows if I do them too much.

Episteme,
try consciously squeezing the bar as hard as you can for the entire set - I find this activates the lower triceps and the tendon complex around the elbow and prevents elbow pain.

Look forward to hearing about your progress.
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Episteme

Pennsylvania, USA

Tomislav wrote:
Episteme wrote:
I do perform heavy skull crushers occasionally (up to 130 lbs for 10 reps), but they really hurt my elbows if I do them too much.

Episteme,
try consciously squeezing the bar as hard as you can for the entire set - I find this activates the lower triceps and the tendon complex around the elbow and prevents elbow pain.

Look forward to hearing about your progress.


thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to try it out.

Perhaps it is evident from the photo, my triceps are very 'short'. I've therefore tried very hard to focus on getting the triceps as developed as possible.
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